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Thread: Total Wine and Liquors in Littleton is not gun friendly.

  1. #1
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    Total Wine and Liquors in Littleton is not gun friendly.

    Before anyone says anything I am well aware it is illegal to oc/cc under the influence and would never do that. With that being said it is perfectly legal to oc/cc in a bar/liquor store in colorado barring there are no signs at all the entrances or any other things that make it illegal. e.g. Metal detectors, armed guards, so on and so forth.


    So my girlfriend and I entered the liquor store which is located off of Broadway and Ridge Road. Proceeded to look for what we wanted, during which 2-3 employees walked by every couple minutes. About 10min after being there one employee came up to me and said that if I dont have a badge that I can show him that I need to cover the pistol while in the store. I let him know that I do not have a ccw permit at the moment so I was unable to do that. He then said that I can not open carry here(I assumed he meant the store) and if I could take the pistol out to the car. I told him that was no problem but informed him that it is legal to open carry in Colorado. He then proceeded to tell me that I was incorrect and it is illegal to open carry in Littleton(turns out when he said here he meant the city). At this point I took my pistol to the car and came back in, as I walked in a took extra time to inspect the plethera of signs they had in front of the store. To my surprise there was no sign saying no guns allowed(which I already knew because I check every store I go into, so that I am unaware of their stance on guns). We then finished shopping and proceeded to the counter to pay, I informed him that if he did not want people coming into the store oc'ing he should put a sign in the front window stating such. He then began to tell me that he understands completely and that he is retired military and has his ccw permit, then reinforced that he understood completely. He then began to tell me that it is not his policy but the owners. We payed for our items and then left, needless to say I will not be returning to this business in the future.


    Now I will not proclaim to know every in and out of every law in Colorado but from everything I have ever seen it is legal to oc in all of Colorado excluding Denver City/Denver County. I figured I would let everyone know that this location is not gun friendly and even more they for whatever reason will not post any signs at the front door saying such.
    Last edited by Mike6453; 01-17-2014 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Well, a new liquor store is opening across the street at Broadway & Arapahoe. You can give that a try next time.


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    then..

    They why on earth did you lock up and go back? And then made a purchase?
    I have left 2 carts full of stuff already and closed my account at WF bank.
    If someone Discriminates against your gun then go elsewhere.

    O and if u are in a private business and they ask you to cover it then ... You can cover it CCP or not.
    Remember you are in a private business.
    Last edited by lukaszu; 01-18-2014 at 01:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Thanks for the heads up. I'll add them to my list.

    Two things.

    1) Why did you put your gun in the car and go back in? Anyone who heard the encounter or saw your actions then knew that there was an unattended firearm in your vehicle. Plus why give your business to a place that doesn't want it.

    2) Why suggest signs? If they dont have one then don't give them any ideas.

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    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  5. #5
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszu View Post
    They why on earth did you lock up and go back? And then made a purchase?
    I have left 2 carts full of stuff already and closed my account at WF bank.
    If someone Discriminates against your gun then go elsewhere.

    O and if u are in a private business and they ask you to cover it then ... You can cover it CCP or not.
    Remember you are in a private business.
    Please provide a cite for your last statement. To my knowledge that is incorrect.

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    Last edited by Beau; 01-18-2014 at 02:47 PM.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  6. #6
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    I often visit the Total Wine shop here in northern Virginia while openly carrying. In fact, on one occasion one of the managers took us into the back to taste a special wine he had just opened and we spent more time discussing firearms than we did tasting the wine. I guess that may be the difference between a 2nd Amendment state like Virginia v. what Colorado has become....
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I often visit the Total Wine shop here in northern Virginia while openly carrying. In fact, on one occasion one of the managers took us into the back to taste a special wine he had just opened and we spent more time discussing firearms than we did tasting the wine. I guess that may be the difference between a 2nd Amendment state like Virginia v. what Colorado has become....
    It depends heavily on what part of Colorado you are talking about. I have not gotten hassled yet except by one guy in a gun store who got in my face about my hammer being back (it's a CZ 75B, the hammer is supposed to be back, 1911 style).

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    Very simple city does not dictate who and how will carry what on private property. If the owner wants you to conceal it then it's his call only on his property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I often visit the Total Wine shop here in northern Virginia while openly carrying. In fact, on one occasion one of the managers took us into the back to taste a special wine he had just opened and we spent more time discussing firearms than we did tasting the wine. I guess that may be the difference between a 2nd Amendment state like Virginia v. what Colorado has become....
    That is a truly awesome story!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    It depends heavily on what part of Colorado you are talking about. I have not gotten hassled yet except by one guy in a gun store who got in my face about my hammer being back (it's a CZ 75B, the hammer is supposed to be back, 1911 style).
    Littleton/Highlands Ranch are chock full of brainwashed sheep. He really got in your face over that?

  11. #11
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    Yes, it was at the Sportsmen's Warehouse in Colorado Springs. Blew my mind; surely this old duffer perusing the guns already knew about "cocked and locked."

