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Thread: Calibers is Anti Gun

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    Calibers is Anti Gun

    After getting kicked out (Asked to leave) of Calibers for OCing I decided that it must be some kind of mistake.... Well after talking to a manger they informed me that Open Carry is NOT allowed in their stores and after lots of Facebook posts to them we thought that they were going to change their policy but this is what Calibers came up with as the New Official Store Policy.

    "After careful review, we have determined that the following policy is the most effective way to maintain a safe environment for all our staff and patrons.

    Our policy is as follows:

    The Safety of our employees and customers is our highest priority.
    NO uncased or un-holstered firearms are allowed in the lobby.
    If you need a case, please ask a Member of our Staff or a Range Officer for a loaner.
    Individuals may concealed carry with a valid concealed carry license.
    NO open carry, unless you are a commissioned law enforcement officer.
    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

    We would like to state that our store firearm policy, in no way, is an attempt to infringe an individualís right to keep and bear arms. Our firearm policy is simply asking our customers to exercise their right in a manner that we have determined to be the most effective way to maintain a safe environment.

    Thank you for all of your support and business. Without responsible gun owners like you, we would not exist."



    **** To me this is no different then the liberal law makers that want to take away our gun rights and those who punish everyone for something one or two people might have done.
    They also make it known that they think LEO's have higher Civil Rights then Citizens. As it is their right to make what ever rules they want inside their stores, I for one will never set foot in Calibers again, nor shall any of my friends or family. I ask that if any of you feel the same way, to put a post along with a review on their Facebook page. Bottom line is that Calibers is a gun store, a gun teaching center and a shooting range, yet they don't trust their customers with carrying a Holstered Open Carried Pistol. Please tell them how you feel and spread the word.

    The link where they posted their new store policy -
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

    Link to Calibers FaceBook page
    https://www.facebook.com/Calibers

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    Maybe they've just seen too many people do too many stupid and unsafe things.

    I do not interpret this policy as being anti-gun in any way whatsoever. I think some of you take things to a ridiculous extreme when you are faced with the reality that not everyone is in love with the idea of open carry.

    Get your CC license so you can carry in some places where open carry is not allowed, and stop crying about not being able to open carry. It's not the end of the world.

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    Your thread title is over sensationalized like many liberal news agencies. Calibers supports the second amendment, further stating that Concealed carry is allowed in stores and the decision to ban Open Carry is due to safety concerns caused by other open carriers so you may want to check your fire. Furthermore, harassing the store by posting on the page and rallying other Open Carry members to attack the store with poor reviews to trash their reputation only make you and the open carry movement look petty. Best of luck.

    -Damien

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    Really guys? This is a group for OC is it not? We are supposed to fight and stand up for OC Rights are we not? Also this is true Open Carry, Holstered pistol on a belt or thigh not a rifle.
    If they don't trust someone to OC then why the trust to CC? It's the same thing.
    Maybe they are just trying to sell more CCW classes? But saying to me or any customer that "hey I trust you with a gun but only if you put your shirt over it" is ridiculous.

    If you guys don't support Open Carry then that's fine but leave us that do to post our opinions without ridicule on an Open Carry site none the less.

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    Sounds like another business that makes their money off of the 2A but doesn't support the free exercise of it. There is so much fail in their policy and their statement that if I have to point it out to make it clear you still wouldn't understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redsilver2 View Post
    Really guys? This is a group for OC is it not? We are supposed to fight and stand up for OC Rights are we not? Also this is true Open Carry, Holstered pistol on a belt or thigh not a rifle.
    If they don't trust someone to OC then why the trust to CC? It's the same thing.
    Maybe they are just trying to sell more CCW classes? But saying to me or any customer that "hey I trust you with a gun but only if you put your shirt over it" is ridiculous.

    If you guys don't support Open Carry then that's fine but leave us that do to post our opinions without ridicule on an Open Carry site none the less.
    Because in order to open carry, you don't need to go through a background check. Anybody could throw a pistol in their waistband (with or without a holster) or sling a rifle on their shoulder and Open Carry and I'm sure Calibers had seen it all. Let me tell you a little about me Mr. 3 posts total here. I'm Damien. I was a member of the Open Carry movement since I moved here in 2010, and when the New Mexico Open Carry group started, only recently left after seeing some of the stupid stuff posted there. Go ahead and ask Travis, Lucky, Roger, Francisco, David, Joseph, Carlos Jr. and Sr., and Leverett who I am. They can confirm that I know my **** when it comes to the laws and that I'd been a part of the movement since the start. I stand by my claim that arranging attacks on the store's reviews is childish.

