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What is the charge for lying to a police officer in Virginia?

eye95

eye95

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Thanks for assisting me in making my point. I will move on, awaiting a rational response. I suspect the next one will, unfortunately, come from Primus.


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<o>
 
WalkingWolf

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eye95 said:
Thanks for assisting me in making my point. I will move on, awaiting a rational response. I suspect the next one will, unfortunately, come from Primus.


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Click to expand...
Of course it does for you. Which speaks to your own credibility.
 
F

Firearms Iinstuctor

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I seen more people convict them self's by talking to the police then not talking.

Answer politely the questions you are required to but saying any more can lead to problems.

I am affirm believer in, I well only answer questions with my lawyer present.

The more serious the likely charges, the more serious the request for an lawyer.

For simple traffic violations like speeding remaining silent is a good idea.

Police are very good at getting some one to admit their guilt.

Answering a simple question like where are you coming from could put you in the area of homicide that you didn't know any thing about. Leading to what time you were there, leading was any body with you leading to many other questions.
 
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eye95

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Ah, rationality. I would disagree with the speeding though. If it is minor crap, like speeding, when I am indeed caught, being deferential to the officer and making him feel secure has manipulated him every time into a warning. I have never gotten a speeding ticket.


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WalkingWolf

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Police need two things for a detention or an arrest~~~PC or RAS. If they only have RAS they cannot make a arrest legally only on RAS. If they have PC, they do not need a statement to make an arrest.

Either the officer has PC or not, if he does not and cuffs and stuffs as Primus suggested he has violated your civil rights. Transporting is past detention, it is a arrest. A officers only purpose of asking questions is to get evidence, so he can cuff and stuff. I expect most police officers know this.

Don't talk to police without a attorney!
 
Primus

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WalkingWolf said:
Police need two things for a detention or an arrest~~~PC or RAS. If they only have RAS they cannot make a arrest legally only on RAS. If they have PC, they do not need a statement to make an arrest.

Either the officer has PC or not, if he does not and cuffs and stuffs as Primus suggested he has violated your civil rights. Transporting is past detention, it is a arrest. A officers only purpose of asking questions is to get evidence, so he can cuff and stuff. I expect most police officers know this.

Don't talk to police without a attorney!
Click to expand...

Walking wolf your above post is co.pmetely wrong.

Google "bring back ID"

TRANSPORT DOES NOT EQUAL ARREST

You have a show up and bring back I'd.

A show up is where you have the suspect detained and you bring the victim to ID them or you "show up" with them.

A bring back is when you leave the victim somewhere and BRING BACK the suspect to get a yes or no from the victim.

So to do that you cuff the suspect and transport them to scene or location. That IS NOT and ARREST. It is still a detainment. Cuffs DO NOT always equal arrest.
If they are NOT positively id'd then you kick them loose. Its not a false arrest because you are working on RAS to DETAIN. If the victim IDs them then it is kicked to PC and it would turn into an arrest.





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F

Firearms Iinstuctor

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eye95 said:
Ah, rationality. I would disagree with the speeding though. If it is minor crap, like speeding, when I am indeed caught, being deferential to the officer and making him feel secure has manipulated him every time into a warning. I have never gotten a speeding ticket.


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<o>
Click to expand...

Some times it works Some times it doesn't.
 
WalkingWolf

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Primus said:
Walking wolf your above post is co.pmetely wrong.

Google "bring back ID"

TRANSPORT DOES NOT EQUAL ARREST

You have a show up and bring back I'd.

A show up is where you have the suspect detained and you bring the victim to ID them or you "show up" with them.

A bring back is when you leave the victim somewhere and BRING BACK the suspect to get a yes or no from the victim.

So to do that you cuff the suspect and transport them to scene or location. That IS NOT and ARREST. It is still a detainment. Cuffs DO NOT always equal arrest.
If they are NOT positively id'd then you kick them loose. Its not a false arrest because you are working on RAS to DETAIN. If the victim IDs them then it is kicked to PC and it would turn into an arrest.





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Click to expand...
Terry V Ohio only allows temporary detention upon RAS. Again you are full of it! There must be PC to legally make an arrest. An arrest is depriving a person of their liberty, cuffing and stuff, and then transporting is a deprivation of liberty.
 
P

PistolPackingMomma

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Primus said:
Hey bill,

I just had the pm thing open and I started to type a response to your question. It then dawned on me that is be letting some guys on here dictate my actions or responses on this public forum. Last I checked none of the people talking were or are moderators. Ironically they cry when others attempt to moderate but they in turn do it. With that preamble over I'll attempt to give an example and reasoning.

If you KNOW you had nothing to do with a crime then you should SPEAK up and say that to an officer. If an officer stops you because they have a description of a bad guy and you meet said description (not hard) you can easily clear yourself by speaking.

