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Thread: Did you see any reason to shoot ?

  1. #1
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    Did you see any reason to shoot ?


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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    I can think of some reasons. None of them good.

    I like how the gladiator that was on the spike strip left the cover of the car he was cowering behind to stand in the crossfire. Some of their training must involve a lobotomy.


    I got this from the comments:

    "STOP AND WE'LL SHOOT!!"

    I may be wrong, but I think I detected some low impulse control on the part of those highly trained and nerves of steel po-leece men. Killing frenzies don't differ much between the varieties of vicious predators, be they fish or beast.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

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  3. #3
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If suffering from adrenaline poisoning and 'roid rage, sure.
    If a reasonable human being, nope.

    Emergency blinkers on and rolling to a a slow stop?
    Sure looked like they were acting aggressively and about to initiate an explosive, dynamic action against all the police officers they were surrounded by. Was the ending to "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance" Kid playing on the in car entertainment center?

    The driver failed to pull over when an officer desired to stop him for using a cell phone.
    The fine for a first offense, including penalty assessments, is $76. A second offense is $190. However, although a violation of the handheld cell phone ban is a reportable offense and will appear on your driving record, it will not count as a point. (California uses a "point system" for moving violations. If you accumulate too many points, your insurance rates increase and you may lose your privilege to drive.)
    Punishing someone for using a cellphone, not letting them "get away" is so important that its easily worth their life in California.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-09-2014 at 10:51 PM.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    No, I saw no reeason to shoot, nor did I hear any reason to shoot.

    But then the video, and the sound quality of the video, totally sucked. No clear picture of the driver and if he, as suggested, yelled something it could not be heard on that clip.

    But I love the speculation that is taking place. While I have no special love for cops and have never believed they are "always right" I do have a deep and abiding love and desire for facts. The fact is that several cops shot a lot of rounds at the guy. There were no facts regarding why they did, or why they should not have done so.

    Well, that's not completely accurate. There was an assertion (not quite a fact) that the car resembled one involved in a situation somewhere else some time before this situation started.

    So how about somebody assemble some facts and report them so we can decide if there was or was not a reason to shoot, OK?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    He made dozens of officers spill coffee or drop donuts! Damn - that in itself is worthy of a death sentence in their minds.

    /sarcasm ....

    ETA - if the driver was not holding / pointing a gun or had his finger on the trigger of a NUKE etc..(insert 24 episode clip).

    Then it's going to be hard to explain the expenditure of bullets sent his way...
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 01-09-2014 at 11:19 PM.
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    Take a close look at the 19 second mark looks like a shot coming from the suspects vehicle exiting the passenger side window.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 01-09-2014 at 11:21 PM.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Take a close look at the 19 second mark looks like a shot coming from the suspects vehicle exiting the passenger side window.
    @19 second mark, there is "something" going on closer to the rear of the car, further back than the windows, possibly a round fired AT the car. Reports indicate four cops opened fire on the Saturn. The video doesn't reveal their locations to me.....that "something" at the rear of the right side of the Saturn may have been a round fired, and it could have been a GPS cannon mounted on the front of the commando cruiser tagging their target in case he got away again.

    I did pick up some some 'roid rage going on......check at the 28 second mark for the cop in the SUV behind the victim's car exit and go off on the cop shooting in his direction! I wouldn't be surprised if the SUV commando cruiser took some rounds. Witnesses said they heard around two dozen rounds fired, and there aren't that many rounds showing on the Saturn.

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    There's the driver, with life threatening gun shot wounds. All those cops standing around giving each other the Dutch Rudder and licking themselves clean after taking down the prey. Not one of them attending to the wounded suspect. Maybe they subscribe to the idea dead citizens are easier to deal with than live witnesses?
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 01-10-2014 at 12:08 AM.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No, I saw no reeason to shoot, nor did I hear any reason to shoot.

    But then the video, and the sound quality of the video, totally sucked. No clear picture of the driver and if he, as suggested, yelled something it could not be heard on that clip.

    But I love the speculation that is taking place. While I have no special love for cops and have never believed they are "always right" I do have a deep and abiding love and desire for facts. The fact is that several cops shot a lot of rounds at the guy. There were no facts regarding why they did, or why they should not have done so.

    Well, that's not completely accurate. There was an assertion (not quite a fact) that the car resembled one involved in a situation somewhere else some time before this situation started.

    So how about somebody assemble some facts and report them so we can decide if there was or was not a reason to shoot, OK?

    stay safe.
    I was trying to stay out of this and let someone else ask for facts. Your doing the right thing and wanting facts before freaking out and bashing. A real quick google search shows alot more then this wonderful "liveleak" video.

    http://www.10news.com/news/police-in...-diego01092014

    San Diego police say the pursuit began at about 8:30 a.m. in the 5400 block of Grape Street when a sergeant tried to stop a 40-year-old man in a 2002 two-door Saturn for talking on his cellphone while driving. As the sergeant started to get out of the police cruiser, the driver of the Saturn took off. Police say the suspect raced down residential streets at speeds of up to 60 mph.