    -Damien
    Last edited by Damien; 01-12-2014 at 01:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Sounds like another business that makes their money off of the 2A but doesn't support the free exercise of it. There is so much fail in their policy and their statement that if I have to point it out to make it clear you still wouldn't understand.

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    Well said Beau!

    Quote Originally Posted by Damien View Post
    Because in order to open carry, you don't need to go through a background check. Anybody could throw a pistol in their waistband (with or without a holster) or sling a rifle on their shoulder and Open Carry and I'm sure Calibers had seen it all. Let me tell you a little about me Mr. 3 posts total here. I'm Damien. I was a member of the Open Carry movement since I moved here in 2010, and when the New Mexico Open Carry group started, only recently left after seeing some of the stupid stuff posted there. Go ahead and ask Travis, Lucky, Roger, Francisco, David, Joseph, Carlos Jr. and Sr., and Leverett know who I am. They can confirm that I know my **** when it comes to the laws and that I'd been a part of the movement since the start. I stand by my claim that arranging attacks on the store's reviews is childish.

    -Damien
    Damien, you seem to have something to prove and bashing someone because they haven't posted before isn't very adult like. The big thing here is that just because someone is Open Carrying doesn't mean they don't have a CCW not to mention that this site is solely for Open Carry. Also going through a Background check means nothing. Even LEO's with all their training have been known to get caught doing something negligent. Furthermore posting comments and reviews on the store is how change is made and it's how we show our displeasure with how a store's policy that serves the public sits with us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damien View Post
    Because in order to open carry, you don't need to go through a background check. Anybody could throw a pistol in their waistband (with or without a holster) or sling a rifle on their shoulder and Open Carry and I'm sure Calibers had seen it all.

    -Damien
    What does going through a background have to do with not allowing open carry?

    To my knowledge a BG check does automatically mean a person will act responsibly or be completely safe.

    A BG check doesn't even mean the person is not a criminal or that they do not have criminal intent. It just means they haven't been caught or have yet to commit a crime.

    The bottom line is open carry is no less safe than concealed carry. A cc'er is no less and no more safe than an oc'er and vice versa.

    Bad gun handling has nothing to do with method of carry.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    What does going through a background have to do with not allowing open carry?

    The bottom line is open carry is no less safe than concealed carry. A cc'er is no less and no more safe than an oc'er and vice versa.

    Bad gun handling has nothing to do with method of carry.
    There is certainly a difference in safety and in handling. In general, people who are CC'ing and know what they're doing never touch their guns. You never know the gun is there. Not so with OC'ing.

    I guess you have never read the many accounts on so many forums over the years about the stupid, unsafe things people have seen occur in gun stores- people in the stores as customers and workers. I myself have witnessed these things. I should not have to spell it out further to you. These things happen, all the time, because people in general are STUPID.

    I am sure the people at Caliber's have seen enough to put this policy into place. There is nothing "full of fail" about it. If they prevent an injury or unsafe situation, then the policy is a success and not a failure.

    Caliber's is not anti-gun, and to post that it is is simply hypocrisy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    There is certainly a difference in safety and in handling. In general, people who are CC'ing and know what they're doing never touch their guns. You never know the gun is there. Not so with OC'ing.

    I guess you have never read the many accounts on so many forums over the years about the stupid, unsafe things people have seen occur in gun stores- people in the stores as customers and workers. I myself have witnessed these things. I should not have to spell it out further to you. These things happen, all the time, because people in general are STUPID.

    I am sure the people at Caliber's have seen enough to put this policy into place. There is nothing "full of fail" about it. If they prevent an injury or unsafe situation, then the policy is a success and not a failure.

    Caliber's is not anti-gun, and to post that it is is simply hypocrisy.
    Thank you for restating the point I was making. There are stupid people in the world. They were that way before they started carrying a firearm. How they carry it doesn't make them any more or less stupid. The method of carry does not affect the level of their safety.

    Are you stating that not seeing a firearm somehow makes others more safe? It also seems that you're stating that an oc'er does not know what they are doing.