For example.... if you were somewhere else or with someone else that can clear you without a doubt then SAY that.

Officer- hey we got a call a man matching your description just did (insert crime) over there (insert place).

Citizen- no sir I was never even over there or anywhere near it. Look I just stepped out of this (insert store). You can ask the clerk i was on there for 20 minutes looking at (insert product).

Officer- ok wait here.

Officer checks your story let's you go on the spot.

Let's change citizens response...

Citizen- I want a lawyer am I being detained!?

Officer- ok now your being placed in handcuffs and will be transported back to the scene of the crime for a "bring back" ID.

See the difference? You can assist them in clearing your name.

I personally don't give a rats behind what anyone posts or any videos there are that say otherwise. If you've done nothing wrong then talking and attempting to clear up an obvious mistake is possible.



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Click to expand...

What Primus fails to mention is that taking a ride is less damaging to the longevity of your freedom than talking, and accidentally lying or incriminating yourself.

Cops are allowed to lie in the course of an investigation. Cops do occasionally arrest innocent people, who become convicted through their own cooperation. Cops do not write you off the suspect list because of your sincerity.

Take the ride and shut your trap to avoid the rap.
 
F350

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Primus said:
For example.... if you were somewhere else or with someone else that can clear you without a doubt then SAY that.

Officer- hey we got a call a man matching your description just did (insert crime) over there (insert place).

Citizen- no sir I was never even over there or anywhere near it. Look I just stepped out of this (insert store). You can ask the clerk i was on there for 20 minutes looking at (insert product).

Officer- ok wait here.

Officer checks your story let's you go on the spot.


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Click to expand...

We all know cops are free to lie their @ off how 'bout this...

Officer- hey we got a call a man matching your description just did (insert crime) over there (to the east).

Citizen- no sir I was never even over there or anywhere near it. I was at XYZ Sporting Goods (to the west) here is the receipt showing the time

Officer- We just had a shooting behind XYX, PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK!!!
 
Primus

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Firearms Iinstuctor said:
I seen more people convict them self's by talking to the police then not talking.

Answer politely the questions you are required to but saying any more can lead to problems.

I am affirm believer in, I well only answer questions with my lawyer present.

The more serious the likely charges, the more serious the request for an lawyer.

For simple traffic violations like speeding remaining silent is a good idea.

Police are very good at getting some one to admit their guilt.

Answering a simple question like where are you coming from could put you in the area of homicide that you didn't know any thing about. Leading to what time you were there, leading was any body with you leading to many other questions.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with this in the respect that more serious the crime or the more guilty you are then less you say. Shut up of you really did beat your wife. Get a lawyer.

If youve done NOTHING wrong then articulate that clearly and politely and you'll be fine.

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WalkingWolf

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F350 said:
We all know cops are free to lie their @ off how 'bout this...

Officer- hey we got a call a man matching your description just did (insert crime) over there (to the east).

Citizen- no sir I was never even over there or anywhere near it. I was at XYZ Sporting Goods (to the west) here is the receipt showing the time

Officer- We just had a shooting behind XYX, PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK!!!
Click to expand...
Exactly! Don't talk to police without a attorney!

Even speeding, give license and registration and keep mouth shut.

Officer: I clocked you at 150 MPH.

Suspect: But I was only doing 95.

Bingo! Reckless driving ticket where the officer may not even have clocked at all.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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Primus said:
Citizen- I want a lawyer am I being detained!?
Officer- ok now your being placed in handcuffs and will be transported back to the scene of the crime for a "bring back" ID.
See the difference? You can assist them in clearing your name.

I personally don't give a rats behind what anyone posts or any videos there are that say otherwise. If you've done nothing wrong then talking and attempting to clear up an obvious mistake is possible.
Click to expand...

Except.. your scenario has as much resemblance to reality as my foot does to the Mona Lisa.

Citizen- "No, officer, I was never even over there or anywhere near it. Look I just stepped out of this (insert store). You can ask the clerk i was in there for 20 minutes looking at (insert product)."

Officer Friendly, "The clerk says you were in his store for almost an hour, but you match the description. Turn around and put your hands behind your back. You got any guns? knives? anything that'll stick me? You got ID?
Have you been to jail before?"
 
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Primus

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WalkingWolf said:
Keep in mind this is the same guy who said he would let a domestic violence victim go on only their word...
Click to expand...

So says the guy who just said TRANSPORT EQUALS ARREST and had no idea what a bring back or show up was.

And you bet I would let a domestic violence VICTIM go....

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Primus

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Fallschirmjäger said:
Except.. your scenario has as much resemblance to reality as my foot does to the Mona Lisa.

