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Thread: What is the charge for lying to a police officer in Virginia?

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    What is the charge for lying to a police officer in Virginia?

    This question is an offshoot from another thread. Is there a specific law or a specific charge used against someone who has lied to a police officer in response to question? Just curious.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.

    A. If any person without just cause knowingly obstructs a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, any law-enforcement officer, or animal control officer employed pursuant to 3.2-6555 in the performance of his duties as such or fails or refuses without just cause to cease such obstruction when requested to do so by such judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, law-enforcement officer, or animal control officer employed pursuant to 3.2-6555, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. Except as provided in subsection C, any person who, by threats or force, knowingly attempts to intimidate or impede a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, any law-enforcement officer, or an animal control officer employed pursuant to 3.2-6555 lawfully engaged in his duties as such, or to obstruct or impede the administration of justice in any court, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    C. If any person by threats of bodily harm or force knowingly attempts to intimidate or impede a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, any law-enforcement officer, lawfully engaged in the discharge of his duty, or to obstruct or impede the administration of justice in any court relating to a violation of or conspiracy to violate 18.2-248 or subdivision (a) (3), (b) or (c) of 18.2-248.1, or 18.2-46.2 or 18.2-46.3, or relating to the violation of or conspiracy to violate any violent felony offense listed in subsection C of 17.1-805, he shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.

    D. Any person who knowingly and willfully makes any materially false statement or representation to a law-enforcement officer or an animal control officer employed pursuant to 3.2-6555 who is in the course of conducting an investigation of a crime by another is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
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    Edit: Too slow on the post button! :P
    Last edited by Blk97F150; 01-14-2014 at 04:47 PM.

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.


    D. Any person who knowingly and willfully makes any materially false statement or representation to a law-enforcement officer or an animal control officer employed pursuant to 3.2-6555 who is in the course of conducting an investigation of a crime by another is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    Note that the above says "in the course of conducting and investigation of a crime by another."

    How about this scenario:

    An open carrier is stopped by officer as a result of a man-with-gun call. The open carrier is not breaking any laws. The officer asks the open carrier if he is also carrying any concealed weapons such as a knife. The open carrier tells the officer no, even though he has a legal pocket knife on him. How would this qualify as obstruction of justice?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    Note that the above says "in the course of conducting and investigation of a crime by another."

    How about this scenario:

    An open carrier is stopped by officer as a result of a man-with-gun call. The open carrier is not breaking any laws. The officer asks the open carrier if he is also carrying any concealed weapons such as a knife. The open carrier tells the officer no, even though he has a legal pocket knife on him. How would this qualify as obstruction of justice?
    The problem is you have no idea if the officer is actually conducting a investigation of a crime. They do not have to tell you they are. So in the above scenario if there has been a crime committed in the area, or it is a traffic stop and you lie you can be charged with obstructing. You do not have to be the object of the investigation to be charged.

    To add you also do not have to be guilty of a crime, or even suspected of one. The officer does not even have to be correct, they only have to make the claim of investigating. It would be a tough one to disprove.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-14-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    @WalkingWolf - good points all. All the more reason to follow the general advice of don't talk to cops.
    Last edited by BillB; 01-14-2014 at 05:23 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    @WalingWolf - good points all. All the more reason to follow the general advice of don't talk to cops.
    Ohhh My, somebody will be along shortly to tell you that we all should talk to the police.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Ohhh My, somebody will be along shortly to tell you that we all should talk to the police.
    They should watch this first...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
    Last edited by BillB; 01-14-2014 at 05:26 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    They should watch this first...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
    He has, but he still makes the same claims.
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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    He has, but he still makes the same claims.
    I look forward to hearing his reasoning why then.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    I look forward to hearing his reasoning why then.
    Ohhh Lord! You don't know how he can go on, and on. You do not know what you ask.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    I look forward to hearing his reasoning why then.
    NO!Please, there is no reasoning. It is a trained retort only. Do not feed the troll, but shun him.

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    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-14-2014 at 05:37 PM.
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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    OK, I'll try to spare y'all. Will the fellow who thinks it is a good idea to talk to cops please just PM me with the rationale.

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    Interactions with police.

    I see nothing wrong with a polite exchange of greetings with members of law enforcement. That is just common courtesy. However, when I start getting a barrage of questions, especially questions phrased in an aggressive or insulting manner, then I start asking, "Why am I being detained?" and, "Am I free to go?"

