Calibers is Anti Gun

After getting kicked out (Asked to leave) of Calibers for OCing I decided that it must be some kind of mistake.... Well after talking to a manger they informed me that Open Carry is NOT allowed in their stores and after lots of Facebook posts to them we thought that they were going to change their policy but this is what Calibers came up with as the New Official Store Policy.

"After careful review, we have determined that the following policy is the most effective way to maintain a safe environment for all our staff and patrons.

Our policy is as follows:

The Safety of our employees and customers is our highest priority.
NO uncased or un-holstered firearms are allowed in the lobby.
If you need a case, please ask a Member of our Staff or a Range Officer for a loaner.
Individuals may concealed carry with a valid concealed carry license.
NO open carry, unless you are a commissioned law enforcement officer.
We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

We would like to state that our store firearm policy, in no way, is an attempt to infringe an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. Our firearm policy is simply asking our customers to exercise their right in a manner that we have determined to be the most effective way to maintain a safe environment.

Thank you for all of your support and business. Without responsible gun owners like you, we would not exist."



**** To me this is no different then the liberal law makers that want to take away our gun rights and those who punish everyone for something one or two people might have done.
They also make it known that they think LEO's have higher Civil Rights then Citizens. As it is their right to make what ever rules they want inside their stores, I for one will never set foot in Calibers again, nor shall any of my friends or family. I ask that if any of you feel the same way, to put a post along with a review on their Facebook page. Bottom line is that Calibers is a gun store, a gun teaching center and a shooting range, yet they don't trust their customers with carrying a Holstered Open Carried Pistol. Please tell them how you feel and spread the word.

The link where they posted their new store policy -
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0761884895.167457.160565214895&type=1&theater

Link to Calibers FaceBook page
https://www.facebook.com/Calibers

Maybe they've just seen too many people do too many stupid and unsafe things.

I do not interpret this policy as being anti-gun in any way whatsoever. I think some of you take things to a ridiculous extreme when you are faced with the reality that not everyone is in love with the idea of open carry.

Get your CC license so you can carry in some places where open carry is not allowed, and stop crying about not being able to open carry. It's not the end of the world.

Your thread title is over sensationalized like many liberal news agencies. Calibers supports the second amendment, further stating that Concealed carry is allowed in stores and the decision to ban Open Carry is due to safety concerns caused by other open carriers so you may want to check your fire. Furthermore, harassing the store by posting on the page and rallying other Open Carry members to attack the store with poor reviews to trash their reputation only make you and the open carry movement look petty. Best of luck.

-Damien

Really guys? This is a group for OC is it not? We are supposed to fight and stand up for OC Rights are we not? Also this is true Open Carry, Holstered pistol on a belt or thigh not a rifle.
If they don't trust someone to OC then why the trust to CC? It's the same thing.
Maybe they are just trying to sell more CCW classes? But saying to me or any customer that "hey I trust you with a gun but only if you put your shirt over it" is ridiculous.

If you guys don't support Open Carry then that's fine but leave us that do to post our opinions without ridicule on an Open Carry site none the less.

Sounds like another business that makes their money off of the 2A but doesn't support the free exercise of it. There is so much fail in their policy and their statement that if I have to point it out to make it clear you still wouldn't understand.

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redsilver2 said:

Really guys? This is a group for OC is it not? We are supposed to fight and stand up for OC Rights are we not? Also this is true Open Carry, Holstered pistol on a belt or thigh not a rifle.
If they don't trust someone to OC then why the trust to CC? It's the same thing.
Maybe they are just trying to sell more CCW classes? But saying to me or any customer that "hey I trust you with a gun but only if you put your shirt over it" is ridiculous.

If you guys don't support Open Carry then that's fine but leave us that do to post our opinions without ridicule on an Open Carry site none the less.

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Because in order to open carry, you don't need to go through a background check. Anybody could throw a pistol in their waistband (with or without a holster) or sling a rifle on their shoulder and Open Carry and I'm sure Calibers had seen it all. Let me tell you a little about me Mr. 3 posts total here. I'm Damien. I was a member of the Open Carry movement since I moved here in 2010, and when the New Mexico Open Carry group started, only recently left after seeing some of the stupid stuff posted there. Go ahead and ask Travis, Lucky, Roger, Francisco, David, Joseph, Carlos Jr. and Sr., and Leverett who I am. They can confirm that I know my **** when it comes to the laws and that I'd been a part of the movement since the start. I stand by my claim that arranging attacks on the store's reviews is childish.

-Damien

Beau said:

Sounds like another business that makes their money off of the 2A but doesn't support the free exercise of it. There is so much fail in their policy and their statement that if I have to point it out to make it clear you still wouldn't understand.

