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Just to reinforce what we know...JUST SAY NO.

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Can you substantiate that claim, " The overwhelming majority of LEO interactions with citizens are lawful and courteous."? I have no idea of what evidence you could put forth supporting that contention. SOME believe our police are out of control. There are communities and cities that have lost all accountability of their police to the people they serve.

How can you maintain the position that there is no problem with our out of control police when the U.S. Department of Justice has investigated and by court order has taken control and restructured over twenty five police departments in major U.S. cities for civil rights violations and corruption?

Nothing isolated about that. Cincinnati. New York City. Seattle. New Orleans. Miami. Prince George's County Md. There's more. Billions paid out of taxpayer money to cover civil rights violations at the hands of police. Chicago, 64 million. New York City, over a BILLION.

Further. Who assigned you arbitrator, determining for ME what is a tolerable amount of deceit? A tolerable amount of rape, brutal beatings, killings, terroristic behavior [organized systematic intimidation is terrorism]?

Do not presume you decide for me what is tolerable. Do not presume to declare for me what shall be an "isolated incident".

Among other things, personal experience. I have had hundreds of encounters with cops. Only two involved oppressive behavior from the cop. Since that happened because I was OCing, I suspect that I have had a far greater percentage of bad cop encounters than the overwhelming majority of others.

Oh, and then there is common sense. We know that cops have thousands of interactions with people over the course of a year. Multiply that by even just thousands of cops and you get millions of interactions. The instances posted here are isolated inside those kinds of numbers.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
You're not doing a very good job of leaving.

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Let me explain it to you yet again. Maybe you will get it this time. I doubt it, but maybe.

I moved on from discussing with SVG. FM posted a rational question. I answered it. You posted childishness. I pointed that out. Moving on now from this interaction with you. If FM continues a rational discussion with me, I will not move on from that.

Do you get it yet?
 
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Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
Making baseless assertions backed with only anecdotal evidence and entirely made up numbers. All to attack a strawman.

I don't give one flying **** how nice you think the cops are toward you, if that cop turns around and violates the next person's rights, they are a bad cop.

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
like most of eye's hyperbole, there seems to be a tendency for him to exaggerate just a smidge...

just a smidge...

wait didn't he move on, yet again?

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
counting being stopped by traffic the most encounters i could muster on a rough scale...is maybe, 30, max over a lifetime of wandering this earth...

ipse
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
How about the 6,613 complaints against officers in the country in 2010. The source of that number is the Cato institute. A few are familiar with that site and the thread its in.

So if you have 6,613 complaints I would suffice that a a pretty bad experience they put a formal complaint in.

Well..... there were over 700,000 officers employed in the us in that same year. So 6,613 out of 700,000 not counting any officers with multiple complaints.

You do the math.

The 700,00 cane from the FBI website and the 6,613 came from the catos "let's find bad cops study"

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Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
How about the 6,613 complaints against officers in the country in 2010. The source of that number is the Cato institute. A few are familiar with that site and the thread its in.

So if you have 6,613 complaints I would suffice that a a pretty bad experience they put a formal complaint in.

Well..... there were over 700,000 officers employed in the us in that same year. So 6,613 out of 700,000 not counting any officers with multiple complaints.

You do the math.

The 700,00 cane from the FBI website and the 6,613 came from the catos "let's find bad cops study"

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

That is recorded complaints and does not count those who have not filed a complaint our of fear of filing one. I've heard stories about people being harassed by the police after filing a complaint against them.


So, multiply that given number by another number......
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
How about the 6,613 complaints against officers in the country in 2010. The source of that number is the Cato institute. A few are familiar with that site and the thread its in.

So if you have 6,613 complaints I would suffice that a a pretty bad experience they put a formal complaint in.

Well..... there were over 700,000 officers employed in the us in that same year. So 6,613 out of 700,000 not counting any officers with multiple complaints.

You do the math.

