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Thread: Boston homeowner in custody after fatally shooting masked intruder

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    Boston homeowner in custody after fatally shooting masked intruder

    "A Boston homeowner is in custody after fatally shooting one masked intruder and chasing another outside of his home with a firearm Wednesday morning, police said. [ ... ] The resident has not yet been charged with any crime because police are investigating whether he legally owned the firearm."

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...y-shooting-ma/

    The resident at 85 Esmond St. is also in custody, but has not yet been charged with any crime because police are trying to determine if he was licensed to possess a firearm, according to Evans and Gross.
    http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...DeO/story.html

    G00gle Real time coverage
    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...8548631dd27b23

    Police are trying to determine if he was legally allowed to carry a firearm and whether the shooting was justified.
    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/01/1...in-dorchester/
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-15-2014 at 02:47 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Chasing the perp outside the house may be the act that gets him in trouble.

    If the intruder bails, stop at the threshold and make sure they are not coming back. There is no need to go chasing them down the street.

    stay safe.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    "A Boston homeowner is in custody .............................The resident has not yet been charged.......... "
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...y-shooting-ma/

    Avoiding a knee jerk reaction and recognizing certain possibilites, it is rough that he is being held while they investigate possible charges.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-15-2014 at 04:01 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    "A Boston homeowner is in custody .............................The resident has not yet been charged.......... "
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...y-shooting-ma/

    Avoiding a knee jerk reaction and recognizing certain possibilites, it is rough that he is being held while they investigate possible charges.
    It's in Mass, not like civil rights matter in that state. Just look at what happened with the Boston Bombers, even though one was killed and the other arrested they won. They managed to set back liberties in Mass even further towards tyranny.
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    Drag em back into the house they always say ....

    Homeowner did nothing wrong here ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Chasing the perp outside the house may be the act that gets him in trouble.

    If the intruder bails, stop at the threshold and make sure they are not coming back. There is no need to go chasing them down the street.

    stay safe.
    Totally agree..

    This is a good case for getting the weapon first and worry about the permit/license and consequences later...

    My .02

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    CCJ
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Drag em back into the house they always say ....

    Homeowner did nothing wrong here ...
    Even in jest, that is very bad advise. Do not tamper with evidence.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Totally agree..

    This is a good case for getting the weapon first and worry about the permit/license and consequences later...

    My .02

    Best regards

    CCJ
    This is even worse advice. Hopefully in jest but not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    This is even worse advice. Hopefully in jest but not sure.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    I never jest about death.. The reason homeowner is being detained is because the police are trying to ascertain if he has a permit or license for the weapon... I conclude that being detained for lack of a permit/license or even being charge as such, is a much better position to be in then lying in the morgue. Do you not agree?

    My .02

    Best regards

    CCJ
    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 01-15-2014 at 05:48 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Planning ahead and taking personal responsibility is the best option.

    Understand that this may have proven difficult to accomplish in Massachusetts.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    This is even worse advice. Hopefully in jest but not sure.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Bernie Goetz is alive because of this exact advice. He was convicted of weapons charges, he IS still alive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Chasing the perp outside the house may be the act that gets him in trouble.

    If the intruder bails, stop at the threshold and make sure they are not coming back. There is no need to go chasing them down the street.
    I see nothing legally wrong with the pursuit. Was he firing at the fleeing bad guy?

    Aren't you allowed to detain a home invader? Wouldn't you still be allowed to do so if you run after him and catch him?

    I'm not saying you should, it could be a very poor tactical decision. But I see nothing legally wrong in the chase, but it could set you up for the wrong end of a lawsuit in those kinds of states, especially if things got ugly after the chase.
    Last edited by MAC702; 01-15-2014 at 05:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I see nothing legally wrong with the pursuit. Was he firing at the fleeing bad guy?

    Aren't you allowed to detain a home invader? Wouldn't you still be allowed to do so if you run after him and catch him?

    I'm not saying you should, it could be a very poor tactical decision. But I see nothing legally wrong in the chase, but it could set you up for the wrong end of a lawsuit in those kinds of states, especially if things got ugly after the chase.
    I agree bad tactical decision, but as long as he was not shooting at the fleeing felon I see nothing illegal about it.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    A citizen in MA. is required to have a purchase permit and also a license and a firearm ID is required... Cite google search.

    It is quite possible that this homeowner could not qualify for a permit or license and therefore he would not have a FID card. And it is quite possible that the homeowner without the weapon would be on a slab down at the morgue.

    I do not know any reasonable minded person that would rather be laying on a slab at the morgue. However I don't get around much.

    My .02

    Best regards

    CCJ
    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 01-15-2014 at 06:06 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    I never jest about death.. The reason homeowner is being detained is because the police are trying to ascertain if he has a permit or license for the weapon... I conclude that being detained for lack of a permit/license or even being charge as such, is a much better position to be in then lying in the morgue. Do you not agree?

    My .02

    Best regards

    CCJ
    1. I can't imagine he was detained any longer then a few minutes maybe hrs tops in regards to the LTC issue. I say this based on either he has one or he doesn't. If he does, then he can produce said license and a check with NCIC and/or issuing authority will verify its validity.

    I agree the last place you want to be is the morgue. A close to second last place is cedar junction correctional facility.

