Open Carry-Jefferson County

SPCfestus · Jan 16, 2014

Hey y'all so completely new to the page. Have been cruising the forum for about 7 months but finally came across a question I can't answer.

So I'm from Jeffco, Festus specifically. I've been looking through all the codes for towns in the area and I'm having trouble finding firearms ordinances at all in most. I sent an email to the Festus Police Chief, Tim Lewis, and asked about Festus. He said its completely legal to OC however he couldn't remember the ordinance that deals with firearms at the time. I'm just really trying to find the codes so that I can have a folder with them when I come home. I know I won't prove it is legal, however I can show it's not ILLEGAL.

I found an ordinance that appears to say Crystal City is OC OK. In Art. VI Section 17-94(a) but I'm not sure, I got that off municode. I've looked on there and can't find Festus, desoto or Herculaneum. I know desoto was addressed in the past but that thread was from almost 3 years ago now. Since it seems like Crystal may have changed their stance I'm hoping that Desoto has as well.

If anyone has the municode for any of the towns in the area or even just where you know I can find them that'd be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
SPC Provo

kcgunfan · Jan 16, 2014

In the US, laws tell you what you can't do, not what you can. So, if you can't find anything that makes it illegal, it's legal. And don't ask the police for legal advice, it's not a good plan.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

SPCfestus · Jan 16, 2014

Normally I wouldn't ask the police for legal advice. Only reason I asked Chief Lewis is because he is a pretty good friend of the family. And I'm pretty sure he wouldn't stear me wrong for fear my water clerk mom may turn his water off haha.

But I know about the if the law doesn't say thing. I tried explaining that but I'm not the best with words...kinda why I joined the Infantry haha.

OC for ME · Jan 16, 2014

Urgent!!!!!

Title II, Chapter 210, Article VI, Section 210.250: WEAPONS -- CARRYING CONCEALED -- OTHER UNLAWFUL USE

A. A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons if he/she knowingly:

10. Openly carries or discharges a firearm or openly carries any other weapon readily capable of lethal use within the City limits; *or

http://z2codes.sullivanpublications.com/sullivan/Z2Browser2.html?showset=festusset

I would ask Chief Lewis, of Festus, if he is familiar with the above code. There is not listed a exemption for a citizen who holds a CCW endorsement. Wentzville, for example, "permits" OC if you have a CCW endorsement.

Do not OC in Festus!

OC for ME · Jan 16, 2014

OC for ME said:
I would ask Chief Lewis, of Festus, if he is familiar with the above code. <snip>

Do not OC in Festus!

Ask Chief Lewis what his policy is regarding OCers. Ask Chief Lewis what the department policy is regarding OCers. I would not OC in Festus unless the chief shows you the latest city code, in writing.

kcgunfan · Jan 16, 2014

And right there are 2 reasons why you don't seek legal advice from the police (there are many more...)

1. If the police are wrong, it's you that are going to jail, not them. Even if the Police Chief is a family friend and your Mom shuts his water off. Do you trust them that much? From the previous post, your trust may be misplaced.
2. Nothing requires the police to tell you the truth. Normally, they will tell you something is illegal when it's not, but there's no reason they can't go the other way.

OC for ME · Jan 16, 2014

OC for ME said:
Ask Chief Lewis what his policy is regarding OCers. Ask Chief Lewis what the department policy is regarding OCers. I would not OC in Festus unless the chief shows you the latest city code, in writing.

Your liberty, and financial well being, is at risk based on what the chief thinks vs. what he knows.

There is a RSMo that could, maybe, if you're real luck, get off the hook, because you claim ignorance of the law. The Chief said OC is legal, then it must be legal, except the code is far too easy to locate and you must prove that you looked really really hard and the only thing available was the chief's word on the matter.

SPCfestus · Jan 16, 2014

I just sent out another email addressing the ordinance you posted. I'm still trying to find on here somewhere...I saw another thread where someone had mentioned that that website was outdated for Festus and that thy had changed it recently. Hopefully Chief Lewis can clear it up, however I also asked him for who I should be talking to in regards to this information.

Plus my moms working her channels now too to clear it up. Now with the him being a family friend thing. I only know that he would answer to the best of his understanding. He did tell me in his first response that he was going to look into it and try to get me he actual law on it. That was a few days ago and he hasn't gotten back yet so I'm glad the law was posted on here so I could reference it, thanks.

OC for ME · Jan 16, 2014

SPCfestus said:
I just sent out another email addressing the ordinance you posted. <snip>

Please be advised that if the chief shows you the current code, in writing, he cannot come back later and say that he did not know the current law. Verify that department policy, his policy, and the law are consistent. It does a citizen no good if the law is on your side, but policy is not.

Cops don't want to make "unlawful" arrests or "unwarranted" detainments, but, knowledge that they hold today may not be consistent with the law as it is written today.

SPCfestus · Jan 16, 2014

I've got mixed messages already. I wish I could quote the ordinance but I just shot my mom a text and she said she ran into an officer at public works building this morning and asked him. He said it is definitely legal. The department policy is very pro OC as is the chiefs. He said he was going to bring in a copy of the law later on today.

