Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: OC at Carnation Mall

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    27

    OC at Carnation Mall

    This past Saturday January 11th I was visiting the the Carnation Mall in Alliance. I had my 4 year old son with me. As I walked out of the "Dunham's" sporting goods I saw a gentleman "Security?" dressed in Mall employee attire standing eyeing my hip. He said to me that I could not be in the mall like that. I asked him to clarify (Knowing full well what his concern was) He explained that a firearm in the mall was against the Mall code of conduct. And that he would give me a copy if I liked. I said sure. It states "No weapons are permitted on Mall Property" . I explained that I looked for Signage when I came in and there was none, he said he was aware of that and they were in the process of getting signs. At that time I said I would leave, he reiterated that if I simply took it to my vehicle and secured it I was more than welcome to continue my visit. I will say he was very polite and courteous and according to what he said was responding to a complaint. We had walked a fair amount at this point so I am not surprised that someone noticed. Normally I would have just left but my 4 year old was looking forward to the visit to the Arcade so I secured it and we finished our visit. No big drama I just thought I would share my story.

    Though I do wonder now, after the fact. If I would walk into the sporting goods store there and buy a Firearm/Bow/Pocket Knife/Nail Clippers would I then have to leave the mall? Seems to be the case considering the wording of there "Code of Conduct"

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,735
    Understanding, having a small child you made the best choice. I hope others don't criticize your decision.

    I guess the mall speaks out of both sides of their mouth.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    I am beginning to think that almost all malls operate the same way: No sign, but a written "policy" or "code of conduct" available on demand. That kind of disingenuous crap resulted in my being detained at Eastdale Mall in Montgomery for two hours and being run through the ringer before they finally accepted that I broke no law.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    27

    Update

    So just a little update for anyone interested I decided to contact the customer service folks of the mall to get there take on the situation. I sent the following email.

    Hello,
    My name is Michael Mathis and live in the Minerva area. I have been a patron of the Carnation Mall for over 20 years. I have fond memories of my parents dropping me and my friends off while we would catch a movie, Get some pizza from Napoli's and spend some time in the arcade (What was once Pocket Change) . The Mall has changed a lot in 20 years and now that I have kids of my own I wish to introduce them to some of the things I did as a child. I was visiting the Mall with my 4 year old son this past Saturday January 11th 2013. He rode some of the rides and then we headed over to Dunhams for a little shopping and was about to go to the arcade when I was met by a gentlemen who identified himself as "Roger". Roger was taking notice of the firearm that I regularly carry on my hip. He told me that I could not be in the mall with it on my person. I explained to him that I did check for signage when entering and did not see any (We used the food court entrance). He explained that they where in the process of acquiring signage and it was against the mall "Code of Conduct".

    I will say that Roger was very professional and courteous and I understand he was doing his job (Considering I had my 4 year old son with me it could have been scary for him seeing his dad challenged in public). And I told him I appreciated the way he handled the situation and that we would gladly leave. He reiterated that we did not have to leave but that the firearm needed to be removed from the building and we were welcome to return. Ultimately that is what we did and finished our Saturday outing. He also asked me if I would like a copy of the Code of conduct which I told him I would. He gave me that as we walked to the exit.

    I am primarily contacting to get some clarification. The code of conduct states "Weapons of any kind are not permitted on property" . Does this apply to the Dunhams sporting goods? Do they need to remove items from stock? Also if I make a purchase of a Firearm/Bow/Crossbow/Knife/Nail Clippers from this establishment am I then required to leave the property? This seems a little counter intuitive as most people visit a mall for the convenience of being able to go store to store. Also the code of conduct states they are not permitted on the PROPERTY. Does this mean that my legally owned and carried firearm cannot be left locked in my vehicle while I visit your establishment? This is very disappointing, it seems that in this economy driving customers away would be the last thing you would want to do.

    Sincerely,

    Disappointed customer,

    Mike Mathis


    I then received the following reply 2 days later.

    Mike,

    Thank You for your email. I forwarded your concerns and questions to our corporate office and to legal counsel. We will move forward on clarifying our Codes and Signage as well as making sure to review thoroughly the questions that you brought to our attention. We really appreciate your support of Carnation City Mall. We want a safe and pleasant atmosphere for our patrons and we truly value your input.

    Thank You,
    Lisa Poole



    --
    Lisa Poole
    Mall Manager
    Carnation City Mall
    2500 W. State Street
    Alliance, Ohio 44601
    330.821.4447
    (C)- 740.632.2123
    www.carnationcitymall.com

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    They are creating an unsafe atmosphere by creating a defense-free zone. Don't they know that these mass shootings almost ALL happen in defense-free zones?

    Anyway, I would have done one thing differently in the email: I would have informed them that that visit was my last as long as they ban lawfully carried firearms. The overwhelming majority of retail spaces allow lawfully carried firearms and are not getting shot up by these lawful carriers. For some reason, most malls do not allow carry. I can only surmise that every time a mall is built, they look to what previous malls have done when setting their policies.

    I stopped shopping at Eastdale Mall in Montgomery, AL after I was ejected for OC. I will not shop anywhere that bars my lawful carry--and, more importantly, I let them know that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    27
    I also thought of this after the fact. I figured on waiting a week or so to see if they respond to any of my questions (Doubtful) and then reach out for an update commenting that I will no longer be able to patronize there facility. I did start to take notice of the individual stores, With the exception f the Cinemark Movie theater. I saw no gun buster signs.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    far sw corner of stark co. OH.
    Posts
    87
    The exact same thing happened to me at the New Town mall in New Philadelphia Oh. It's owned by Glimsher properties who's rabidly anti-gun. Same bs tactics, wants no guns in/on their property but won't post, and here to, also has a Dunhams sporting goods store. Two of their mall security, if thats what you want to call'em (they were unarmed) came over to me and told me if I covered it up, I could stay, but didn't tell me to leave but did tell me the mall has a no guns policy. I said I didn't see any signs but told them I would leave and never patronize the mall anymore, Anyway, I contacted glimsher and I talked to one of the owners (I'm assuming this because he said he was, but who knows), anyhow, this guy had to tell me how he was pro-gun and for the second amendment and at some point in our conversation, I called him a hypocrate (maybe that's why he hung up on me). Just wondering if the mall we're talking about here, is owned by the same hypocrates!

  8. #8
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Logan, OH
    Posts
    1,028
    Here is the problem with you telling these people that you will NOT be back.

    " "



    That's right. No problem. You have given them NO reason to change what they are doing.

    This does not mean that you should return armed and push towards a Criminal Trespass charge.

    It means that you SHOULD return and start talking to EVERY store owner and manager and find out their thoughts. Find out how many armed guards there are in the mall and share that info with the store owners.

    Talk primarily about their feelings about legal, licensed, trained, background checked concealed carriers.

    If the majority of the store owners are against CC, then you probably won't get them to warm up to OC.

    If a majority of the store owners are pro-CC, go back and ask them to push mall management to allow legally carried firearms.

    Use the words "legally carried firearms" and remind the store owners that state law exempts them from civil liability for allowing firearms in their store.

    Of course, this all takes work and time.

    Maybe it's just easier to give up and just not go back.

    But giving up is a great way to lose your rights...all your rights.

    Fight what you can fight.

    If that is Carnation Mall, so be it. The worst that can happen is that they disallow firearms in the mall...oh, wait.

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    far sw corner of stark co. OH.
    Posts
    87
    MWSY:

    Guess I didn't elaborate enough on what I did afterwards but we usually shop at about close to a dozen stores in that mall (New Town) and called every one that we patronized,(this was after I talked to the owner? of the mall, and having no success). Tried to get the individual stores to contact glimsher about their policy but most seemed uninterested in doing so . Can't remember every conversation with every store manager/owner but I never jumped on them for the malls policies but said it was a shame they were loosing business because of that policy.

    Problem is, as usual, I'm just one person saying I can't patronize them, needs to be many more doing so also.

    As for the state liability exemption, I've used that to , many times in attempts to get a business to reverse a no-guns policy.

    I don't know if I'm through with my attempt to garner support from "all" the stores in there, as I only approached the stores my wife and I normally visit.

    I really liked that mall and I let the stores know that, but if they wanted my business , they needed to contact Glimsher about their gun policy!

    As of yet, I've not had one single store in there contact glimsher as far as I know and this all happened, I'll say, around sept. of last year, so.....

  10. #10
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Logan, OH
    Posts
    1,028
    To be fair, they won't get anywhere with Glimcher. They are anti-gun and happy about it.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    far sw corner of stark co. OH.
    Posts
    87
    And to be honest, MWSY......your right........after the conversation with the owner of the mall ( glimsher), he's happy and content with being ignorant. Oh, and I forgot to mention RUDE!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •