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Maryland a scary place

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
Wow, that's pretty bad. As someone who has moved from Virginia to Pennsylvania I deal with the transport situation quite often when I go back home. I follow FOPA and hope I don't get pulled over for anything. The main thing I remember is to never consent to a search of the vehicle.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I got pulled over in NJ and the cop kept on asking me if I had any guns...I just sat there quite ... he got mad stomping up and down ... let em ... not my problem.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Well, of course he wrote out a warning, he had to substantiate why he stopped the man in the first place.
I wonder if it was for one of those mysterious 'tag lights' that only works sporadically. It always works.... unless the police are behind you, like it knows they're there.

This is probably the most damning reason why firearms licenses should NOT be linked to driver's licenses.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Ten minutes later he’s back, and he wants John out of the Expedition. Retreating to the space between the SUV and the unmarked car, the officer orders John to hook his thumbs behind his back and spread his feet. “You own a gun,” the officer says. “Where is it?”
“At home in my safe,” John answers.
“Don’t move,” says the officer.
Now he’s at the passenger’s window. “Your husband owns a gun,” he says. “Where is it?”
First Kally says, “I don’t know.” Retelling it later she says, “And that’s all I should have said.” Instead, attempting to be helpful, she added, “Maybe in the glove [box]. Maybe in the console. I’m scared of it. I don’t want to have anything to do with it. I might shoot right through my foot.”

I bet we can all see where he and his wife went wrong.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
I bet we can all see where he and his wife went wrong.

The Gentleman should have remained in the vehicle. He and his wife should have remained silent and do not consent to any search..

However their mistakes, I do not agree to the treatment they received from the LEO.

The lesson to be learned is; REMAIN SILENT!

My .02

Best regards,

CCJ
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Where they went wrong was in their preparations for the trip. He left his gun at home and didn't tell the family members that he did so. Especially bad, since he thought about the consequences of carrying it into Maryland. :banghead:
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Blaming the victim?

"Okay honey, listen up this is important. The Glock is in the safe, the Ruger's at your brother's in Boca, the Remington's at my sister's in Cocoa Beach. Got all that?"
"Is the Glock the black one?"
"They're all black, okay one more time........"
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
The Gentleman should have remained in the vehicle. He and his wife should have remained silent and do not consent to any search..

However their mistakes, I do not agree to the treatment they received from the LEO.

The lesson to be learned is; REMAIN SILENT!
True on the last part, not so much on the first, I'm afraid.
When the nice officer with the gun TELLS you to get out, you get out. Not doing so is resisting/obstruction and you WILL get out or be dragged out. Conversely if he tell you to stay inside, Stay Inside.
 
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TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
What lesson do we take from this?

This horrible story is being discussed over on one of the VCDL facebook pages.

The question that needs to be answered is this:

Does Virginia automatically send CHP information to out-of-state law enforcement agencies when they run a check on a plate or a driver's license?

If so, this needs to STOP and NOW. Obviously when an inquiry comes in asking if a SPECIFIC person HAS a CHP, that is one thing, and is fine. That's part of reciprocity. But to AUTOMATICALLY send it out for any plate check or ID check is NOT fine, and should be stopped if that is what is happening. As far as I know, statistics are still on our side with CHP holders being the most law-abiding segment of society. Officer safety is NOT the issue here.

There is NO benefit to the citizens of Virginia for our government to provide the insane and corrupt law enforcement agencies in the foreign lands to the north of us with information they can then use to go fishing.

VCDL really should look into this as a legislative action item.

TFred
 
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Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Contact your legislative rep, this is unacceptable. It's far too dangerous for a State's citizens traveling into a 2A hostile state to have their firearms status broadcast.

Think of it in these terms...
Your state legalizes X behavior that's a felony in Y. You travel into Y and interact with law enforcement.
How do you think Y's police are going to react knowing that you're a felon (or you would be if you were one of that State's citizens)?
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Contact your legislative rep, this is unacceptable. It's far too dangerous for a State's citizens traveling into a 2A hostile state to have their firearms status broadcast.