  12. #12
    Regular Member Michaelpthompso's Avatar
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    If the guy in the store is telling you it's an ordinance of the City of Littleton, you really need to check that out. OpenCarry.org says:

    "Currently, outside of Denver, car carry is unrestricted and localities are almost completely preempted in enforcing firearms restrictions, and must post specific facilities which are off limits to open carry."

    Denver had to sue in order to get exempted from the preemption. The site continues:

    "Complete state preemption of firearms laws except that localities may prohibits the open carrying of firearms in a building or specific area within their jurisdiction.
    Update: The Colorado Appeals Court has ruled that Denver is NOT subject to state preemption regarding open carry."

    So you really need to verify from the City that there's really such an ordinance, because it certainly does not appear so from this site. A private business can prohibit open carry on their premises, but it doesn't carry the force of law. I presume you could be charged with trespass if you refuse to leave or put the gun away, but you seemed to be saying this guy was telling you that the City prohibits open carry in their store, and that's contrary to the way I read the law.

    For instance, here in Arvada, the city prohibits open carry in certain buildings, and posts such on their premises. This is consistent with the state law that requires the posting of specific premises. But that's a city owned building, not a privately owned store.
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    Sounds like from the reported request of the employee, "unless you have a badge" to show him.... never specified a LEO badge! I am picturing the "Junior Ranger" types from the National Park people or even one that says on it "OPEN CARRIER"..... I thing this is the ONLY time I've suggest an Open carry badge. As for the one that says "concealed" on it... Nope, not going there at all!

    Just saying....
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszu View Post
    They why on earth did you lock up and go back? And then made a purchase?
    I have left 2 carts full of stuff already and closed my account at WF bank.
    If someone Discriminates against your gun then go elsewhere.

    O and if u are in a private business and they ask you to cover it then ... You can cover it CCP or not.
    Remember you are in a private business.

    Honestly the only reason I went back in was because it was right next to where we were going and didn't have the time to run somewhere else. But normally I would have just taken my business elsewhere. You can be sure I won't be going back though.


    And good to know about the other liquor store.



    The thing that blew my mind the most was that he had said he was retired military and a ccw holder and yet he doesn't seem to know the laws.
    Last edited by Mike6453; 01-20-2014 at 03:33 PM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    He being a vet, well, vets voted for Obama, go figure.

    Maybe it is a case of the employee thinking vs. knowing and not willing to clarify. Or, clarity is available and he is just following orders. Until you ask management we will never know. Businesses have been swayed to not picking one side or the other. If nobody but the employee(s) care, and they may not care, why should management care.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike6453 View Post
    The thing that blew my mind the most was that he had said he was retired military and a ccw holder and yet he doesn't seem to know the laws.
    There are quite a few CCW classes that do not cover anything about the law. It's not a requirement.
    The military is Federal. State laws differ from state to state.

    Hell, the number of times I've proven that cops don't know the laws they are supposed to be enforcing...

    Anyone can not know what they don't know. Many of them, like myself, "well my dad told me..." and I took it as Gospel for many years. He was so wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Sounds like from the reported request of the employee, "unless you have a badge" to show him.... never specified a LEO badge! I am picturing the "Junior Ranger" types from the National Park people or even one that says on it "OPEN CARRIER"..... I thing this is the ONLY time I've suggest an Open carry badge. As for the one that says "concealed" on it... Nope, not going there at all!

    Just saying....
    I'm thinking a business card with the state firearms provision on the front and the preemption on the back or something along those lines would be a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    There are quite a few CCW classes that do not cover anything about the law. It's not a requirement.
    The military is Federal. State laws differ from state to state.

    Hell, the number of times I've proven that cops don't know the laws they are supposed to be enforcing...

    Anyone can not know what they don't know. Many of them, like myself, "well my dad told me..." and I took it as Gospel for many years. He was so wrong.

    I understand a bunch of classes don't cover all the laws and just because he was a vet does not mean he knows them all as well. Maybe I am one of the few people like this, but when I have an interest in something, especially something as serious as oc/cc I take my time and find any and all information on it so that I can know if I am or am not breaking any laws while doing so. I also like to be able to have an informed discussion about it just incase it ever comes up, that way I don't sound like recent California State Sen. Kevin de Leon (D-Los Angeles) when he was talking about guns. Here is the link, it will probably be the best 58sec of your day if you have not already seen it. http://www.ijreview.com/2014/01/1099...ips-something/
    Last edited by Mike6453; 01-21-2014 at 01:30 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    Yes, it was at the Sportsmen's Warehouse in Colorado Springs. Blew my mind; surely this old duffer perusing the guns already knew about "cocked and locked."
    What was your response? If you don't mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    I'm thinking a business card with the state firearms provision on the front and the preemption on the back or something along those lines would be a good idea.
    I would support this MORE THAT ANY SORT OF BADGE to flash!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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  21. #21
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    I probably would have felt obliged to just cover it up. He was not asking you to disarm and it's better than leaving it in the car. That would also deescalate the situation at which time you could educate him and his boss. And one rule of thumb I've found here on this board is to never suggest signs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    What was your response? If you don't mind.
    If memory serves, I told him it was cocked and locked and had the safety on. Two other people near me (including the guy behind the counter) settled for looking at him like he was from Mars.

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