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Thread: You might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots!

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    You might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots!

    I have no idea is Jeff Foxworthy is actually responsible for these words, but they are funny, and many of them have a lot more than a grain of truth.

    Got any of your own?

    Being founded by geniuses and run by idiots is not unique to our nation! One other example comes immediately to mind...

    A Country Founded by Geniuses but Run by Idiots
    by Jeff Foxworthy:

    If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or to take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If the government wants to prevent stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines that hold more than ten rounds, but gives twenty F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If, in the nation’s largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not one 24-ounce soda, because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If an 80-year-old woman or a three-year-old girl who is confined to a wheelchair can be strip-searched by the TSA at the airport, but a woman in a burka or a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If a seven-year-old boy can be thrown out of school for saying his teacher is “cute,” but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government regulation and intrusion, while not working is rewarded with Food Stamps, WIC checks, Medicaid benefits, subsidized housing, and free cell phones — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If the government’s plan for getting people back to work is to provide incentives for not working, by granting 99 weeks of unemployment checks, without any requirement to prove that gainful employment was diligently sought, but couldn’t be found — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big-screen TV, while your neighbor buys iPhones, time shares, a wall-sized do-it-all plasma screen TV and new cars, and the government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    If being stripped of your Constitutional right to defend yourself makes you more “safe” according to the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.


    What a country! How about we give God a reason to continue blessing America!

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    Our Founders gave US a unique Constitution that binded-up the tyrant government, and we have let the Leviathan loose, not likely to ever be caged up again. Pandora's Box is open.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    I'm not sure why there's any surprise or dissatisfaction here.

    Somebody agrees that it is OK to rule another equal without his express individual consent. Then gets bent outa shape when, having that power, the rulers do just that.

    Having already agreed it is OK to rule sans consent, it becomes merely a matter of degree, open to argument, disagreement, and power struggle. Of course, the people in power will be the ones who settle the disagreements and decide which degree is acceptable. Why anybody who agrees to non-consensual government is surprised or dissatisfied leaves me mystified.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'm not sure why there's any surprise or dissatisfaction here.

    Somebody agrees that it is OK to rule another equal without his express individual consent. Then gets bent outa shape when, having that power, the rulers do just that.

    Having already agreed it is OK to rule sans consent, it becomes merely a matter of degree, open to argument, disagreement, and power struggle. Of course, the people in power will be the ones who settle the disagreements and decide which degree is acceptable. Why anybody who agrees to non-consensual government is surprised or dissatisfied leaves me mystified.
    As long as it's "illegal's" rights being infringed it doesn't apply right?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Yup.

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    As long as it's "illegal's" rights being infringed it doesn't apply right?
    If they are illegal, they are not citizens of this nation and have no rights under OUR constitution.

    Are you also against other countries reserving certain rights for their citizens?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    If they are illegal, they are not citizens of this nation and have no rights under OUR constitution. [ ... ]
    The Constitution of The United States grants no rights. The Declaration of Independence recognizes all men created equal endowed with certain unalienable rights. The Bill of Rights, the First Ten Amendments enumerate certain rights endowed by our Creator as a matter of natural law. Amendments to COTUS subsequent to the Tenth may hypothesize rights granted by FedGov but they are as easily rescinded and infringed as granted.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ...or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,...
    NOT, citizens.

    The right of the people to be secure...
    NOT, citizens.

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital,...
    NOT, citizen.

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
    Figure this one out.

    And my personal favorite:

    ...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,...
    Not, citizens.

    Illegal aliens have broken the law and are entitled to due process just as I am. Unfortunately the "state" has forgone its obligation to enforce the law(s) in this regard.

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    What was supposed to be a light-hearted thread has turned dark. That happens when the cadre shows up.

    If anyone would like to add their own ya-might-bes, please do so.

    On the dark side: The preamble starts with "We the People of the United States..." When the Constitution refers to "the people," it is reasonable to assume that it means the people of the United States. When it says, "no person" that refers to all persons, whether a member of "the people" or not.

    If someone is illegally in the US, IMO, he is not a member of the people as referenced in the Constitution. That does not mean that he has no rights, just not the same full set of rights that members of the people do. It is perfectly reasonable that the lawbreaker that is an illegal is not allowed to keep or bear arms. A non-citizen who has been invited into the country should have his RKBA protected.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I still haven't found the forum rule that rules out light-hearted threads. I'll keep looking though.

    My post was intended to mitigate the thread derailment.....that I think I participated in, now that I think about it.

    Anyway, I prefer Mr. Foxworthy's redneck jokes, I identify with those.....if ya know what I mean.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What was supposed to be a light-hearted thread has turned dark. That happens when the cadre shows up.

    If anyone would like to add their own ya-might-bes, please do so.

    On the dark side: The preamble starts with "We the People of the United States..." When the Constitution refers to "the people," it is reasonable to assume that it means the people of the United States. When it says, "no person" that refers to all persons, whether a member of "the people" or not.

    If someone is illegally in the US, IMO, he is not a member of the people as referenced in the Constitution. That does not mean that he has no rights, just not the same full set of rights that members of the people do. It is perfectly reasonable that the lawbreaker that is an illegal is not allowed to keep or bear arms. A non-citizen who has been invited into the country should have his RKBA protected.
    A twisting of words worthy of the oligarchs in black robes.

