PistolPackingMomma
Regular Member
You guess wrong; I have heard that saying. I like this one better "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Explain how mandatory service is not the antithesis of freedom.
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Where is the due process? - vet loses 2A rights due to PTSD
- Thread starter Augustin
- Start date
You guess wrong; I have heard that saying. I like this one better "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Explain how mandatory service is not the antithesis of freedom.
Primus
Regular Member
I don't have I have to explain anything. Its an opinion.
But for the hell of it and because its something ive thought of for a while...
As I said before there are clear threats to this country from the outside. What keeps them away is the military. So by partaking in the military even for a very short time (3 years or maybe even less) you have a direct hand in supporting your freedoms. Iran doesn't give two figs about our constitution or our natural rights.
Also, a short stint in the military would allow a chance to learn skilled training (job specific) and basic training for when you get out. It would also keep our armed forces fresh.
You do realize there are guys on 6 plus tours of overseas right? So its cool that they do 6 while some other able bodied guys sit home and play world of war craft? I personally don't think it is. Again just opinion no more no less.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
The clear threats to this country is the government. Anything from outside the borders of this country would not be a threat if? Wait for it! We minded our own business, and kept our nose to ourselves.
PistolPackingMomma
Regular Member
But, but, the foreigners want to take our rights to not self incriminate, to be free from unreasonable search and seizures, our right to due process...oh, wait, I'm thinking of politicians.
But the foreigners are spying on us!...no, wait, that's the NSA.
Who is endangering our freedoms again?
SFCRetired
Regular Member
But, but, the foreigners want to take our rights to not self incriminate, to be free from unreasonable search and seizures, our right to due process...oh, wait, I'm thinking of politicians.
But the foreigners are spying on us!...no, wait, that's the NSA.
Who is endangering our freedoms again?
I would say that our rights and freedoms are being endangered on two fronts, one foreign and one domestic. The need is for us, and I do mean all of us, to take back our government from the professional politicians who have taken it away from us. The preferred methods are to push strenuously for strict term limits in all elected offices, make it harder for the very wealthy (Bloomberg comes to mind) to use their wealth to run for public office. There were allegations many years back that Joe Kennedy, in effect, bought the White House for JFK.
As concerns the NSA; I think their usefulness as an intelligence-gathering agency has been fatally compromised.
While I am not in favor of universal military service, I do think that every young man and young woman should do two years of some sort of service (VA hospitals come immediately to mind) upon graduation from high school or their eighteenth birthday. There are some folks, and I've seen my share of them, who just cannot adjust to military life. Those same folks do quite well in other environments.
Primus
Regular Member
Well said SFC. I can get behind that clarification. A few years of some service for the country. Earn the rights others have bled and died for. Earn the rights that others still walk around broken for.
Ironic the guys who stand and fight are the guys that lose some of those very same rights when they get home. But the others who refuse still reap the benefits. Been multi threads on here recently about veterans getting screwed.
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Thundar
Regular Member
David, you sniveling twit.
OK David, you sniveling twit. Go park your nonsensical sarcasm somewhere else. There are many who think service is a somewhat noble cause. Believe me there is sacrifice and pain, but there is also duty and honor.
Whether you agree with the manner in which politicians have used the military, you should not make snide comments about those that have served. Remember the biggest recruitment day was the day after the towers fell. The world is not a pretty and just place. Be thankful, not pejorative, towards those that step forward and serve.
OK David, you sniveling twit. Go park your nonsensical sarcasm somewhere else. There are many who think service is a somewhat noble cause. Believe me there is sacrifice and pain, but there is also duty and honor.
Whether you agree with the manner in which politicians have used the military, you should not make snide comments about those that have served. Remember the biggest recruitment day was the day after the towers fell. The world is not a pretty and just place. Be thankful, not pejorative, towards those that step forward and serve.
davidmcbeth
Banned
OK...you know I'm a vet, right?
And my post was to advise folks not to join (unless they like to be subjected to endless medical exams meant to strip them of their RKBA rights~~what? the military/gov't wants to take away my rights? Duh, YES..they want to take away everyone's rights and with who's help? The military's.) .. hence prior to them becoming members.
I guess for you "sniveling twit" means "smart guy".
SFCRetired
Regular Member
While I infrequently agree with davidmcbeth, I will reluctantly concede that he is right on this one. After service in the Regular Army, National Guard, and Active Reserve spanning a period from 1961 to 1991 and after listening to my son, and other AD members, tell stories of the way it is in the services nowadays, I can only counsel the young people who ask me about it to think long and hard.