    FIDs are shall issue in MA as long as you meet requirements (age,etc). So there's literally no reason you can't own a non large capacity rifle/shotgun for home defense. The craziness everyone talks about is the LTC A and B which is irrelevant with home defense except to those that say a non large capacity pistol (class B) or a large capacity pistol (class A) are better then a good old pump shotgun.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    That Asst. Chief that I talked to was very clear, do not chase a BG down the street. Responding officers see a gun in hand and presume all sorts of things that almost always never work out in the gun holders favor. Stay in your house, or at a minimum, in your yard. He did say, put your pistol in your back pocket so that the officers can see you hands when they arrive.

    Good advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    That Asst. Chief that I talked to was very clear, do not chase a BG down the street. Responding officers see a gun in hand and presume all sorts of things that almost always never work out in the gun holders favor. Stay in your house, or at a minimum, in your yard. He did say, put your pistol in your back pocket so that the officers can see you hands when they arrive.

    Good advice.
    But it is just that, tactical, not legal, advice.

    And what was his reason? So as not to be yet another good guy shot by cops...
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    But it is just that, tactical, not legal, advice.

    And what was his reason? So as not to be yet another good guy shot by cops...
    Well legally usually ( not saying always or never) once your chasing someone (key word) with a firearm you can be seen as the aggressor. We don't have a stand your ground law so if you did chase them and they turned around and you shot or injured then you would/could be held accountable.

    We at least have castle doctrine ( I have the jury instructions somewhere). I have heard of some cases where guys have used self defense and were not found guilty but that's usually when your getting attacked and can't flee.

    And yes the unspoken/spoken idea is that you don't run around with a gun in your hand because you risk being shot by the good guys. Again... gun in hand running /chasing.

    There is about a billion variables in these what if scenarios. Like how far did this guy "chase" the other guy? A few feet or 3 blocks? Did he chase while on the phone calling for help and giving a description?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Even in jest, that is very bad advise. Do not tamper with evidence.
    yes yes...


    The guy chased down and stopped a felon and prevented him from committing another crime; why would the law not support such actions?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    yes yes...

    The guy chased down and stopped a felon and prevented him from committing another crime; why would the law not support such actions?
    The lawsof many (most?) states would not support that action.

    In Virginia there are only two (2) ways to beat a homicide charge - it is either justified or excuseable and you will need to convince a judge or jury of that if you are charged.
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Justifiable+or+Excusable+Homicide


    The concept of justifiable homicide in criminal law stands on the dividing line between an excuse, justification and an exculpation. It differs from other forms of homicide in that, due to certain circumstances, the homicide is justified as preventing greater harm to innocents. A homicide can only be justified if there is sufficient evidence to suggest that it was reasonable to believe that the offending party posed an imminent threat to the life or well being of another.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    If I am reading the OP correctly the subject did not shoot the fleeing felon, only chased him. Not bright, but not illegal.

    The person he did shoot in his house in most states it is legal. But we are talking about Mass, and Boston to boot.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The lawsof many (most?) states would not support that action.

    In Virginia there are only two (2) ways to beat a homicide charge - it is either justified or excuseable and you will need to convince a judge or jury of that if you are charged.
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Justifiable+or+Excusable+Homicide


    The concept of justifiable homicide in criminal law stands on the dividing line between an excuse, justification and an exculpation. It differs from other forms of homicide in that, due to certain circumstances, the homicide is justified as preventing greater harm to innocents. A homicide can only be justified if there is sufficient evidence to suggest that it was reasonable to believe that the offending party posed an imminent threat to the life or well being of another.

    Cite, please.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The lawsof many (most?) states would not support that action.

    In Virginia there are only two (2) ways to beat a homicide charge - it is either justified or excuseable and you will need to convince a judge or jury of that if you are charged.
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Justifiable+or+Excusable+Homicide


    The concept of justifiable homicide in criminal law stands on the dividing line between an excuse, justification and an exculpation. It differs from other forms of homicide in that, due to certain circumstances, the homicide is justified as preventing greater harm to innocents. A homicide can only be justified if there is sufficient evidence to suggest that it was reasonable to believe that the offending party posed an imminent threat to the life or well being of another.
    Even my commie state allows one to kill if a fleeing felon is tried to be stopped by a citizen....and in most states, self defense is plead and then the state must prove its wrong.

    You should work to change it in your state, cause its messed up. Assuming correctness of post of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    "A Boston homeowner is in custody .............................The resident has not yet been charged.......... "
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...y-shooting-ma/

    Avoiding a knee jerk reaction and recognizing certain possibilites, it is rough that he is being held while they investigate possible charges.
    Detained but NOT arrested.... hence no violation of ANY of his Constitutional rights as he must PROVE that he is LAWFUL to live in his home, protect it, and to keep and bear arms without infringement!

    / please note some sarcasm!
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Cite, please.
    PDF]The Burden of Proving Self-Defense in Homicide Cases - Scholarly ...

    scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...‎
    by RE Bailey - ‎1948 - ‎Cited by 1 - ‎Related articles
    decided by the Supreme Court of Appeals of Virginia. According to the .... in self-defense can the homicide be said to be excusable as a matter of law, Ison v.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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