Think of it in these terms...
Your state legalizes X behavior that's a felony in Y. You travel into Y and interact with law enforcement.
How do you think Y's police are going to react knowing that you're a felon (or you would be if you were one of that State's citizens)?

Hi

What was the RAS for the stop in the first place. "out of State Tags" ? So if you drive into Maryland with out of state tags expect to be detained on the side of the road and harassed. Total ********..

My .02

Regards

CCJ
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
For various reasons I travel regularly from the Commonwealth of Virginia back into TPR of Maryland. I do not carry when doing so. Still, even though I have an NRA Life Member decal on my rear window and a large bright orange "Guns Save Lives" VCDL sticker on my rear hatch, and even though I regularly use one of the two toll tunnels when traveling through Maryland (where this OP incident occurred) ... I have never been stopped.

Even if I were pulled over for some reason, I have studied and practiced enough to know what to say and what not to say -- and so does my wife:

"Am I being detained?" (Obviously if it's a traffic stop I *am* being detained.)
"I don't answer questions." (Other than obeying the responsibility to provide D/L, Registration and Insurance Card.)
"I do not consent to any searches or seizures of my person, papers or property."
"Am I free to go?"

Otherwise, upon the good advice of my counsel, I KMBMS. (Keep My Big Mouth Shut.)

Depending on the hard-ass level of the detaining officer, this may cause him or her to become agitated, but so be it. I'm protecting my rights.

And, of course, I know the laws regarding video and audio recording and I keep the recorder running.

All without attitude on my part, and remaining calm and smiling...
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
What was the RAS for the stop in the first place. "out of State Tags" ? So if you drive into Maryland with out of state tags expect to be detained on the side of the road and harassed.
That is an intriguing question, according to the article the individual was doing nothing overtly wrong, he was even getting passed by traffic.

Hmmm... I do recall reading somewhere that one of the indicators of a vehicle potentially carrying drugs was driving at or even below the speed limit (on the theory that if you're obeying the law the cops won't pull you over.) As the driver had an SUV (drug indicator), tinted windows (drug indicator and most SUVs are sold tinted), and was driving at or below the speed limit (indicator) he 'fit the profile' of a drug mule.

It's quite possible the nice officer just wanted a roadside chat. Had he gone to the driver's window, not been engulfed in noxious marijuana smoke and the license come back 'clean' he would have handed the license back and said, "Hey, I saw your tag light was out, you may wanna get that fixed. Have a nice day, citizen."

Unfortunately, the license check reported something that Maryland does NOT like, people with guns. In my opinion, he grossly over-reacted and in order to cover his ass at the end issued a 'warning citation' to try and justify his actions. Good thing about warning citations is that it implies the officer was doing his job (I pulled the driver over because of an equipment violation) but doesn't require the ticket to be answered in court.
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that it was for a tag light being out. Something that mysteriously happens only occasionally and can't be reproduced or need ever happen again.


Cops talk to cops, they discuss their jobs. They talk about what phrases and words to use in court. They talk about what indicators to look for or say they looked for, they discuss tactics to use against the criminal element. If an officer speaks to you in any other way than, "Hey, how 'bout them sportsteam, they really sportsteamed last night didn't they?" he's speaking to someone he suspects is a potential criminal and he just has to find out what they did wrong.
 
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countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
For various reasons I travel regularly from the Commonwealth of Virginia back into TPR of Maryland. I do not carry when doing so. Still, even though I have an NRA Life Member decal on my rear window and a large bright orange "Guns Save Lives" VCDL sticker on my rear hatch, and even though I regularly use one of the two toll tunnels when traveling through Maryland (where this OP incident occurred) ... I have never been stopped.

Even if I were pulled over for some reason, I have studied and practiced enough to know what to say and what not to say -- and so does my wife:

"Am I being detained?" (Obviously if it's a traffic stop I *am* being detained.)
"I don't answer questions." (Other than obeying the responsibility to provide D/L, Registration and Insurance Card.)
"I do not consent to any searches or seizures of my person, papers or property."
"Am I free to go?"