The 700,00 cane from the FBI website and the 6,613 came from the catos "let's find bad cops study"

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Complaints? You don't pay attention well do you.

I used to have fun with complaints and the police, guess what they don't keep them.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Making baseless assertions backed with only anecdotal evidence and entirely made up numbers. All to attack a strawman.

I don't give one flying **** how nice you think the cops are toward you, if that cop turns around and violates the next person's rights, they are a bad cop.

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk

Nice to have you back!

+ 1 to the post. Also to some who love police they call them good encounters when if you were to look at it constitutionally and from a liberty standpoint, they were nothing of the sort.


We have a cop on this forum who support the use of force video shown a few months back was a "good stop".
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
That is recorded complaints and does not count those who have not filed a complaint our of fear of filing one. I've heard stories about people being harassed by the police after filing a complaint against them.


So, multiply that given number by another number......

Ok.. so multiply it by... 2? 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10?
At 2 its 12,000 our of 700,000..... and again some are guaranteed on the same officer. At 10 times , which I doubt is true, it 60,000 out of 700,000. That's what? Less then 10%? So less then 10% (based on INFLATED numbers to account for your supposed complaints) of officers have ever had a complaint filed. So it'd be safe to say if an officer never had a complaint filed (because again that number takes in the missing and or non complaints due to fear) they wouldn't be violating peoples rights or having "bad encounters".

So 10% of encounters are bad. Damn..... the whole barrel is rotten.... sarcasm.




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Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
The issue isn't that every cop is violating people's rights, it is that the so called good cops cover for the bad ones.

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Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Ok.. so multiply it by... 2? 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10?
At 2 its 12,000 our of 700,000..... and again some are guaranteed on the same officer. At 10 times , which I doubt is true, it 60,000 out of 700,000. That's what? Less then 10%? So less then 10% (based on INFLATED numbers to account for your supposed complaints) of officers have ever had a complaint filed. So it'd be safe to say if an officer never had a complaint filed (because again that number takes in the missing and or non complaints due to fear) they wouldn't be violating peoples rights or having "bad encounters".

So 10% of encounters are bad. Damn..... the whole barrel is rotten.... sarcasm.




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So, how many of your fellow officers ever get thrown in jail for doing the same things a normal citizen would be jailed for?
Also how many have been killed so that so complaint can be filed?
I know that in my home state that officers have harassed citizens who have filed complaints. I don't know how often that happens because it's never officially recorded but it's done to send a message that filing complaints will not be tolerated.

Even then how many complaints are not even accepted in the first place? Come police departments will allow officers to harass people as they attempt to file, round file any complaint submitted, and otherwise make it hassle to file a complaint. How many officers are identified in each complaint on average for the ones that are recorded?

How many officers coverup things like domestic violence when other officers are doing it?
What about other things that, "the thin blue line," might cover up that ever gets reported?

I wonder how much evidence is stolen/borrowed/never makes it that the public never learns about.

How many times do people get stopped and harassed and have never bothered to file a complaint. Do you think Bob Dylan bothered to file a complaint?

So, of 6k recorded complaints how many were filed but never recorded? We have a member here that has had it happen to him. Ask him how many are not recorded vs how many are filed and use that as a base number for multiplication.

Of those 6k on record, how many of them resulted in ANY form of MEANINGFUL punishment?
 
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Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
How about the 6,613 complaints against officers in the country in 2010. The source of that number is the Cato institute. A few are familiar with that site and the thread its in.

So if you have 6,613 complaints I would suffice that a a pretty bad experience they put a formal complaint in.

Well..... there were over 700,000 officers employed in the us in that same year. So 6,613 out of 700,000 not counting any officers with multiple complaints.

You do the math.

The 700,00 cane from the FBI website and the 6,613 came from the catos "let's find bad cops study"

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

That is the number reported. It doesn't represent the number of complaints stifled by intimidation. Reports of misconduct simply trash canned because, well, they could. The given numbers times ten might be a closer representation of reality.