Citizen- "No, officer, I was never even over there or anywhere near it. Look I just stepped out of this (insert store). You can ask the clerk i was in there for 20 minutes looking at (insert product)."

Officer Friendly, "The clerk says you were in his store for almost an hour, but you match the description. Turn around and put your hands behind your back. You got any guns? knives? anything that'll stick me? You got ID?
Have you been to jail before?"
Click to expand...

Do u have something to base this on? Or is more opinion guys just toss around?

Did this happen to you? Are you citing personal experience? Or even experience of a personal friend?

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WalkingWolf

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Primus said:
So says the guy who just said TRANSPORT EQUALS ARREST and had no idea what a bring back or show up was.

And you bet I would let a domestic violence VICTIM go....

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Click to expand...

Yes because in your world the person who claims that the other did it is the victim. Even when the evidence shows otherwise. Glad you picked up on that. And transport does equal arrest, could you cite the bring back law. :lol::lol::lol:

So tell us again how you let a person go from a crime because they said they did not do it? Particularly domestic violence? I think the ladies here would really appreciate your attitude.

Investigatory stops or detentions must be limited and temporary, lasting no longer than necessary to carry out the purpose of the stop or detention. An investigatory stop that lasts too long turns into a de facto arrest that must comply with the warrant requirements of the Fourth Amendment. But no bright line exists for determining when an investigatory stop becomes a de facto arrest, as courts are reluctant to hamstring the flexibility and discretion of police officers by placing artificial time limitations on the fluid and dynamic nature of their investigations. Rather, the test is whether the detention is temporary and whether the police acted with reasonable dispatch to quickly confirm or dispel the suspicions that initially induced the investigative detention.

Hmmm no where does it mention transportation.

An arrest may occur (1) by the touching or putting hands on the arrestee; (2) by any act that indicates an intention to take the arrestee into custody and that subjects the arrestee to the actual control and will of the person making the arrest; or (3) by the consent of the person to be arrested. There is no arrest where there is no restraint, and the restraint must be under real or pretended legal authority. However, the detention of a person need not be accompanied by formal words of arrest or a station house booking to constitute an arrest.

The bold above would describe transport exactly.

The test used to determine whether an arrest took place in a particular case is objective, and it turns on whether a reasonable person under these circumstances would believe he or she was restrained or free to go. A reasonable person is one who is not guilty of criminal conduct, overly apprehensive, or insensitive to the seriousness of the circumstances. Reasonableness is not determined in light of a defendant's subjective knowledge or fears. The subjective intent of the police is also normally irrelevant to a court's determination whether an arrest occurred, unless the officer makes that intent known. Thus, a defendant's presence at a police station by consent does not become an arrest solely by virtue of an officer's subjective view that the defendant is not free to leave, absent an act indicating an intention to take the defendant into custody.

If you are transporting without consent, it is a arrest!

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Police+detention

Of course it may be different for a weekend warrior MP...:lol:
 
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F

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Primus said:
I actually agree with this in the respect that more serious the crime or the more guilty you are then less you say. Shut up of you really did beat your wife. Get a lawyer.

If youve done NOTHING wrong then articulate that clearly and politely and you'll be fine.

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Click to expand...

One could easily make themselves a suspect by being honest. Then with federal officers a simple mistake could lead to a conviction of lying to a federal officers.

I was at such a place a 800pm well they found out it was actually 830 prove it was a mistake not a lie. Many people have went to prison for lying then the actual crime.

I guess I would ask on being stopped Am I a suspect for a crime if the answer is yes then It is I want to speak to an attorney before I answer any questions.

If the answer is no then it is am I free to go and if yes LEAVE, if no I want to speak to my attorney before I answer any questions.

As far as traffic citations even through I had good solid evidence of the violation. It was always nice to get the violator to admit quilt. Makes the case a lot stronger if they decide to contest the citation at a latter date.

I have made many arrests, then convicted them on their statements
 
WalkingWolf

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firearms iinstuctor said:
one could easily make themselves a suspect by being honest. Then with federal officers a simple mistake could lead to a conviction of lying to a federal officers.

I was at such a place a 800pm well they found out it was actually 830 prove it was a mistake not a lie. Many people have went to prison for lying then the actual crime.

I guess i would ask on being stopped am i a suspect for a crime if the answer is yes then it is i want to speak to an attorney before i answer any questions.

If the answer is no then it is am i free to go and if yes leave, if no i want to speak to my attorney before i answer any questions.

As far as traffic citations even through i had good solid evidence of the violation. It was always nice to get the violator to admit quilt. Makes the case a lot stronger if they decide to contest the citation at a latter date.

i have made many arrests, then convicted them on their statements
Click to expand...

qft! +1
 
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