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Well said Beau!

Damien said:

Because in order to open carry, you don't need to go through a background check. Anybody could throw a pistol in their waistband (with or without a holster) or sling a rifle on their shoulder and Open Carry and I'm sure Calibers had seen it all. Let me tell you a little about me Mr. 3 posts total here. I'm Damien. I was a member of the Open Carry movement since I moved here in 2010, and when the New Mexico Open Carry group started, only recently left after seeing some of the stupid stuff posted there. Go ahead and ask Travis, Lucky, Roger, Francisco, David, Joseph, Carlos Jr. and Sr., and Leverett know who I am. They can confirm that I know my **** when it comes to the laws and that I'd been a part of the movement since the start. I stand by my claim that arranging attacks on the store's reviews is childish.

-Damien

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Damien, you seem to have something to prove and bashing someone because they haven't posted before isn't very adult like. The big thing here is that just because someone is Open Carrying doesn't mean they don't have a CCW not to mention that this site is solely for Open Carry. Also going through a Background check means nothing. Even LEO's with all their training have been known to get caught doing something negligent. Furthermore posting comments and reviews on the store is how change is made and it's how we show our displeasure with how a store's policy that serves the public sits with us.

Damien said:

Because in order to open carry, you don't need to go through a background check. Anybody could throw a pistol in their waistband (with or without a holster) or sling a rifle on their shoulder and Open Carry and I'm sure Calibers had seen it all.

-Damien

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What does going through a background have to do with not allowing open carry?

To my knowledge a BG check does automatically mean a person will act responsibly or be completely safe.

A BG check doesn't even mean the person is not a criminal or that they do not have criminal intent. It just means they haven't been caught or have yet to commit a crime.

The bottom line is open carry is no less safe than concealed carry. A cc'er is no less and no more safe than an oc'er and vice versa.

Bad gun handling has nothing to do with method of carry.



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Beau said:

What does going through a background have to do with not allowing open carry?

The bottom line is open carry is no less safe than concealed carry. A cc'er is no less and no more safe than an oc'er and vice versa.

Bad gun handling has nothing to do with method of carry.

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There is certainly a difference in safety and in handling. In general, people who are CC'ing and know what they're doing never touch their guns. You never know the gun is there. Not so with OC'ing.

I guess you have never read the many accounts on so many forums over the years about the stupid, unsafe things people have seen occur in gun stores- people in the stores as customers and workers. I myself have witnessed these things. I should not have to spell it out further to you. These things happen, all the time, because people in general are STUPID.

I am sure the people at Caliber's have seen enough to put this policy into place. There is nothing "full of fail" about it. If they prevent an injury or unsafe situation, then the policy is a success and not a failure.

Caliber's is not anti-gun, and to post that it is is simply hypocrisy.

AH.74 said:

There is certainly a difference in safety and in handling. In general, people who are CC'ing and know what they're doing never touch their guns. You never know the gun is there. Not so with OC'ing.

I guess you have never read the many accounts on so many forums over the years about the stupid, unsafe things people have seen occur in gun stores- people in the stores as customers and workers. I myself have witnessed these things. I should not have to spell it out further to you. These things happen, all the time, because people in general are STUPID.

I am sure the people at Caliber's have seen enough to put this policy into place. There is nothing "full of fail" about it. If they prevent an injury or unsafe situation, then the policy is a success and not a failure.

Caliber's is not anti-gun, and to post that it is is simply hypocrisy.

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Thank you for restating the point I was making. There are stupid people in the world. They were that way before they started carrying a firearm. How they carry it doesn't make them any more or less stupid. The method of carry does not affect the level of their safety.

Are you stating that not seeing a firearm somehow makes others more safe? It also seems that you're stating that an oc'er does not know what they are doing.

Calling this business anti gun may be a stretch but they are definitely anti freedom. They make a policy in the name of safety that really has no bearing on safety. They do this for the simple fact that they do not agree with the method of carry. That is what it comes down to.

Beau said:

Thank you for restating the point I was making. There are stupid people in the world. They were that way before they started carrying a firearm. How they carry it doesn't make them any more or less stupid. The method of carry does not affect the level of their safety.

Are you stating that not seeing a firearm somehow makes others more safe? It also seems that you're stating that an oc'er does not know what they are doing.

Calling this business anti gun may be a stretch but they are definitely anti freedom. They make a policy in the name of safety that really has no bearing on safety. They do this for the simple fact that they do not agree with the method of carry. That is what it comes down to.

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You actually missed every single point I made.

Please back up your claim that their policy has nothing to do with safety. Do you know for a fact that they are against open carry, or is that just your opinion?