    One word of caution that each of you have heard multiple times; If you aren't recording audio, video, or both, you are wrong. A recording, in a lot of cases, has been a lifesaver for a lot of folks. Also been the instrument of seeing a rogue officer taken off the streets in a few.
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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    Note that the above says "in the course of conducting and investigation of a crime by another."

    How about this scenario:

    An open carrier is stopped by officer as a result of a man-with-gun call. The open carrier is not breaking any laws. The officer asks the open carrier if he is also carrying any concealed weapons such as a knife. The open carrier tells the officer no, even though he has a legal pocket knife on him. How would this qualify as obstruction of justice?
    Making a false statement to a "Special" agent of the FBI is a crime. It's why Martha Stewart went to prison.

    It's not a crime in Virginia. But we dodged a bullet, because it was very, very close, thanks to John Cosgrove:

    HB 369 Obstructing justice by giving a false statement.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    OK, I'll try to spare y'all. Will the fellow who thinks it is a good idea to talk to cops please just PM me with the rationale.
    Hey bill,

    I just had the pm thing open and I started to type a response to your question. It then dawned on me that is be letting some guys on here dictate my actions or responses on this public forum. Last I checked none of the people talking were or are moderators. Ironically they cry when others attempt to moderate but they in turn do it. With that preamble over I'll attempt to give an example and reasoning.

    If you KNOW you had nothing to do with a crime then you should SPEAK up and say that to an officer. If an officer stops you because they have a description of a bad guy and you meet said description (not hard) you can easily clear yourself by speaking.

    For example.... if you were somewhere else or with someone else that can clear you without a doubt then SAY that.

    Officer- hey we got a call a man matching your description just did (insert crime) over there (insert place).

    Citizen- no sir I was never even over there or anywhere near it. Look I just stepped out of this (insert store). You can ask the clerk i was on there for 20 minutes looking at (insert product).

    Officer- ok wait here.

    Officer checks your story let's you go on the spot.

    Let's change citizens response...

    Citizen- I want a lawyer am I being detained!?

    Officer- ok now your being placed in handcuffs and will be transported back to the scene of the crime for a "bring back" ID.

    See the difference? You can assist them in clearing your name.

    I personally don't give a rats behind what anyone posts or any videos there are that say otherwise. If you've done nothing wrong then talking and attempting to clear up an obvious mistake is possible.



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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Guess what? That's what you're going to have to do in my case. I don't talk to the police because the consequences could be much greater for talking than for not. And your scenario is highly unlikely compared to the likelihood of the stops I have already been unlawfully subjected to!


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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    @Primus - weak sauce.

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    Anyone got a rational retort? His post was rational, but can easily be refuted. Remember, he is not the person you are trying to convince. You can't. Your target is the people reading and not responding. Right now, HE has the upper hand in swaying them.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Anyone got a rational retort? His post was rational, but can easily be refuted. Remember, he is not the person you are trying to convince. You can't. Your target is the people reading and not responding. Right now, HE has the upper hand in swaying them.


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    It would seem the OP did not find his post rational, and he is the person to convince. His upper hand has hair growing on the palm.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Thanks for assisting me in making my point. I will move on, awaiting a rational response. I suspect the next one will, unfortunately, come from Primus.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Thanks for assisting me in making my point. I will move on, awaiting a rational response. I suspect the next one will, unfortunately, come from Primus.


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    Of course it does for you. Which speaks to your own credibility.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    I seen more people convict them self's by talking to the police then not talking.

    Answer politely the questions you are required to but saying any more can lead to problems.

    I am affirm believer in, I well only answer questions with my lawyer present.

    The more serious the likely charges, the more serious the request for an lawyer.

    For simple traffic violations like speeding remaining silent is a good idea.

    Police are very good at getting some one to admit their guilt.

    Answering a simple question like where are you coming from could put you in the area of homicide that you didn't know any thing about. Leading to what time you were there, leading was any body with you leading to many other questions.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 01-14-2014 at 06:32 PM.
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    Ah, rationality. I would disagree with the speeding though. If it is minor crap, like speeding, when I am indeed caught, being deferential to the officer and making him feel secure has manipulated him every time into a warning. I have never gotten a speeding ticket.


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