Maryland a scary place

Fallschirmjäger said:

Nahhhhh... MDTA's facebook page clearly says it was because the driver was speeding.


That leaves open the question... IF the transgression of speeding was worth the officer pulling over the driver initially, why was it only a "warning citation" when after 4 or 6 man/hours were expended looking for a firearm not less than a thousand miles away?

Wasn't it the 'driver's actions' that caused the search? Why did they reward his actions by downgrading the infraction to a 'warning'?

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Hi Fallschirmjager.

You raise some great points. The leos in this case were basically free rolling( A poker term). They make a stop of a citizen with out of state plates (Florida). If the citizen should have some warrants they search for drugs, weapons, etc. If they get lucky and find anything they make an arrest and they look like they were doing some great police work however in this case they simply look like a bunch of bullies and they need to make excuses for their actions..

My .02

Best regards

CCJ

Fallschirmjäger said:

Nahhhhh... MDTA's facebook page clearly says it was because the driver was speeding.

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I thought you were joking. But you were not.

https://www.facebook.com/TheMDTA

What a farce. What professional law enforcement agency uses social media to bail themselves out of a jam?

Wow, I hardly thought it was possible, but my opinion of Maryland law enforcement actually just went even LOWER.

TFred

davidmcbeth said:

I got pulled over in NJ and the cop kept on asking me if I had any guns...I just sat there quite ... he got mad stomping up and down ... let em ... not my problem.

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David, can you go over this in a little more detail? I don't mistrust you, but find it hard to believe that a NJ cop, with their reputation allowed you to sit there quietly while he stomped up and down, then (presumably) let you go on your way.

He didn't make you get out of the car? He didn't bring in dogs? He didn't threaten anything?

If you have this on video, I'd love to see it, but failing that, maybe a description would be OK. If true, I'd like to use your 'method' if I ever encountered that scenario.

How fast were you going? Or was it equipment?

Did you get a ticket or were you let go with a warning?

TIA

TFred said:

This horrible story is being discussed over on one of the VCDL facebook pages.

The question that needs to be answered is this:

Does Virginia automatically send CHP information to out-of-state law enforcement agencies when they run a check on a plate or a driver's license?
...
TFred

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The CHP information is entered in VCIN (Virginia Criminal Identification Network). I have this on authority. I would not be surprised if there are ways for other LE to access this.

It may be that Florida has an analog to this and other LE can access that. It may be that they are now able to input this into the larger dB.

As you know they have license plate readers which can read the plate of a vehicle going 40mph PERPENDICULARLY to the officer's squad (making the window of view for the reader about 1/2 a second. They can read it from a distance of 50 yards, going that speed also. (I'm making an educated guess).

Anyway, this LEO had a device like this, read the plate, the computer linked it up and found the info in FLA's dB of permit holders and showed him he had a 'hit'.

They probably make a real effort to have this capability due to the likelihood of making a big bust as cars travel from FLA to the Northeast up the "contraband pipeline". That's probably why the LEO got away with it and the press didn't disclose his ID. He's a hired 'enforcer' type, on the job because of his rage issues and OCD and natural tenacity.

Again a guess...

Maverick9 said:

The CHP information is entered in VCIN (Virginia Criminal Identification Network). I have this on authority. I would not be surprised if there are ways for other LE to access this.

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If this is so, not doubting your source, just saying... IMHO, this should be one of the highest priorities for VCDL - until it is DONE:

To completely remove Virginia CHP information from all "criminal" databases.

There is ONE and ONLY ONE legitimate reason for the State of Virginia to voluntarily share CHP information, and that is with another state with which we have reciprocity, and ONLY in direct support of that agreement.

In other words, short of a court order or equivalent (for a specific individual), no Virginia agency should ever share any CHP information with any other state, except to validate a permit for a citizen who is exercising a reciprocity agreement.

What am I missing here?

TFred

TFred said:

--snipped--

What am I missing here?

TFred

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The control factor.

JohnM15A said:

Arrrrrg! What about non-resident UT? I guess this interactive map needs updating:

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

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Yes, Utah is still good in DE. The Virginia change was announced in the VCDL alerts several times.
I use the information at http://www.handgunlaw.us/ Gary seems to keep it more updated than the site you listed (and there has been evidence in the past that they cribbed the information from his site, too.)

Karel Denninger chimes in on this story

Apologies? **** you Maryland. Your "officer" committed felony assault (you go menace someone, refuse to allow them to leave, and have a sidearm on you at the time and then tell me what the charge laid against you happens to be.)

