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Thread: Using Voice Recorder and Interacting With LEOs

  1. #1
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    Using Voice Recorder and Interacting With LEOs

    I just upgraded to a digital from a microcassette recorder. Unbelievable difference. Where is the best place to carry the digital? With the cassette I had a battery mic plugged in so it was in a jacket or pants pocket. This mic works with the new recorder.

    I have been meaning to ask this but well . . .

    I notice the overwhelming majority of people on here recommened when approached by a LEO to start your conversation with, "Am I being detained?" or to never talk to a LEO or did I misunderstand something? What purpose does that serve? I've haven't been specifically approached for OCing yet.

    While OCing I've been approached by a LEO once and I assumed my firearm was seen but the conversation didn't go there. Would it have if I used the Am I being detained approach? It shouldn't take but a couple seconds to know where the conversation was heading.

    I do know enough not to voluteer anything. I keep my answers short as possible.
    Last edited by ShootinRugers; 01-21-2014 at 07:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I always let the cop start the "conversation" first. You will likely know with a few seconds what his intentions are. Then I respond based on his intentions as I understand them from his line of questioning.

    I talk to cops in my little town all the time it seems. Usually in the morning (4:30-ish in the AM) at the local 'C' store, getting coffee, while on my way to work.

    I've had only two "official" encounters with my little towns cops where my firearm was his sole interest. Both years ago and none since.

    I always have my recorder running no matter who the 2nd party is.

    Recorder on as I step out of the house, off when I step back in the house at the end of the day.

  3. #3
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    My recorder works beautifully in a pocket. I turn it on when I leave the house, and turn it off when I get home. If nothing happened, I erase the recording.

    Since "detained" is a fuzzy legal word, I avoid it. If you have been arrested, detained, or otherwise stopped from freely moving about, legally you have been seized. However, if you ask a cop, "Have I been seized?" you will get a blank stare. Ask the opposite question: "Am I free to go?" If you are, go. If not, the only thing Ohio law requires is that you provide name, address, and date of birth--if requested. I also recommend making sure that the recording contains you saying, "I do not consent to any searches or seizures, but will not resist." Asking for the officer's supervisor can also be useful. Keep repeating "Am I free to go?" until you are.

    Beyond that, I don't recommend talking to the officer.

    On edit: After reading OCfM's post, I do want to add this: The above is for stops, wherein the officer uses his authority to start the interaction. I don't mind friendly unofficial chats with the local cops. I still won't talk to them about what I am doing. Say the wrong thing, and the chat can become official.
    Last edited by eye95; 01-21-2014 at 08:20 AM.

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Shirt pocket is best, pants pocket will do,,,,

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    Regular Member dominic22's Avatar
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    Thank you guys for the information. I plan to soon start carrying a voice recorder just to get in the habit.

    [I removed some of my post in order to comply with the rules.]

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by dominic22; 01-21-2014 at 02:21 PM.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominic22 View Post
    ... when I purchase a rifle and OC...
    Please rethink this. Sidearms (handguns) are meant for daily defensive carry. Rifles are meant for when you need them. There is a reason this website does not promote rifle carry.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member dominic22's Avatar
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    I did it again, sorry. Let me do myself a favor and make my intentions clear.

    I no longer have any intention on Open carrying rifles. I do have intentions on open carrying a handgun. I want to get myself in the habit of carrying a voice recorder. Get used to turning it on and making sure it's with me. And turning it off when getting home.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dominic22 View Post
    And turning it off when getting home.
    Very important. Have gone through several sets of AAA's already forgetting to turn the thing off.

    David

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    If not, the only thing Ohio law requires is that you provide name, address, and date of birth--if requested.
    Doesn't that depend on the circumstances surrounding the 'location'?
    As far as I know you cannot be compelled to state your idenity if you are legally walking down the street. Only after they arrest/detain you must you tell them who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dominic22 View Post
    Thank you guys for the information. I plan to soon start carrying a voice recorder just to get in the habit.

    [I removed some of my post in order to comply with the rules.]

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
    Just remember ... you are recording evidence that could be used against you too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flhrci View Post
    Very important. Have gone through several sets of AAA's already forgetting to turn the thing off.

    David
    It is amazing some of the crap I accidentally record!

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    Quote Originally Posted by samkent View Post
    Doesn't that depend on the circumstances surrounding the 'location'?
    As far as I know you cannot be compelled to state your idenity if you are legally walking down the street. Only after they arrest/detain you must you tell them who you are.
    If you are not "free to go," you have been detained. If you are lawfully detained (the cop has RAS), Ohio law requires you to provide name, address, and DOB. If you are detained, it may not be lawful, in which case you need not identify yourself. The problem with that is that you have no way of knowing if a detention is lawful. I recommend assuming that all are. If you are illegally detained, you can deal with that after the fact. If you assume that a detention is illegal and refuse to identify yourself, you will be breaking the law if you are wrong. And it is very easy to be wrong!

  13. #13
    Regular Member dominic22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Just remember ... you are recording evidence that could be used against you too.
    That is a very good point! I am glad that you mentioned that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Just remember ... you are recording evidence that could be used against you too.
    Only if one is stupid enough to talk to the cop or to commit a crime during the recording. I can't speak for you, but I am smart enough not to do those things.
    Last edited by eye95; 01-21-2014 at 08:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dominic22 View Post
    That is a very good point! I am glad that you mentioned that.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
    Actually, it isn't. See above.