Otherwise, upon the good advice of my counsel, I KMBMS. (Keep My Big Mouth Shut.)

Depending on the hard-ass level of the detaining officer, this may cause him or her to become agitated, but so be it. I'm protecting my rights.



And, of course, I know the laws regarding video and audio recording and I keep the recorder running.

All without attitude on my part, and remaining calm and smiling...

Hi Folks

+1 squared!

CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
That is an intriguing question, according to the article the individual was doing nothing overtly wrong, he was even getting passed by traffic.

Hmmm... I do recall reading somewhere that one of the indicators of a vehicle potentially carrying drugs was driving at or even below the speed limit (on the theory that if you're obeying the law the cops won't pull you over.) As the driver had an SUV (drug indicator), tinted windows (drug indicator and most SUVs are sold tinted), and was driving at or below the speed limit (indicator) he 'fit the profile' of a drug mule.

It's quite possible the nice officer just wanted a roadside chat. Had he gone to the driver's window, not been engulfed in noxious marijuana smoke and the license come back 'clean' he would have handed the license back and said, "Hey, I saw your tag light was out, you may wanna get that fixed. Have a nice day, citizen."

Unfortunately, the license check reported something that Maryland does NOT like, people with guns. In my opinion, he grossly over-reacted and in order to cover his ass at the end issued a 'warning citation' to try and justify his actions. Good thing about warning citations is that it implies the officer was doing his job (I pulled the driver over because of an equipment violation) but doesn't require the ticket to be answered in court.
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that it was for a tag light being out. Something that mysteriously happens only occasionally and can't be reproduced or need ever happen again.


Cops talk to cops, they discuss their jobs. They talk about what phrases and words to use in court. They talk about what indicators to look for or say they looked for, they discuss tactics to use against the criminal element. If an officer speaks to you in any other way than, "Hey, how 'bout them sportsteam, they really sportsteamed last night didn't they?" he's speaking to someone he suspects is a potential criminal and he just has to find out what they did wrong.

The modern age of technology and the G sharing information. Hence I contend give them no information... Permits, licenses, etc are a form of contract that you create with the G, and all your personal information is entered into a government data base therefore by entering into said contract you are essentially surrendering your right to privacy... Most folks do not understand this theory.
Read- Liberty Of Contract by David N. Mayer, legal scholar.
Read -What Social Classes Owe To Each Other- BY William Graham Sumner, Sumner is perhaps the best known American Theorists of " Laissez-Faire"...

Both authors essay/books focus on citizens rights to NOT enter into contracts, especially contracts that unknowingly take away rights and extend a privilege..

" A Society based on Contract is a society of free independent men, who form ties without favor or obligation, and co-operate without cringing or intrigue. A society based on Contract, therefore, gives the utmost room and chance for individual development, and for all the self-reliance and dignity of a "free Man"...

I contend that if a citizen is expected/forced/ by statutes or unjust laws to enter into a contract to exercise a natural right, then said citizen is not a "free Man".

My .02

Best regards

CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Hi Folks

The citizen was clearly stopped for having out of state tags, in this case Florida tags.

Regards

CCJ
 

zoom6zoom

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
1,694
Location
Dale City, VA, Virginia, USA
[QUOTEI have plans to visit DE in June/July this year but have to travel through MD. ][/QUOTE]
and just in case you missed it, to prevent other issues, Delaware no longer honors our VA CHP's.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
The citizen was clearly stopped for having out of state tags, in this case Florida tags.
Nahhhhh... MDTA's facebook page clearly says it was because the driver was speeding.


That leaves open the question... IF the transgression of speeding was worth the officer pulling over the driver initially, why was it only a "warning citation" when after 4 or 6 man/hours were expended looking for a firearm not less than a thousand miles away?

Wasn't it the 'driver's actions' that caused the search? Why did they reward his actions by downgrading the infraction to a 'warning'?
 
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