Now it's 8pm in the Stan already so I may not be able to post the exact ordinance when she sends it but if she doesn't forget and does send it then I will most definitely post it on here ASAP. Ok also gonna have her get a copy of the policies for the department and the chief.

OC for ME · Jan 16, 2014

...it's 8pm in the Stan...

As in Afghanistan? you are not currently in MO it seems.

Good luck and be safe.

SPCfestus · Jan 16, 2014

Yes like in Afghanistan. So no not currently in Missouri. But I'll be there again shortly. I'm just trying to sort out the laws before I get home. I'd hate to see the news headline if I don't...
"Returning Soldier goes on PTSD rampage, Has holstered weapon on hip in festus Walmart"

Turbo v6 camaro · Jan 16, 2014

SPCfestus said:
Yes like in Afghanistan. So no not currently in Missouri. But I'll be there again shortly. I'm just trying to sort out the laws before I get home. I'd hate to see the news headline if I don't...
"Returning Soldier goes on PTSD rampage, Has holstered weapon on hip in festus Walmart"

technically the food side of Walmart is in crystal city in witch open carry is legal. ( the line literally cuts through the store lol)

in fact we had an OC meeting in crystal city last year.

I live in festus and would like to find the law too, the law when i read it was very out dated (did not recognize CCW even though the state has preemption)

also question for the guy that said " check chief, and station policy"

so wait s second lat i know the chiefs and staion policy does not over ride fed/state/local laws ..

if itls not against the law to OC the local police "policy" has no legal bearing correct?

so are you saying that because you just get hassled more?

SPCfestus · Jan 17, 2014

Found out last night that my mom has access to city laws through the public works building. I passed out before she had a chance to tell me what she found. Also Chief Lewis has yet to get back on what law he is referencing. However, he insists and assured me that he would not steer me wrong. He said his policy as well as the departments is OC OK. Luckily my mom also has easy access to their written policies so she was going to look them up too. As soon as my mom finds all of it in the city database and sends it to me ill post it on here.

OC for ME · Jan 17, 2014

Turbo v6 camaro said:
<snip>

I live in festus and would like to find the law too, the law when i read it was very out dated (did not recognize CCW even though the state has preemption)

A link to the Festus code is provided in a earlier post of mine.

Turbo v6 camaro said:
also question for the guy that said " check chief, and station policy"

so wait s second last i know the chiefs and station policy does not over ride fed/state/local laws ..

Policy does not override code/law. Policy determines what the cops do and how to "enforce" code/laws. You may have read around here on OCDO about sheriffs who will not enforce unconstitutional anti-gun laws. Those are policy statements.

Turbo v6 camaro said:
if it's not against the law to OC the local police "policy" has no legal bearing correct?

so are you saying that because you just get hassled more?

Possibly. If the chief can not cite the law (lack of a prohibition) I would not OC until that misunderstanding is rectified. Heck, the chief should be able to pull up on his work computer the city code.....I did it in less than 30 seconds.

SPCfestus · Jan 17, 2014

From what he said he looked up the law. He just didnt get to me with it. He did say that the law you posted earlier is now outdated and there has been a new law passed much more recently.

SPCfestus · Jan 17, 2014

Ok, so got an answer. And at the same time more confusion. The city ordinance is the same as has been posted in this thread. Supposedly they are rewriting it. Because they are "rewriting" it the Chief/Station policy is to enforce State law not local.....I am so glad that once again the City of Festus lives up to it's reputation of making everything difficult, no matter how easy it is...

Griz · Jan 17, 2014

I frequent the Crystal City / Festus area. Always carried concealed there because I could never figure out which law applied where. Thanks for working on this, looking forward to seeing the results.

OC for ME · Jan 20, 2014

In fact, it should be really easy. here ya go:

SECTION 210.250: WEAPONS -- CARRYING CONCEALED -- OTHER UNLAWFUL USE

A. A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons if he/she knowingly:

1. Carries concealed upon or about his/her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;

2. Sets a spring gun;

3. Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in Section 302.010, RSMo., or any building or structure used for the assembling of people;

4. Exhibits, in the presence of one (1) or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner;

5. Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;

6. Discharges a firearm within one hundred (100) yards of any occupied schoolhouse, courthouse, or church building;

7. Discharges or shoots a firearm at a mark, at any object, or at random on or along or across a public highway or discharges or shoots a firearm into any outbuilding;

8. Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the Federal Government, State Government, or political subdivision thereof;

9. Discharges or shoots a firearm at or from a motor vehicle, as defined in Section 301.010, RSMo., discharges or shoots a firearm at any person, or at any other motor vehicle, or at any building or habitable structure, unless the person was lawfully acting in self-defense;

[strike]10. Openly carries or discharges a firearm or openly carries any other weapon readily capable of lethal use within the City limits; *or [/strike]

[strike]11[/strike] 10. Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

Just sayin.

Open Carry-Jefferson County

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