    While chasing the Saturn sedan, police determined that it matched the description of one linked to a shooting that wounded two men in a Mountain View-area neighborhood Monday night.

    The vehicle came to a permanent stop on 41st Street at Hilltop Drive, and officers learned the suspect had a handgun in his possession.

    While the Saturn was stopped, police said the suspect raised the gun towards officers, and fearing for their safety and the safety of others, four SDPD officers opened fire at the suspect in the vehicle.

    According to police, the suspect's gun was found at the scene, along with what is believed to be controlled substances.

    According to a law enforcement source, when the driver circled back, the suspect drove by slowly and yelled something out the window. The windows were rolled up on the vehicle when the driver drove by a second time. That's when the source tells 10News that officers saw the driver had a gun and they opened fire.


    Bolded are the "facts" (maybe?) as we know it so far. The guy ran, endangering alot of people. I'm assuming the chase would have been called, especially if it was just for a cell phone, except it was the same car from a previous shooting where 2 were wounded. Then they see a gun. He points said gun at the officers. Officers shoot him. Officers find gun he was pointing/waving after hes shot.

    Sure, this is based on cops statements. How would the cops see the gun and know it was in the vehicle? ESP? I did see a separate article that said the female in the vehicle was let out and taken into custody. Apparently she told police the guy had a gun too. Now sure.... someone will probably say "well the girl told them he had a gun so they all agreed to murder him". Or..... the dude was involved in a separate shooting, he was pulled over for a cell phone violation, panicked, police figured out it was the same vehicle, the dude took off then refused to stop since he knew they were looking for him, dude then points/waves around the gun he has at police, they shoot him. That bolded section is my OPINION based on what is being reported by about half dozen different media outlets.

    I do like the Bash First find out facts later approach. It makes for a more lively story I guess. Plus it's easier to paint people with a preconception if you do it that way. It's heart breaking I know but there are citizens out there who are D Bags and try to hurt people. Like doing 60 in a neighborhood, possibly already having shot 2 other people prior to this, then waving gun at more people (police). It does happen. And please.... please hold the "common law rights" from this one. Just once.

    Again good on you Skidmark..

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    I had a feeling primus would show up in this thread.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No, I saw no reeason to shoot, nor did I hear any reason to shoot.

    But then the video, and the sound quality of the video, totally sucked. No clear picture of the driver and if he, as suggested, yelled something it could not be heard on that clip.

    But I love the speculation that is taking place. While I have no special love for cops and have never believed they are "always right" I do have a deep and abiding love and desire for facts. The fact is that several cops shot a lot of rounds at the guy. There were no facts regarding why they did, or why they should not have done so.

    Well, that's not completely accurate. There was an assertion (not quite a fact) that the car resembled one involved in a situation somewhere else some time before this situation started.

    So how about somebody assemble some facts and report them so we can decide if there was or was not a reason to shoot, OK?

    stay safe.

    Nobody made any speculations about the shooting in the four posts prior to yours. I articulated some observations about what I saw.....and made a speculation [lobotomy] regarding what would possess a "highly trained and nerve of steel" combat commando to step from cover into a crossfire situation while opening fire on a car that had his fellow officers as a backdrop. See the video at about the 28 second mark for this brain trust getting a new one ripped by the cop in the SUV behind the Saturn.

    No declarations of conclusion regarding the shoot. You have some problem with commentary as the story unfolds, I'm thinking the key word there is you. Forum topic progression isn't always as one likes, and acceptance of that, and others, might go a long ways towards a more pleasant experience here for you. And there's no better social lubricant than tolerance for those moments when the world just won't conform to your will.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 01-10-2014 at 12:31 AM.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  11. #11
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "...police determined that it matched the description of one linked to a shooting that wounded two men in a Mountain View-area neighborhood Monday night..."
    Like this "Chris Dormer" truck did?

    or this "Chris Dormer truck"?


    "...According to police, the suspect's gun was found at the scene..."
    Perhaps they meant "a" gun was found at the scene, but it's always possible it could be conclusively linked to the driver.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-10-2014 at 12:35 AM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    "...police determined that it matched the description of one linked to a shooting that wounded two men in a Mountain View-area neighborhood Monday night..."
    Like this "Chris Dormer" truck did?

    or this "Chris Dormer truck"?


    "...According to police, the suspect's gun was found at the scene..."
    Perhaps they meant "a" gun was found at the scene, but it's always possible it could be conclusively linked to the driver.
    And here we go with the completely unrelated things....

  13. #13
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    ~SNIPPED~

    "...According to police, the suspect's gun was found at the scene..."
    Perhaps they meant "a" gun was found at the scene, but it's always possible it could be conclusively linked to the driver.
    USUALLY when a suspect has a gun, police waive it around like it was won at the county fair. This time all we have is "allusions" to a gun. As far as guns at the scene, it appears there were plenty, some being used to shoot the car with the emergency flashers on and stopped.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  14. #14
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    And here we go with the completely unrelated things....
    Totally related. It goes to draw question to excuses of "matched the description of" doesn't it?

    Yes, yes it does.

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    This is Chris Dorner.