Any number over zero is an unacceptable number of violations.

ETA: Reports from police departments deemed corrupt will skewe any misconduct tallies. New York City, for instance, is under federal court order appointed Monitor. The court ordered Monitor will supervise all training, supervision, and paperwork, which is the information used to compile statistics. Seems the court stumbled upon some fudged numbers.

As the National Institute of Justice acknowledged in its May 2000 report, The Measurement of Police Integrity, most corruption incidents go unreported, and data that do exist "are best regarded as measures of a police agency's anticorruption activity, not the actual level of corruption."

Rampart, The Knapp Commission, Seripco, all indicate one thing....wide spread corruption.

Police track everything from domestic violence to child abuse to murder, and police routinely lobby state and federal lawmakers to put new crimes into statute. There are no comprehensive studies on how many people are killed each year at the hands of police. There is no objective comprehensive statistics on the police use of force either.

Nothing other than a court order can compel a police department to cooperate with the FBI or the Department of Justice. Police submit numbers that benefit them.
 
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Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
So, how many of your fellow officers ever get thrown in jail for doing the same things a normal citizen would be jailed for?
Also how many have been killed so that so complaint can be filed?
I know that in my home state that officers have harassed citizens who have filed complaints. I don't know how often that happens because it's never officially recorded but it's done to send a message that filing complaints will not be tolerated.

Even then how many complaints are not even accepted in the first place? Come police departments will allow officers to harass people as they attempt to file, round file any complaint submitted, and otherwise make it hassle to file a complaint. How many officers are identified in each complaint on average for the ones that are recorded?

Home many officers coverup things like domestic violence when other officers are doing it?
What about other things that, "the thin blue line," might cover up that ever gets reported?

I wonder how much evidence is stolen/borrowed/never makes it that the public never learns about.

How many times do people get stopped and harassed and have never bothered to file a complaint. Do you think Bob Dylan bothered to file a complaint?

So, of 6k recorded complaints how many were filed but never recorded? We have a member here that has had it happen to him. Ask him how many are not recorded vs how many are filed and use that as a base number for multiplication.

Of those 6k on record, how many of them resulted in ANY form of MEANINGFUL punishment?

Actually.... those 6613 I believe were also pulled from the media. Not just from the PDS. Those numbers aren't just from the PD. Again.. look at the source. That number was from the cato institute that made that study TO ROOT OUT BAD cops. So a study specifically to find bad cops finds 6613 bad cops. 6613 is LESS THAN ONE PERCENT.

I multiplied that number by TEN TIMES to account for all these other crazy circumstances you guys are coming up with.

Ten tines guys. And the number is still less then 10%.

To even get to a majority number you'd have to multiply the actual number from the cop watch study by FIFTY TIMES.

Lol I'm using your numbers guys..... it just isn't there. Are there SOME bad u
guys? Certainly no doubt about it. But .94 % percent as of 2010.

Read again..... .94 percent..... its a travesty.....

Do not think for a second I'm staging .94 percent is ok. I'm simple backing up the assertion that the overwhelmingly majority of police civilian encounters are not bad ones.

Again.... .94 reported BY TGE STUDY PUT TOGETHER TO ROOT OUT BAD POLICE. I can't stress that enough.

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Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
Ok.. so multiply it by... 2? 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10?
At 2 its 12,000 our of 700,000..... and again some are guaranteed on the same officer. At 10 times , which I doubt is true, it 60,000 out of 700,000. That's what? Less then 10%? So less then 10% (based on INFLATED numbers to account for your supposed complaints) of officers have ever had a complaint filed. So it'd be safe to say if an officer never had a complaint filed (because again that number takes in the missing and or non complaints due to fear) they wouldn't be violating peoples rights or having "bad encounters".

So 10% of encounters are bad. Damn..... the whole barrel is rotten.... sarcasm.




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If 12,000 citizens were violated by agents of a foreign country, we'd be at war with them.
 
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