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominic22 View Post
    I did it again, sorry. Let me do myself a favor and make my intentions clear.

    I no longer have any intention on Open carrying rifles.
    They're pretty hard to conceal



    Quote Originally Posted by dominic22 View Post
    And turning it off when getting home.

    LOL
    Thanks for the reminder!
    Mine was still running,,,,

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I always let the cop start the "conversation" first. You will likely know with a few seconds what his intentions are. Then I respond based on his intentions as I understand them from his line of questioning.

    Recorder on as I step out of the house, off when I step back in the house at the end of the day.
    This is what I kept thinking that within a few seconds you should see where the conversation is going. When I read the posts it always seemed like whenever a cop said anything to anyone their first response was "Am I being detained." But then reading eye95's edit cleared up the misunderstanding. Thanks

    I know the digital recorder fits almost anywhere. I've carry a micro-cassette since the mid-90s and was limited to about 45 minutes of conversation and plus the extra size of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    My recorder works beautifully in a pocket. I turn it on when I leave the house, and turn it off when I get home. If nothing happened, I erase the recording.

    On edit: After reading OCfM's post, I do want to add this: The above is for stops, wherein the officer uses his authority to start the interaction. I don't mind friendly unofficial chats with the local cops. I still won't talk to them about what I am doing. Say the wrong thing, and the chat can become official.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is amazing some of the crap I accidentally record!
    Your crap or someone else's? LOL

    David


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Only if one is stupid enough to talk to the cop or to commit a crime during the recording. I can't speak for you, but I am smart enough not to do those things.
    well, when you are recording, you don't know why the cop is coming up to you ... plus, look at cases where the video seems to show that the carrier was 100% in the right ... but it did not help them. Some people (ie jurists) will see the carrying of a recorder as an indication that your are weird whether its OK or not...just odd behavior they'll think. A person looking for confrontation.

    Many people have recorded thinking it would help them and it does - right to prison.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck! View Post
    Shirt pocket is best, pants pocket will do,,,,
    This one fits nice in shirt pocket

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    Quote Originally Posted by flhrci View Post
    Your crap or someone else's? LOL

    David


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    I try to turn it on when I leave and off when I return. The dead silence while driving is aggravating; however I did I can sing along with the radio really good. Not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShootinRugers View Post
    I try to turn it on when I leave and off when I return. The dead silence while driving is aggravating; however I did I can sing along with the radio really good. Not!
    Better to find out now before harming someone else!

    David

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    My recorder works beautifully in a pocket. I turn it on when I leave the house, and turn it off when I get home. If nothing happened, I erase the recording.

    Since "detained" is a fuzzy legal word, I avoid it. If you have been arrested, detained, or otherwise stopped from freely moving about, legally you have been seized. However, if you ask a cop, "Have I been seized?" you will get a blank stare. Ask the opposite question: "Am I free to go?" If you are, go. If not, the only thing Ohio law requires is that you provide name, address, and date of birth--if requested. I also recommend making sure that the recording contains you saying, "I do not consent to any searches or seizures, but will not resist." Asking for the officer's supervisor can also be useful. Keep repeating "Am I free to go?" until you are.

    Beyond that, I don't recommend talking to the officer.

    On edit: After reading OCfM's post, I do want to add this: The above is for stops, wherein the officer uses his authority to start the interaction. I don't mind friendly unofficial chats with the local cops. I still won't talk to them about what I am doing. Say the wrong thing, and the chat can become official.

    Really? I was not aware of this? I am not questioning it, but do you happen to know off hand where this is covered in ORC?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShootinRugers View Post
    Where is the best place to carry the digital? With the cassette I had a battery mic plugged in so it was in a jacket or pants pocket. This mic works with the new recorder.
    One thing to think about is what happens if you are detained and handcuffed. If the recorder is just handheld chances are that you won't be able to continue recording once in cuffs. So consider something like a neck lanyard if the recorder is handheld.

    Also, cops love to rumage through your pockets during a Terry frisk - even though they are supposed to only pat down the outide of your clothing for weapons and only remove items that feel like a weapon - they routinely violate Terry vs. Ohio by removing other stuff from your pockets. If you do have a recorder in your pocket with an attached remote microphone, ther is a good chance that the cop will unplug the mic and remove the recorder from your pocket. This is the downside of using a remote mic.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    "... the only thing Ohio law requires is that you provide name, address, and date of birth--if requested...
    "
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanshield View Post
    Really? I was not aware of this? I am not questioning it, but do you happen to know off hand where this is covered in ORC?
    Ohio Revised Code 2921.29 Failure to disclose personal information.
    (A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
    (1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
    (2) The person witnessed any of the following:
    (a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;
    (b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;
    (c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;
    (d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.
    (B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to disclose one's personal information, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.
    (C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.
    (D) It is not a violation of this section to refuse to answer a question that would reveal a person's age or date of birth if age is an element of the crime that the person is suspected of committing.
    I draw the reader's attention to the emboldened words and phrasing. An officer has the authority to demand of a criminal suspect or witness to a serious crime his name, address, or (and) date of birth. The phrasing is widely used in legal writing and a result of English having no 'official rules' but being the construct of its users.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-22-2014 at 04:52 PM.

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