    I find it humorous that you scold the direction the conversation takes and then continue that direction.

    The people of the various states instituted the constitution is true, no where did they say the rights are only their rights. They didn't believe rights are handed out by the constitution, this is clear in the DOI, where it makes the claim all men of unalienable rights. They then created a document to bind government from infringing upon rights, and grant it enumerated powers, the document does not spell out that they can only not infringe upon rights of it's "citizens".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    A twisting of words worthy of the oligarchs in black robes.

    I find it humorous that you scold the direction the conversation takes and then continue that direction.

    The people of the various states instituted the constitution is true, no where did they say the rights are only their rights. They didn't believe rights are handed out by the constitution, this is clear in the DOI, where it makes the claim all men of unalienable rights. They then created a document to bind government from infringing upon rights, and grant it enumerated powers, the document does not spell out that they can only not infringe upon rights of it's "citizens".
    Find it humorous, I will answer what I feel needs to be answered.

    I frankly don't care if you consider it a twisting. As I have said a zillion times before, I am rarely trying to change the minds of the people to whom I post. It is those who read and do not reply to whom I address my anti-dogma. It is my hope that, armed with at least two POVs, they may arrive at an informed choice. I know that is not the normal modus operandi here at the New OCDO.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Find it humorous, I will answer what I feel needs to be answered.

    I frankly don't care if you consider it a twisting. As I have said a zillion times before, I am rarely trying to change the minds of the people to whom I post. It is those who read and do not reply to whom I address my anti-dogma. It is my hope that, armed with at least two POVs, they may arrive at an informed choice. I know that is not the normal modus operandi here at the New OCDO.
    And part of that would be having an honest debate. And pointing out where a persons argument for a position fails and is twisting something to make it seem something is there that isn't.

    It matters not who formed the constitution. Any more than if I say we the carpenters of Bellingham form this group to fight against police tyranny. To assume it would only be tyranny against carpenters would be a false assumption.

    So your POV would be that Americans are more special?
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 01-20-2014 at 10:13 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    In America, folks who are here legally have greater protections in the law. Please don't twist my words. Moving on.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Yes, Americans are more special, but I'm biased on this issue.

    Fortunately a great many of my fellow citizens agree with me, I believe, on our "specialness" yet remain firmly entrenched on how the "state" should be treating law breakers. Reasonable folks can disagree on the implementation, but the founding principle is generally agreed upon by all.....except liberals.

    I fully expect a exception to become manifest regarding the "generally agreed upon" part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    In America, folks who are here legally have greater protections in the law. Please don't twist my words. Moving on.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    I don't usually agree with you but you are spot on. Citizenship would be meaningless if what OC and sudden valley are saying were true.

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    To add on to my last post, France learned a very important lesson in WW2 that could be related to allowing foreigners constitutional protections usually afforded to citizens.

    In 1939, the Foreign Legion was made up of primarily Germans and it crippled the famous unit and helped the Nazis create their stronghold in Africa. Lesson learned? Yup. Don't let your enemy arm himself and mobilize within your borders. Affording constitutional rights to non citizens would allow them to purchase weapons and arm themselves within our borders.

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    Private sales. Unless, you desire to have some form of "state" oversight on private sales to prevent illegals from getting guns.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Private sales. Unless, you desire to have some form of "state" oversight on private sales to prevent illegals from getting guns.
    .....via the same lawful channels we citizens enjoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Private sales. Unless, you desire to have some form of "state" oversight on private sales to prevent illegals from getting guns.
    State oversight is not required to make an act illegal. That is where the government runs afoul of the Right. They try to oversee lawful actions to prevent unlawful actions. Just make the actual act they are trying to stop illegal, and punish it when discovered.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    In America, folks who are here legally have greater protections in the law. Please don't twist my words. Moving on.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    No twisting of your words were done.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    I don't usually agree with you but you are spot on. Citizenship would be meaningless if what OC and sudden valley are saying were true.
    Not necessarily true, there are a few privileges citizens have, like participating in the government and voting.

    Rights are not granted to the "citizens" of U.S. other wise they are not rights.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Yes, Americans are more special, but I'm biased on this issue.

    Fortunately a great many of my fellow citizens agree with me, I believe, on our "specialness" yet remain firmly entrenched on how the "state" should be treating law breakers. Reasonable folks can disagree on the implementation, but the founding principle is generally agreed upon by all.....except liberals.

    I fully expect a exception to become manifest regarding the "generally agreed upon" part.
    I see what you are saying. To me It would be like the locals here thinking the Seahawks are more special than a team from another state. It's in the eyes of the beholder.

    Of course there is nothing wrong with loving the land of your birth/residence and your fellow country men.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    " The layman's constitutional view is that what he likes is Constitutional and that which he doesn't like is Unconstitutional"

    We look to the history of the time of framing and to intervening history of interpretation. But the ultimate question must be, what do the words of the text mean in our time..

    Can any of Us seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn't even get out of committee...

    My .02

    Best regards.

    CCJ
    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 01-20-2014 at 02:47 PM.
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Not necessarily true, there are a few privileges citizens have, like participating in the government and voting.

    Rights are not granted to the "citizens" of U.S. other wise they are not rights.
    Illegals do that too. They get jobs in law enforcement and vote multiple times in presidential elections.

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