    Calling this business anti gun may be a stretch but they are definitely anti freedom. They make a policy in the name of safety that really has no bearing on safety. They do this for the simple fact that they do not agree with the method of carry. That is what it comes down to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Thank you for restating the point I was making. There are stupid people in the world. They were that way before they started carrying a firearm. How they carry it doesn't make them any more or less stupid. The method of carry does not affect the level of their safety.

    Are you stating that not seeing a firearm somehow makes others more safe? It also seems that you're stating that an oc'er does not know what they are doing.

    Calling this business anti gun may be a stretch but they are definitely anti freedom. They make a policy in the name of safety that really has no bearing on safety. They do this for the simple fact that they do not agree with the method of carry. That is what it comes down to.

    You actually missed every single point I made.

    Please back up your claim that their policy has nothing to do with safety. Do you know for a fact that they are against open carry, or is that just your opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    You actually missed every single point I made.

    Please back up your claim that their policy has nothing to do with safety. Do you know for a fact that they are against open carry, or is that just your opinion?
    My opinion based on the fact that there is no evidence to suggest that open carry is an unsafe act in and of itself. Please enlighten me how open carry makes them or their customers unsafe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    My opinion based on the fact that there is no evidence to suggest that open carry is an unsafe act in and of itself. Please enlighten me how open carry makes them or their customers unsafe.
    It doesn't matter what the evidence suggests or does not suggest. If they have made a policy as a private entity, that is their right. They have openly stated the intention behind the policy.

    I do not believe there always has to be a hidden agenda. I do not have a knee-jerk reaction that my rights are being infringed every time some place doesn't want to allow guns or open carry. There really is more to life than having to always have an open-carried gun with you.

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    I never said they didn't have the right to set their policy as they wish.
    They stated a reason for their policy and I question not only the validity of their reasoning but also the truth of it.

    I also never said it was an infringement on a person's rights. I said that a business that makes their profit off of the 2A but doesn't support people exercising it doesn't deserve our support. You don't have to agree with that stance at all. However you have yet to tell me how a person oc'ing poses a safety concern where a cc'er does not based solely on how they are carrying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    However you have yet to tell me how a person oc'ing poses a safety concern where a cc'er does not based solely on how they are carrying.
    I have never witnessed someone who is concealed touching or messing with their gun, in any way. That is what I meant when I said a cc'er who knows what they're doing. I did not imply that oc'ers do not know what they're doing.

    On the other hand, I have witnessed oc'ers with their hands on the gun many times. Resting their hands on the butt, grasping the grips, or adjusting their holster position.

    One of these things is safer than the other. If I never touch my concealed gun, there is no chance of something happening. If I'm futzing with a gun, or have my hand on it or near it, there is a chance, however small, that something will happen.

    That is a safety concern, based solely on method of carry.

    I have also witnessed oc'ers doing nothing of the sort, many times.

    If someone is oc'ing and never touches the gun, I would have no concern. Otherwise, I would and have had concern.

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    I agree that the policy is full of fail. They say there is no attempt to infringe. Lie.

    However, I support their right to make whatever policy they want.

    And, I support the right of anyone to call them out on the lie in their explanation. They are absolutely infringing (failing to fully respect) the right to self-defense. They would have done better to just come right out and say, "We've seen too many goofy gun handling incidents. We know CCers are at least backround checked. Therefore we feel we must infringe against OCers." Rather than try to fly an obvious falsehood.

    But, since they are trying to fly an obvious falsehood, it opens the door to question whether safety is their actual concern. I think valid a suspicion that they are actually just opposed to OC. We've seen plenty of that from the "lamestream" gun crowd.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    I posted this on an Open Carry site to point out a Store that doesn't support Our Rights and Freedoms of the Legal act of Open Carrying (A Gun Store of all places). Isn't that what this site is for?
    You don't have to Open Carry but if you are on here you should support the Act of Open Carry. If you don't, then why are you on here??

    The fact is that the store has every right to make what ever policy they want and like wise it's my right to speak out about it, spread the word about it and protest it. The store asking people to not Open Carry does cause people to go unarmed and causes them to leave their firearm in a vehicle where it can be stolen.

    In my eyes Calibers is being very anti-gun and they are asking people to leave their guns in the car or at home if you shop there. So it's my goal to spread the FACTS about their policy and people can decide for themselves if they really want to support a Gun Store that doesn't trust you with a gun.

    Plain and Simple. If people still support a place that feels this way then that is your choice but at the same time people also deserve to know the store policy and make their own choice and feel free to post on their site your displeasure.

    This is a Forum supporting Open Carry after all.

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    Aside from requiring the extra unnecessary legal involvement in a permit to conceal, there is something fundamentally wrong with banning Open Carry but saying that hidden firearms are okay. Indeed, concealed firearms are far more likely to be negligently handled than an exposed one.

    This is exactly what Freud was talking about when he said: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
    Last edited by MAC702; 01-12-2014 at 07:53 PM.
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    I fully support open carry. But that does not mean I oppose a private entity's right to restrict within their own property. A private entity enacting restrictions is not infringing on your right in any way. You do not have the right to carry on someone's private property. Repeat- you do not have the right to carry on someone's private property. Only your own.

    No one is forcing you to go to that store and disarm. No one is forcing you to be unable to conceal your weapon- only you are, if you choose not to.

    It is unfair to accuse a private entity of anything without proof. This is all speculation and therefore accusations about their true intentions are unfounded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Indeed, concealed firearms are far more likely to be negligently handled than an exposed one.
    This is directly the opposite of my experience. Please explain further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damien View Post
    Because in order to open carry, you don't need to go through a background check. Anybody could throw a pistol in their waistband (with or without a holster) or sling a rifle on their shoulder and Open Carry and I'm sure Calibers had seen it all. Let me tell you a little about me Mr. 3 posts total here. I'm Damien. I was a member of the Open Carry movement since I moved here in 2010, and when the New Mexico Open Carry group started, only recently left after seeing some of the stupid stuff posted there. Go ahead and ask Travis, Lucky, Roger, Francisco, David, Joseph, Carlos Jr. and Sr., and Leverett who I am. They can confirm that I know my **** when it comes to the laws and that I'd been a part of the movement since the start. I stand by my claim that arranging attacks on the store's reviews is childish.

    -Damien
    Working a gun shop and range many years I have seen the things stupid people try in a shop. Damien is right all you have to do to OC is carry. No one instructed you or qualified you to carry. Theres no test and no education on laws or carry unless you seek it. I'm not saying we need to get certified to carry but CC does have a minimum of standards required to do so. Also Calibers is a business with INSURANCE that has liabilities and insurance requirements that could be even outside the laws. So to again for Calibers request to not OC could be a liability issue not a company decision. We don't know Calibers extent of insurance nor is it our business. But to say Calibers is anti gun and lets stop shopping there is insane. We need every gun friendly business we can garner. Another thing is if we abuse our privilege to carry it could be placed in danger. Just because we can do something doesn't always mean its right. As for Damien I can say the guy knows his stuff and has an extensive background on laws and guns and has been a voice of reason. And if you think of it theres a few gun shops around that don't allow any type of carry in their stores yet we still shop there. There is no big deal or wrong going on.
    Last edited by awnuts; 02-11-2014 at 08:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awnuts View Post
    Working a gun shop and range many years I have seen the things stupid people try in a shop. Damien is right all you have to do to OC is carry. No one instructed you or qualified you to carry. Theres no test and no education on laws or carry unless you seek it. I'm not saying we need to get certified to carry but CC does have a minimum of standards required to do so. Also Calibers is a business with INSURANCE that has liabilities and insurance requirements that could be even outside the laws. So to again for Calibers request to not OC could be a liability issue not a company decision. We don't know Calibers extent of insurance nor is it our business. But to say Calibers is anti gun and lets stop shopping there is insane. We need every gun friendly business we can garner. Another thing is if we abuse our privilege to carry it could be placed in danger. Just because we can do something doesn't always mean its right. As for Damien I can say the guy knows his stuff and has an extensive background on laws and guns and has been a voice of reason. And if you think of it theres a few gun shops around that don't allow any type of carry in their stores yet we still shop there. There is no big deal or wrong going on.
    Which explains why we never see guns in purses or pockets going off, or guns hanging on hooks in a bathroom, or _________.

    Concealers are probably more likely to do stupid stuff.

    The minimum "standards" to carry in any mode are not the issue. You can't legislate stupid.

