Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Cobo preempted?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Wild Wild West Michigan
    Posts
    1,188

    Cobo preempted?

    Is Cobo Center preempted for event like the Car Show?

    Cobo Center is managed and operated by the Detroit Regional Convention Facility Authority (DRCFA). The five-member Authority Board consists of one representative from each of five government agencies – the City of Detroit, State of Michigan and the three metro-Detroit counties of Wayne, Oakland and Macomb.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    181
    I would say Cobo is, but the organizer of the event may not be. The whole private entity leasing public space thing.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932
    This question comes up every year just before the auto show.

    The prevailing thought seems to be that they likely are preempted but its yet to be litigated in court. It's possible although a poor argument in my opinion that by leasing the property the naias can prohibit firearms.

    In reality, past practice is that security is lazy and rarely wands anybody. When they do wand folks, they never go below the knees. I always dress nice and carry concealed in an ankle holster until I pass through security. Then I go into the restroom just inside the event and put my glock back into my iwb holster. I've never been wanded or searched.

    I don't think it's unlawful to carry there but if they knew you were carrying they would likely ask you to leave.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448

    Cobo preempted?

    2A lawyers I've talked to say: it'd be an interesting case, but the other side would likely prevail.

    That was 3 lawyers polled, all with the same opinion.
    Last edited by TheQ; 01-11-2014 at 11:21 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    2A lawyers I've talked to say: it'd be an interesting case, but the other side would likely prevail.

    That was 3 lawyers polled, all with the same opinion.
    The sad thing is: we now have a court decision on the books = CADL vs MOC which makes it clear that "authorities" are not free of preemption. Those who enforce the law clearly don't agree... go figure? Besides,why would anyone need a gun in peaceful, law and order town like Detroit?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny4a-oxOndo
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    181
    CADL v MOC indicates that Cobo is preempted, however, it does not indicate that a lessee is too. If Cobo were to hold it's own event, or if CADL were to hold an event at Cobo, then preemption would be in full effect.

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by bigt8261 View Post
    I would say Cobo is, but the organizer of the event may not be. The whole private entity leasing public space thing.
    This argument is so poor I don't know why it's brought up. If it had standing then every municipal building, and authority would rent/lease their buildings (ad infinitum) to a private person, for say, $1 and that person could ban guns. Would that hold up? Unlikely. Municipal property is municipal regardless of who might occupy it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-123-1102

    FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)

    Act 319 of 1990

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    bold added by me for emphasis...

    Ummm... wouldn't "a local unit of government" (an "authority?) be guilty of "regulate in any other manner" when signing a leasing contract with a private entity that has a gun ban in it?

    This wouldn't be a private property rights of the leasee issue... it would be an issue of the local unit of government violating MCL 123.1102 by signing the lease to begin with. Correct?

    Or are there some Federal or State laws that allow a unit of government to violate MCL123.1102?
    Last edited by Bikenut; 01-13-2014 at 04:10 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-123-1102

    FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)

    Act 319 of 1990

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    bold added by me for emphasis...

    Ummm... wouldn't "a local unit of government" (an "authority?) be guilty of "regulate in any other manner" when signing a leasing contract with a private entity that has a gun ban in it?

    This wouldn't be a private property rights of the lessee issue... it would be an issue of the local unit of government violating MCL 123.1102 by signing the lease to begin with. Correct?

    Or are there some Federal or State laws that allow a unit of government to violate MCL123.1102?
    This is what you COULD argue if you decide to test the preemption issue in regards to a lease of public property. I think you'd have a case...how strong of one is another question. Understand that there is no Michigan case law concerning the lease of public property and how that interacts with preemption. Although there are two strong firearm pre-preemption cases that would come into play in any argument, and there is the strong argument that Venator makes (above), would it be enough to win? I would like to think so, but we know how that can go.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •