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Kelly Thomas trial: 'Not guilty' verdicts a blow to D.A.

EMNofSeattle

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I find it encouraging the DA actually brought this to trial.

Now cue the libertarian crowd who screams jurors have a right to nullify coming in and bashing the verdict in 3....2....

Chris Dorner, where are you when we need you........

exactly, in response to this outrage over a homeless man being beat to death, we need a homicidal maniac to go skull cap some mid 20s college student and her boyfriend, that's exactly how we defend civil rights in america, why wait? you can go out and shoot some people and mail a manifesto to CNN..... :rolleyes:
 
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Primus

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I wonder if the video "that showed he was the primary aggressor " had anything to do with the jury finding them not guilty? Naahhhh they are all corrupt.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

Citizen

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I find it encouraging the DA actually brought this to trial.

I just heard the prosecutor making a statement on the radio a little while ago. He didn't sound all that disappointed.

I wonder if the indictment and prosecution were merely in response to public pressure. It would be interesting to see just how vigorously the prosecution pressed its case.

Hmmmm. I wonder.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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You'd have to have a pretty poor idea of the concept if you thought 'jury nullification' had anything to do with this trial.

But then, I think we all know what EMS's agenda truly is. All a lawyer has to do is introduce enough doubt by going on at length about how 'valuable' the service of the officers was and how long they had served the community an contrast that against some worthless bum's life. It's all for the greater good, you know.
 
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EMNofSeattle

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I just heard the prosecutor making a statement on the radio a little while ago. He didn't sound all that disappointed.

I wonder if the indictment and prosecution were merely in response to public pressure. It would be interesting to see just how vigorously the prosecution pressed its case.

Hmmmm. I wonder.

The prosecutor put a retired FBI agent on the stand who testified kelly had a right to use deadly force against the officers..... Sounds pretty involved to me....
 

onus

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I just heard the prosecutor making a statement on the radio a little while ago. He didn't sound all that disappointed.

I wonder if the indictment and prosecution were merely in response to public pressure. It would be interesting to see just how vigorously the prosecution pressed its case.

Hmmmm. I wonder.

The DA is a well known police supporter and is almost always on the side of the police.

It was very rare for him to try a case since he personally hasn't tried a case in over 6 years.

Yes, the DA bowed to public pressure to bring charges and YES the DA did NOT want a conviction.
 

onus

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This verdict is a major victory for police. It once again shows that police are simply above the law and can murder innocent people in the streets and get away with it.

However, in this case we have to lay a tremendous amount of blame with the jury.

America still has a ton of police worship and I work everyday to change that.
 

Citizen

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The prosecutor put a retired FBI agent on the stand who testified kelly had a right to use deadly force against the officers..... Sounds pretty involved to me....

Good point. I had forgotten, I heard the same thing, the only difference being the retired FBI aspect of the witness.

Still, I can't help but wonder. I saw the videos--more than one witness recorded on his phone. How can people not see that as murder, especially if a litigator does a good job of explaining the evidence? At the moment, I just don't understand it; and, I'm not willing to dismiss it so quickly by blaming the jury.

Don't forget, I well recall the democide* of the native American woodcarver in Washington state. The one where the coroner's inquest neatly avoided any discussion about whether the officer had RAS to seize the homeless man in the first place. Without that RAS to make a seizure, everything else the officer did after that was out-of-bounds. Yet, the inquest never examined that point. Given that it was so obvious a point--a nobody, anonymous yapper on a gun forum (me) noticed it--how could the legal minds involved have failed to raise the point...unless they didn't want to. So, I'm viewing the Kelly Thomas killing--through a lens ground with the wood-carver case.

I guess I'll just have to wait until more information comes in.



*Democide: the extra-judicial killing of a person by his own government. As in, some estimates say that as many as seventy million people were killed extra-judicially by their governments during the 20th century: Stalin vs Ukranian peasants, Mao's Great Leap Forward, Khymer Rouge's Killing Fields, Turkey's genocide of Armenians...
 
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FreeInAZ

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Coming out of CA - nothing surprises me anymore. Police are no longer accountable and that is on all of us to some extent. Civil cases (Fed. 1983 suits) DO NOT hold them accountable, they "awards" are not paid by the guilty they are paid by US!

Criminal cases are almost unheard of and when they do happen, those who should go to jail often walk.

It's a marked deck we are dealt...we (the people) often lose...as the system has been perverted by design to work that way.

Ask yourself this: if any regular citizen did what these officers did, do you think they would be Scott free? Police are regular citizens paid to enforce laws (LE) or once they're on trial they magically revive the term "peace officers". Oh I'm being too harsh, I know, they are just following orders ..(as this most likely came from politicians - to rid the streets of the homeless and other undesirables).

Just following orders has done wonders for our humanity in the past ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi7E-g6scY4

When any society gives a select group a unchecked domain over them in exchange for "security" it is only a matter of time before those of the select group turn on those who enabled their rule. We are beginning to reap what we have sown over the last 60+ years.
 
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onus

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I'm not willing to dismiss it so quickly by blaming the jury.

...

How can you not blame the jury completely ?

This was a unanimous verdict. 12-0 for acquittal.


Not a single person voted guilty.

Based on everything I am reading online and also polling on television its about 80-20 in favor of guilty.
 

Citizen

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How can you not blame the jury completely ?

This was a unanimous verdict. 12-0 for acquittal.


Not a single person voted guilty.

Based on everything I am reading online and also polling on television its about 80-20 in favor of guilty.

Because of what I said just a couple posts above. I'm wondering how a good litigator intent on conviction could fail to make the case based on the available evidence.

Blaming the jury completely means the prosecutor argued and counter-argued and cross-examined thoroughly and completely--something I'm not yet convinced of based on the a) his lack of disappointment in his public statement, and b) the woodcarver inquest.

Look, just because you're willing to jump to a conclusion doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Besides, what if the prosecutor deliberately overlooked some possible cross-examination questions, omitted to highlight some inconsistencies, etc., in a game to make it look like he prosecuted the cops but didn't really try too hard? Your rush to judgment about the jury would leave such a prosecutor's faux prosecution out of sight and out of mind. You wouldn't want to let a law-enforcement officer get away with something like that, would you?
 

onus

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Because of what I said just a couple posts above. I'm wondering how a good litigator intent on conviction could fail to make the case based on the available evidence.

Blaming the jury completely means the prosecutor argued and counter-argued and cross-examined thoroughly and completely--something I'm not yet convinced of based on the a) his lack of disappointment in his public statement, and b) the woodcarver inquest.

Look, just because you're willing to jump to a conclusion doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Besides, what if the prosecutor deliberately overlooked some possible cross-examination questions, omitted to highlight some inconsistencies, etc., in a game to make it look like he prosecuted the cops but didn't really try too hard? Your rush to judgment about the jury would leave such a prosecutor's faux prosecution out of sight and out of mind. You wouldn't want to let a law-enforcement officer get away with something like that, would you?

Here in Los Angeles area the trial was covered daily.

The only criticism I heard about the prosecutor was he failed to file a pitches motion for both defendants and enter their records into evidence.

Beyond that, everyone said the prosecutor did a good job. The evidence was powerful and overwhelming....just not to the jurors.

The only conclusion I am jumping to is the defendants were guilty and it was obvious. I could understand if it was a hung jury with a few jurors voting not guilty but for all 12 to vote not guilty is mind boggling.

I feel like 1995 all over again.

So Cal jurors are just brain dead.
 

countryclubjoe

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nj
Hi Folks

In my opinion although the criminals were found innocent in the criminal procedure, the victims family will prevail in a wrongful death suit.

Regarding the good folks of CA, please be on alert that as long as these criminal thugs and those that support their criminal actions are free to breathe air, that your family and your loved ones are not safe. We can only pray that these murders live a long agonizing life and upon their death they encounter the flames of hell.

My .02

Regards.

CCJ
 

davidmcbeth

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http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...rdicts-20140113,0,5336980.story#axzz2qLILzXhF

“Now you see my fists? They’re getting ready to …. you up.”



Chris Dorner, where are you when we need you........

Defense attorneys said their clients should not be convicted for simply doing their jobs. Ramos' attorney, John Barnett, told reporters: "These peace officers were doing their jobs... They did what they were trained to do."

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...rdicts-20140113,0,5336980.story#ixzz2qM9oHvR2



OK....now we know ....
 

sudden valley gunner

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I wonder if the video "that showed he was the primary aggressor " had anything to do with the jury finding them not guilty? Naahhhh they are all corrupt.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Let me watch this supposed video, that would allow the murder of someone who was an unarmed "primary aggressor" by state costumed agents who are supposed to be limited in their use of force.
 

sudden valley gunner

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I just heard the prosecutor making a statement on the radio a little while ago. He didn't sound all that disappointed.

I wonder if the indictment and prosecution were merely in response to public pressure. It would be interesting to see just how vigorously the prosecution pressed its case.

Hmmmm. I wonder.

He wasn't EMN is missing several factors.

The officers were clearly guilty and the jury acquitted them, textbook nullification.....

1. They have grand Jury's in California if I recall, it may not have been the DA's choice to try these murderers.

2. The DA who is a cop supporter, and wasn't disappointed, had a hand in picking the Jury, so someone with a vested interest in a not guilty outcome was the prosecution and they got too choose with the "defense" the deciders.

3. It's not text book jury nullification, if it was I wouldn't be so disappointed,
a) were the jury fully informed
b) It can not be a trial by pais if the government dictates the rules the jury must follow
c) If the jury was not randomly chosen and not discriminated against because of their knowledge.
 

OC for ME

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The defense used the dead guys past legal entanglements to sway the jury. The dude was a violent nut. The cops could not know that at the time and nor should they be required to. They, the cops, beat to death who they thought was just another uppity citizen. This case is nothing more than another example of "failure to comply begets the most extreme consequence."

A civil suit will be far more easy to win now that a bunch of evidence is available and the family can get a real attorney to press their case. But, it is a SoCow jury pool. I would not be surprised if the case is move far and away due to the "prejudicial coverage" of the criminal trial. It would be nice to sue the thug cops into absolute poverty, like living in a cardboard box under a freeway overpass poverty.
 
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