    The biggest problem is that "gun" is a dirty word, so that carriers are left on their own to get an education and ostracized while young if they want it. If the education started with gun safety in elementary schools, and progressed from there, problems would be virtually eliminated in a half-generation, because it is the ignorance of guns that has gotten the problem to where it is now.

    Do you really think carrying a gun should be a privilege? It may be overly legislated, but you can't succumb to their line of thinking. Carrying a firearm is a right.

    Stores obviously have a CHOICE of insurance plans. Many stores do not use insurance as an excuse. No need to make excuses for those who do. They deserve the consequences of their choices.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-11-2014 at 09:02 PM.
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    solve the problem by taking your money $$$$ to Peterson's and do your practice out by the aeroport at shooting range park.

    Ron's used to have quite the supply of firearms priced reasonably. Only problem with shooting range park is it is an outdoor range but it also is priced fairly and the staff is friendly.

    works well here in Goldsboro as WT's the largest firearm dealer w/indoor range found out those who care and carry do not frequent their store due to the HUGE sign by the door stating no loaded weapons allowed. oh except for LEs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Which explains why we never see guns in purses or pockets going off, or guns hanging on hooks in a bathroom, or _________.

    Concealers are probably more likely to do stupid stuff.

    The minimum "standards" to carry in any mode are not the issue. You can't legislate stupid.

    The biggest problem is that "gun" is a dirty word, so that carriers are left on their own to get an education and ostracized while young if they want it. If the education started with gun safety in elementary schools, and progressed from there, problems would be virtually eliminated in a half-generation, because it is the ignorance of guns that has gotten the problem to where it is now.

    Do you really think carrying a gun should be a privilege? It may be overly legislated, but you can't succumb to their line of thinking. Carrying a firearm is a right.

    Stores obviously have a CHOICE of insurance plans. Many stores do not use insurance as an excuse. No need to make excuses for those who do. They deserve the consequences of their choices.
    Well said MAC702! I feel like I've gone to a LIBERAL ANTI GUN Forum or maybe even a CCW Forum..... NOT a Forum JUST FOR OPEN CARRY.... Good lord, why are these other people even on here! And NO it's not an insurance reason that Calibers gave for a reason. They said it's because of something someone did in the past. Punish everyone for something 1 or 2 idiots did. Calibers can rot for all I care. They will sell you a gun but they don't trust you to carry one. And just because someone has a CCW doesn't make them any safer then the next guy. The class is nothing but teaching the Zillion laws that you have to follow anyhow. Does ANYONE actuality even fail the class???

    Any how ..... I'm happy to write Calibers off and tell them off. Along with everyone I know and talk too. To each their own...
    Last edited by redsilver2; 02-12-2014 at 03:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redsilver2 View Post
    Well said MAC702! I feel like I've gone to a LIBERAL ANTI GUN Forum or maybe even a CCW Forum..... NOT a Forum JUST FOR OPEN CARRY.... Good lord, why are these other people even on here! And NO it's not an insurance reason that Calibers gave for a reason. They said it's because of something someone did in the past. Punish everyone for something 1 or 2 idiots did. Calibers can rot for all I care. They will sell you a gun but they don't trust you to carry one. And just because someone has a CCW doesn't make them any safer then the next guy. The class is nothing but teaching the Zillion laws that you have to follow anyhow. Does ANYONE actuality even fail the class???

    Any how ..... I'm happy to write Calibers off and tell them off. Along with everyone I know and talk too. To each their own...
    You know for a fact Calibers insurance policy? And yes I was in a class where 9 people went and only two passed. So it does happen. And its not a punishment if you cant bring a gun in a store. There are plenty of places we cant carry and I still do business with. Its not the end of the world if you have to disarm for a few minutes. You do realize that anyone carrying a gun does not make you any better than a non carrying person? We have to coexist and lead by example to the non carrying public. We are still a minority in the scheme of things. If you worked the other side of a gun counter you wouldn't be screaming. I have and understand where the policy comes from. I utilize both forms of carry to suit my day and where I plan on being. If you really feel you cant live on this earth without a gun than I suggest getting a ccw also. This forum is about open carry but its also a resource for all information related to open carry and even as a ccw holder and user I still support open carry because its a part of the overall aspect of using a gun. I also support all forms of shooting and disciplines. Learn to express your efforts into teaching and welcoming new people into our world, its more fulfilling than looking for something wrong. And good luck finding a liberal around here.

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