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    This is David Purdue, the driver of the black Honda Ridgeline cops mistook for Chris Dorner.

    I mean, they could pass for twins, right?
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 01-10-2014 at 12:56 AM.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I wonder how many reddish colored 2002 Saturns there are in California?

    It may indeed turn out, after the fact, that not only was there a gun, but that the driver had been involved in a shooting elsewhere and maybe even that his passenger was a known prostitute and there were drugs in the car, and his insurance was expired and he was late with child support, and that the vaccination for his pet's rabies shot was expired.



    But the "chase" was because he either didn't stop, or left before a stop could be completed for talking on a cellphone. They had the license number of the car, they knew where the registered driver lived. One single officer outside his driveway or even mailing him a letter would have sufficed.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I have a really hard time imagining the driver of a car moving that slow (and with emergency blinkers on!) raising a gun, or that anybody could have seen it through that windshield.

    I call BS.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I was trying to stay out of this and let someone else ask for facts. Your doing the right thing and wanting facts before freaking out and bashing. A real quick google search shows alot more then this wonderful "liveleak" video.

    http://www.10news.com/news/police-in...-diego01092014

    San Diego police say the pursuit began at about 8:30 a.m. in the 5400 block of Grape Street when a sergeant tried to stop a 40-year-old man in a 2002 two-door Saturn for talking on his cellphone while driving. As the sergeant started to get out of the police cruiser, the driver of the Saturn took off. Police say the suspect raced down residential streets at speeds of up to 60 mph.

    While chasing the Saturn sedan, police determined that it matched the description of one linked to a shooting that wounded two men in a Mountain View-area neighborhood Monday night.

    The vehicle came to a permanent stop on 41st Street at Hilltop Drive, and officers learned the suspect had a handgun in his possession.

    While the Saturn was stopped, police said the suspect raised the gun towards officers, and fearing for their safety and the safety of others, four SDPD officers opened fire at the suspect in the vehicle.

    According to police, the suspect's gun was found at the scene, along with what is believed to be controlled substances.

    According to a law enforcement source, when the driver circled back, the suspect drove by slowly and yelled something out the window. The windows were rolled up on the vehicle when the driver drove by a second time. That's when the source tells 10News that officers saw the driver had a gun and they opened fire.


    Bolded are the "facts" (maybe?) as we know it so far. The guy ran, endangering alot of people. I'm assuming the chase would have been called, especially if it was just for a cell phone, except it was the same car from a previous shooting where 2 were wounded. Then they see a gun. He points said gun at the officers. Officers shoot him. Officers find gun he was pointing/waving after hes shot.

    Sure, this is based on cops statements. How would the cops see the gun and know it was in the vehicle? ESP? I did see a separate article that said the female in the vehicle was let out and taken into custody. Apparently she told police the guy had a gun too. Now sure.... someone will probably say "well the girl told them he had a gun so they all agreed to murder him". Or..... the dude was involved in a separate shooting, he was pulled over for a cell phone violation, panicked, police figured out it was the same vehicle, the dude took off then refused to stop since he knew they were looking for him, dude then points/waves around the gun he has at police, they shoot him. That bolded section is my OPINION based on what is being reported by about half dozen different media outlets.

    I do like the Bash First find out facts later approach. It makes for a more lively story I guess. Plus it's easier to paint people with a preconception if you do it that way. It's heart breaking I know but there are citizens out there who are D Bags and try to hurt people. Like doing 60 in a neighborhood, possibly already having shot 2 other people prior to this, then waving gun at more people (police). It does happen. And please.... please hold the "common law rights" from this one. Just once.

    Again good on you Skidmark..
    Thank you for providing some facts.

    But I remind you that we were not asked to go digging for information beyond what was contained in the OP's lonked video.

    I blame the OP for either trying to bash cops, sensationalize the appropriate behavior of cops, or just failing to think it through before asking the question. Or any combination of those possibilities.

    Like they say on all the courtroom dramas: Just answer the question asked.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  18. #18
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    California, southern California at that.

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    Don't confuse some posters with facts. It real hurts their preconceived notions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    I blame the OP for either trying to bash cops, sensationalize the appropriate behavior of cops, or just failing to think it through before asking the question. Or any combination of those possibilities.
    always blame the messenger, lol.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Don't confuse some posters with facts. It real hurts their preconceived notions.
    What facts would that be?
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  22. #22
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    After circling around Encanto and Bay Terraces, he ran over spike strips while going west on Imperial Avenue. He returned to 41st Street, driving slowly on flattened right tires until he stopped a short distance south of Hilltop Drive, at 9:30 a.m. Police said he rolled up his driver’s window. Seconds later, police reported shots fired.
    Rolled up his window? Definitely an indication that he was about to unleash massive amounts of deadly gunfire.

    This guy probably was involved in the shooting, he probably had controlled substances in the car, he probably had a firearm. The lesson to be learned is "Don't run from the police for something minor, they'll assume you're running for something serious."
    Oh, and don't drive and talk on a cellphone in California unless it's wireless or you're a passenger.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-10-2014 at 04:14 PM.

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