I had recruiters promise me the moon only to find out they lied and I have sat with young people thinking about joining and listened to the recruiter lie. They get a tad upset when you call them on it. Son was, involuntarily, a recruiter and related that extreme pressure was put on them to "make their numbers" by any means possible. I have never been more proud of my son than when he told me, "Dad, I can't lie to these kids!"
Then, after they have completed one, or more, tours of duty in places no human being should have to go, they come back home and are treated as potential criminals.
I tell the ones who are considering joining to do one enlistment, get everything they can out of it, and then get out! It is not the career it was when I first went in. And it is even worse now than it was when I retired in 1991.
One other comment: As perversely as the civilian politicians have used the military, the politicians in uniform are even worse.
I had recruiters promise me the moon only to find out they lied and I have sat with young people thinking about joining and listened to the recruiter lie. They get a tad upset when you call them on it. Son was, involuntarily, a recruiter and related that extreme pressure was put on them to "make their numbers" by any means possible. I have never been more proud of my son than when he told me, "Dad, I can't lie to these kids!"
Then, after they have completed one, or more, tours of duty in places no human being should have to go, they come back home and are treated as potential criminals.
I tell the ones who are considering joining to do one enlistment, get everything they can out of it, and then get out! It is not the career it was when I first went in. And it is even worse now than it was when I retired in 1991.
One other comment: As perversely as the civilian politicians have used the military, the politicians in uniform are even worse.
This is just the "tip of the iceburg".
With the advent of ObamaCare, your medical details will be shared with all those "alphabet agencies", DHS, IRS, TSA, FBI, etc. Take an anti-depressant, lose your 2A rights. Take Ritalin (et. al), same thing. Have post-partum depression, yep, lose your gun rights. You won't be "allowed" to have any medical privacy.
EXACTLY! Somebody gets it. Medical privacy is completely gone.
But it happened under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, and not as a result of Obamacare.
Specifically, sections 13101 through 13434 of the bill set up the infrastructure to computerize medical records in a government-coordinated database.
It didn't mandate that the data will be held in a giant government computer, but it did mandate that your medical records be reduced to a computerized form.
That way carnivore surveillance systems can scan the records for keywords like PSTD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, etc. so that the mental health diagnoses can be easily included in the NICS system.
But I sincerely doubt that they will strip away your 2A rights because you are taking a psychotropic drug, but instead it will be because of a DSM diagnosis.
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Wow, you are brainwashed.
We knew about the Japanese attack long before it happened. EVEN if you don't believe that. The history channel found one of the submarines that we had engaged over 2 hours before the Pearl Harbor event. Our navel units were told to stand down and allow them to pass.
As for the Jihads, which ones are you referring to? The ones that we trained and funded or the ones our "allies" still control or are you talking about the spacehole in the Whitehouse and his friends?
As for collapsing the US and having our rights recognized.... Well it's collapsing with out the input of N Korea, Russia, Germany, Al ciada, etc.
If the terrorist are the ones who are attacking our rights and we need to attack them, then we need to destroy the Federal Reserve bank and kick all the bankster gangsters out of our country. We would also have to arrest all of their pawns and that means arresting almost all the elected officials AND all of their aids, assistants, and advisers.
As for keeping my rights if N Korea came a knocking, I figure I'd more more free if they attacked us openly right now than I am under the illusion of freedom that we live under now. Those who would want to rob us of out liberties would be too busy dealing with an outside 'problem' to bother stripping me/us of any further liberties.
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Now, see, if we did that then the military industrial complex would not be making big money for those elected officials who's elections are bought and paid for using money stolen from us, paid to them, and the given to the officials.
The other problem is that the international banks would not be making money off of more,open, bloodshed like in the 'Civil' war, WW1, WW2, and other military engaged conflicts. The bankers lend the money to all sides of a war and then collect all of the loans from the winner(s).
OC for ME
Regular Member
"Earn"..."rights"?
If a "price" is levied on a right, as a predicate for the right to be exercised, then it is not a right. Your service to our country is noted and I am thankful. Unfortunately many "ex-soldiers" believe as you do.
Where would the military be without those who do not, and never, will serve. Regarding the "home front", it is advised to study up on the subject. While I am loath to cite wikipedia, however.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_home_front_during_World_War_II
I recommend that you look inwards as to what validates this opinion that you hold regarding rights and earning them.