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=227665

Oops. Of course it is Karl Denninger. Can't edit titles.

Fallschirmjäger said:

Think of it in these terms...
Your state legalizes X behavior that's a felony in Y. You travel into Y and interact with law enforcement.
How do you think Y's police are going to react knowing that you're a felon (or you would be if you were one of that State's citizens)?

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Example:

You're a VA licensed driver in a rental car driving the toll road between Austin and San Antonio. Posted speed limit is 85 (highest in the USA). Doing 90, you get pulled over and are issued a $25 speeding ticket for five over. You mail in a check before leaving TX and think nothing more of it.

Three months later VA DMV gets a courtesy copy of the speeding ticket to assess points as appropriate.

You get tagged for Reckless Driving (over 80) by VA DMV even though you weren't in the state when it happened.

riverrat10k said:

Apologies? **** you Maryland. Your "officer" committed felony assault (you go menace someone, refuse to allow them to leave, and have a sidearm on you at the time and then tell me what the charge laid against you happens to be.)

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=227665

Oops. Of course it is Karl Denninger. Can't edit titles.

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Felony assault and kidnapping, you mean...er, 'he' means...oh whatever. :/

Bob1 said:

Example:
You're a VA licensed driver in a rental car driving the toll road between Austin and San Antonio. Posted speed limit is 85 (highest in the USA). Doing 90, you get pulled over and are issued a $25 speeding ticket for five over. You mail in a check before leaving TX and think nothing more of it.

Three months later VA DMV gets a courtesy copy of the speeding ticket to assess points as appropriate.

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I'm unclear, is that a hypothetical example, or a concrete example of what will happen?
What if you are a VA driver in Hawaii and get tapped for going 66 in a 60mph zone (max speed in HI being 60). The max speed in VA is 70, I think. Are they not going to assess points?
If I had such a situation I'd appeal as the conduct wasn't 'reckless' but a minor infraction.


AND, we're discussing a traffic infraction, not criminal law which was what I posted about.

If we could keep within the framework of crimes, both misdemeanor and felony, it would certainly speed things along.
What if you were issued a $5 ticket for smoking the wacky weed in BlueState but it was a lifetime felony in RedState, do you think RedState would put you in a dark hole for the rest of your life when the crime was reported to the NCIC?

Bob1 said:

--snipped--

You get tagged for Reckless Driving (over 80) by VA DMV even though you weren't in the state when it happened.

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By what law/authority?

Breaking a Maryland law does not make you guilty of anything in Virginia..............does it? :uhoh:

Grapeshot said:

By what law/authority?

Breaking a Maryland law does not make you guilty of anything in Virginia..............does it? :uhoh:

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When you're talking about the traffic point system, I guess it does. Fortunately, I have no experience with that.

What I don't know that I "buy" is the notion that Virginia laws can be applied to driving in other states. I'd need to see a cite for that before I would believe it.

TFred

Almost all states are sharing traffic infraction information now. If you get points in visitingstate-A the infraction will show up in homestate-B. Now, supposedly the points should be for whatever infraction is closest if there isn't a direct correlation.
If one state tags you for turning right on red, then you would get an illegal right turn in your homestate if they allowed right turns on red, if I remember the briefing correctly.

Georgia has a super-speeder law, if you're from a state that doesn't have that law and get tagged for it in Georgia, your infraction may easily cost a hundred or so more than you might have anticipated. But I'm unsure if that will affect any points in a state that doesn't have a super-speeder law. Traffic laws aren't really my interest, I've slowed down in my old age.

Fallschirmjäger said:

--snipped--
I've slowed down in my old age.

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A condition of which I am all too familiar - I would comment further, but then would have to cite myself.

Fallschirmjäger said:

Almost all states are sharing traffic infraction information now. If you get points in visitingstate-A the infraction will show up in homestate-B. Now, supposedly the points should be for whatever infraction is closest if there isn't a direct correlation.
If one state tags you for turning right on red, then you would get an illegal right turn in your homestate if they allowed right turns on red, if I remember the briefing correctly.

Georgia has a super-speeder law, if you're from a state that doesn't have that law and get tagged for it in Georgia, your infraction may easily cost a hundred or so more than you might have anticipated. But I'm unsure if that will affect any points in a state that doesn't have a super-speeder law. Traffic laws aren't really my interest, I've slowed down in my old age.