AH.74 said:

You actually missed every single point I made.

Please back up your claim that their policy has nothing to do with safety. Do you know for a fact that they are against open carry, or is that just your opinion?

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My opinion based on the fact that there is no evidence to suggest that open carry is an unsafe act in and of itself. Please enlighten me how open carry makes them or their customers unsafe.

Beau said:

My opinion based on the fact that there is no evidence to suggest that open carry is an unsafe act in and of itself. Please enlighten me how open carry makes them or their customers unsafe.

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It doesn't matter what the evidence suggests or does not suggest. If they have made a policy as a private entity, that is their right. They have openly stated the intention behind the policy.

I do not believe there always has to be a hidden agenda. I do not have a knee-jerk reaction that my rights are being infringed every time some place doesn't want to allow guns or open carry. There really is more to life than having to always have an open-carried gun with you.

I never said they didn't have the right to set their policy as they wish.
They stated a reason for their policy and I question not only the validity of their reasoning but also the truth of it.

I also never said it was an infringement on a person's rights. I said that a business that makes their profit off of the 2A but doesn't support people exercising it doesn't deserve our support. You don't have to agree with that stance at all. However you have yet to tell me how a person oc'ing poses a safety concern where a cc'er does not based solely on how they are carrying.

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Beau said:

However you have yet to tell me how a person oc'ing poses a safety concern where a cc'er does not based solely on how they are carrying.

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I have never witnessed someone who is concealed touching or messing with their gun, in any way. That is what I meant when I said a cc'er who knows what they're doing. I did not imply that oc'ers do not know what they're doing.

On the other hand, I have witnessed oc'ers with their hands on the gun many times. Resting their hands on the butt, grasping the grips, or adjusting their holster position.

One of these things is safer than the other. If I never touch my concealed gun, there is no chance of something happening. If I'm futzing with a gun, or have my hand on it or near it, there is a chance, however small, that something will happen.

That is a safety concern, based solely on method of carry.

I have also witnessed oc'ers doing nothing of the sort, many times.

If someone is oc'ing and never touches the gun, I would have no concern. Otherwise, I would and have had concern.

I agree that the policy is full of fail. They say there is no attempt to infringe. Lie.

However, I support their right to make whatever policy they want.

And, I support the right of anyone to call them out on the lie in their explanation. They are absolutely infringing (failing to fully respect) the right to self-defense. They would have done better to just come right out and say, "We've seen too many goofy gun handling incidents. We know CCers are at least backround checked. Therefore we feel we must infringe against OCers." Rather than try to fly an obvious falsehood.

But, since they are trying to fly an obvious falsehood, it opens the door to question whether safety is their actual concern. I think valid a suspicion that they are actually just opposed to OC. We've seen plenty of that from the "lamestream" gun crowd.

I posted this on an Open Carry site to point out a Store that doesn't support Our Rights and Freedoms of the Legal act of Open Carrying (A Gun Store of all places). Isn't that what this site is for?
You don't have to Open Carry but if you are on here you should support the Act of Open Carry. If you don't, then why are you on here??

The fact is that the store has every right to make what ever policy they want and like wise it's my right to speak out about it, spread the word about it and protest it. The store asking people to not Open Carry does cause people to go unarmed and causes them to leave their firearm in a vehicle where it can be stolen.

In my eyes Calibers is being very anti-gun and they are asking people to leave their guns in the car or at home if you shop there. So it's my goal to spread the FACTS about their policy and people can decide for themselves if they really want to support a Gun Store that doesn't trust you with a gun.

Plain and Simple. If people still support a place that feels this way then that is your choice but at the same time people also deserve to know the store policy and make their own choice and feel free to post on their site your displeasure.

This is a Forum supporting Open Carry after all.

Aside from requiring the extra unnecessary legal involvement in a permit to conceal, there is something fundamentally wrong with banning Open Carry but saying that hidden firearms are okay. Indeed, concealed firearms are far more likely to be negligently handled than an exposed one.

This is exactly what Freud was talking about when he said: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

I fully support open carry. But that does not mean I oppose a private entity's right to restrict within their own property. A private entity enacting restrictions is not infringing on your right in any way. You do not have the right to carry on someone's private property. Repeat- you do not have the right to carry on someone's private property. Only your own.

No one is forcing you to go to that store and disarm. No one is forcing you to be unable to conceal your weapon- only you are, if you choose not to.

It is unfair to accuse a private entity of anything without proof. This is all speculation and therefore accusations about their true intentions are unfounded.

MAC702 said:

Indeed, concealed firearms are far more likely to be negligently handled than an exposed one.

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This is directly the opposite of my experience. Please explain further.