JTHunter and all,
Very true, Obamacare did further erode the last traces of medical privacy. This was discussed many times in the mainstream media and was all over the internet. It is a common tool of tyranny to use multiple laws to cover the same thing in case one law is challenged or overturned.
You may remember when Congressman Joe Barton of Texas was all over TV claiming that a line of source code embedded in the software of the Obamacare website violated HIPAA. During a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing Barton grilled Cheryl Campbell of CGI Federal (the key contractor responsible for building the Healthcare.gov website) saying, “How in the world can this website be HIPAA-compliant when HIPAA is designed to protect the patient’s privacy?”
Barton continued to hammer the woman - who probably doesn’t know a HIPAA from a hippo - adding, “You know it’s not HIPAA compliant; admit it. You’re under oath. Your company is the company that put this together. We’re telling every American... that you sign up for this or even attempt to, you have no expectation of privacy. That is a direct contradiction of HIPAA and you know it.”
Then there was the big debate about whether or not Obamacare REQUIRED doctors to ask their patients about gun ownership. Despite many freedom-oriented website's claim that it did, it eventually came out that this was NOT true.
So in January 2013 Obama signed 23 Executive Actions that were intended to reduce gun violence. One of them was to "clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/01/16/read-full-list-of-23-gun-violence-reduction-executive-actions/
In response to Obama's EO and also because of widespread concerns by gun owners that computerized medical records might be used to collect and information about gun ownership, my state of Montana passed a new law - MCA 50-16-108 - that prohibits doctors and other health care providers from asking patients questions about gun ownership, possession or use. This new law only allows doctors to ask a patient if they are in possession of a firearm at the time of treatment.
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/montana-health-care-privacy-becomes.html
The bill reads,
"50-16-108. Privacy in health care -- ownership of firearms. (1) No health care provider or health care facility may:
(a) refuse to provide health care to a person because the person declines to answer any questions concerning the person's ownership, possession, or use of firearms; or
(b) inquire about a person's ownership, possession, or use of firearms as a condition of receiving health care.
(2) For the purposes of this section:
(a) the terms "health care", "health care facility", and "health care provider" have the meanings provided in 50-16-504; and
(b) the term "possession" does not apply to the presence of a firearm on the person of a patient at the time of treatment."
Primus
Regular Member
Oc I understand where your coming from and I respect that.
Its just hard pill to swallow to have to go through the crap we have so others get enjoy those same rights.
Now in particular if we are focusing on the bill of rights and the us constitution then those should be bestowed upon those who are willing to fight and sacrifice for those around them. Not just because your born here even illegally.
Hell technically a illegal immigrant has an anchor baby here and that baby has more rights then a vet who's fought and been injured fighting for this country. There are plenty of non-citizen soldiers who still fight and get jacked up so those anchor babies can grow up with free college and the right to vote more politicians in to let more of their families in.
I'm sorry I may seem like an a** for believing it but I'm speaking from someone who's made my sacrifice in more then one way. Not to mention my family. Its a good point you bring up about the home front.
For example, my wife stuck it out with me for the 19 mths 17 days I was in country and almost 2 years I was gone. She still sticks it out with me and any residual problems. Shes not a citizen. She has a green card. So after her sacrificing years of her life to support me... she gets nothing. Still has to pay the crazy fees and wait in like just like the border jumpers. Can still be deported if they so choose. Has to do all that when others sit on their couches and watch it on TV and enjoy their rights since their mother happened to crap them out here.
I know I'm biased and cynical. But I'm not bashful or ashamed of it.
Again I respect your opinion we just have different ones.
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moonie
Regular Member
I have a good friend that has PTSD, he was turned down for his concealed permit, he has no trouble getting a PPP however. Luckily all of his firearms were tragically lost in a boating accident...
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
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Primus
Regular Member
A better & direct quote from that thread -
Interesting. How is it they are diagnosing the soldiers for TBI in this new system? I currently have four TBIs and there ain’t any damned way anyone can tell. I’m serious as a heart attack on that.
Oh well. No surprise. Really sucks when this kind of crap starts happening to vets, but sadly it seems the only time anyone does anything about it is if it’s happening to vets. I know of perfectly sane & logical people with zero criminal history that have been denied their rights, including the right to vote, just because they have Traumatic Brain Injury...and that has been happening for literally decades. DECADES. Only now anyone gives a damn because it’s now happening to vets.
It seems everything is just fine and hunky dorey until it's happening to a vet and then it's HOLOCAUST! I served and I don't think that's right.
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OC for ME
Regular Member
Cops claim PTSD after killing a citizen, are they disbarred their 2A?