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I'd like to get User's opinion on the validity or the practice of points being added to the VA DL record for a traffic offense that occurred in another state.

I do know from long-past experience that if you get a ticket in another state and don't pay it, that when you go to renew your license in your home state your record will be flagged and you may not renew until you have "taken care of business" in the other state. It happened to me, which was my first (and only) run-in with inter-state databases. In that case, however, no points were ever assigned to my driving record for the out-of-state citation.

I'd find it passing strange to know that, having broken no Virginia traffic law that my driving record could be assessed points based on an infraction in another state. This whole idea of "If your home state does not have the same law, they will assess points based on the closest law they have to the one you violated elsewhere," to be unbelievable.

Update: A Must Read

All I can say is Wow.

If anyone can fish out the truth, these folks at Conservative Treehouse can.

Update On The Mr. Filippidis, Maryland Concealed Carry Driver Incident…

Very scary stuff. And I will say again, we need to do everything we can to protect Virginia citizens from this nightmare of abuse. This needs to be a legislative priority. I suspect right now the VSP serves it to them on a silver platter.

TFred

JamesCanby said:

I'd like to get User's opinion on the validity or the practice of points being added to the VA DL record for a traffic offense that occurred in another state.

I do know from long-past experience that if you get a ticket in another state and don't pay it, that when you go to renew your license in your home state your record will be flagged and you may not renew until you have "taken care of business" in the other state. It happened to me, which was my first (and only) run-in with inter-state databases. In that case, however, no points were ever assigned to my driving record for the out-of-state citation.

I'd find it passing strange to know that, having broken no Virginia traffic law that my driving record could be assessed points based on an infraction in another state. This whole idea of "If your home state does not have the same law, they will assess points based on the closest law they have to the one you violated elsewhere," to be unbelievable.

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You will want to research -
Driver License Compact(1960)
(Georgia, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Michigan, and Tennessee are not members.)
Driver License Agreement (1995)
Non Resident Violator Compact an interstate compact used by 44 states in the United States to process traffic citations across state borders. Wisconsin, California, Montana, Oregon, and Alaska are not a part of the NRVC.

There's also the National Driver Register which "keeps tabs on drivers who have had their licenses revoked or suspended, or who have been convicted of serious traffic violations such as driving while impaired by alcohol or drugs."

Re "...I'd find it passing strange to know that, having broken no Virginia traffic law that my driving record could be assessed points based on an infraction in another state..."
The best explanation I can find comes from Autos.Aol.com

Say you get cited for careless driving in Colorado but your home state has no such violation; in that case, your home state will look for the closest comparable citation it could issue, such as reckless driving, and assess points and penalties based on that. And the AAMVA is working to expand the DLA internationally, not only to Canada and Mexico but to Europe, Australia, and Africa as well. In the future, when you're caught speeding to the airport in Namibia, you'll have a hell of a time trying to renew your license in Pennsylvania.

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NB, it's not universal. Not yet, anyway.

Simple solution. You receive a ticket in NJ for a minor traffic violation ( Rolling thru a stop sign). You reside in VA.

You fail to pay the fine in NJ and VA now decides to exercise jurisdiction on the ticket and fine from NJ.. That's a no no...

You need to file a motion with the local VA court to have the charge and fee dismissed for lack of subject matter jurisdiction, and or request a hearing regarding the fine and ticket. Inform the court that you want to cross examine the witness or witnesses in your case.. I doubt the state of NJ officer will travel to VA for the hearing, Hence the charges and fine will disappear from your VA record.

If VA wants to stand in authority and act as an agent for NJ, then I say let them present any and all witnesses to support their bogus claim...

Just don't roll over and die.. Remember any claim over $20 requires a jury trial. File a MTD, if your motion is denied, request a jury trial...

VA cannot deny your right to due process nor deny your right to cross examine any witnesses against you and or your right to a jury trial, nor can they force you to travel back up to NJ to face your accusers.

If they deny you all of your above rights along with your natural right to travel, then file proper suit...

My .02

Best regards

CCJ

TFred said:

All I can say is Wow.

If anyone can fish out the truth, these folks at Conservative Treehouse can.

Update On The Mr. Filippidis, Maryland Concealed Carry Driver Incident…

Very scary stuff. And I will say again, we need to do everything we can to protect Virginia citizens from this nightmare of abuse. This needs to be a legislative priority. I suspect right now the VSP serves it to them on a silver platter.

TFred

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Nuts. I have friends and most of my relatives still in MD. Won't be visiting for a while, looks like...