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Thread: Accidentally shot himself twice in 15 years.

  1. #1
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Accidentally shot himself twice in 15 years.

    Some people really need to learn safe handling.

    I hope he never declares he is the only one skilled enough to handle that weapons.




    FUQ-"It turns out Counceller had accidentally shot himself once before, 15 years ago."
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  2. #2
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    Linky linky?

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...lf-at-gun-shop

    G00gle Real time coverage
    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...be5be672984ba7 28 articles ATM

    "It was just a little accident. Dave is an excellent marksman," Urban said Monday. "Apparently the Glocks don't have the trigger safety that they should have."

    The gunshot wound Saturday is not Councellor's first. Fifteen years ago, Counceller said he accidentally shot himself in his hand.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-21-2014 at 10:01 AM.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    "Connersville's police chief drives himself to the hospital after he accidentally shoots himself. David Counceller suffered a flesh wound to his thigh when his gun discharged over the weekend"
    I love how the media makes it sound like the gun just randomly turned on its owner and shot him in the thigh.

    "He says he was placing the gun in an unfamiliar holster, and the trigger caught on some clothing, causing the gun to go off."
    The trigger has a guard, it's more likely his finger was in the trigger.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    That's why I don't like, or have any, guns with only a trigger safety. The XD, and others, have both a grip and trigger safety, making the incident the unfortunate police chief experienced, almost impossible. His first injury due to ND was even more avoidable, and IMO stupid.
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  5. #5
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    Trigger safeties on double-action firearms are quite reliable.

    Just leave it in the holster that covers the trigger guard unless you are going to fire it or clear it. Then just keep your booger hook off the bang switch until and unless you intend to deliberately and immediately pull that switch.

    Simple. Safe.

    Remember, your last line of protection is the safety between your ears. No manner and no amount of physical safeties are effective unless the one between your ears is properly functioning.

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The "safety between the ears" has been found to be one of the most unreliable safeties ever "installed" into a gun. Fortunately, and knock on wood, the one I have has yet to fail me.

  7. #7
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    i hope the good citizens of the Hoosier county he wishes to run for sheriff in take notice of his faux pas...

    oh wait, i forgot, it was his service firearm's fault wasn't it!!

    Bad, Bad firearm...for punishment you must sit in the case for a month...

    drove himself to the hospital...really? i am sure he would let another citizen in similar circumstances do that as well, huh!!

    did hospital personal fill out the necessary forms and notify the local police there they treated a firearm injury?

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 01-21-2014 at 10:37 AM.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Clothing my arse. The dumb arse had his finger on the trigger. It probably was a covered trigger as most holsters are these days. The problem lies with the brain, no manual, safety, and inserting the gun in the holster with finger on trigger. Bill Jordan holsters became popular because there were so many accidents with scabbard holsters. Jordan holsters have open trigger, scabbard are covered. The trigger being covered or uncovered is not the problem, the gun is not the problem, the problem is a short circuit in the brain. People do things without thinking, and this leads to Awww Shiites.

    It is one reason I never carry a wallet. My personal items are always hanging from my neck under my shirt. I know how to retrieve a wallet, I know how to retrieve a gun. But doing these things in auto mode can lead to a Awww Shiite.

    I carried most of my life, and still do holsters with a open trigger, revolvers with no manual safety. My finger stays off the trigger until the gun is pointed at a target. At no time before is the trigger touched, same goes for removing a safety on a semi auto, only remove it when on target and a decision has been made to shoot.

    ETA that Glocks while being a gun and cannot fire by themselves. Glocks are not for everyone, the owners of these guns must be very careful when dissembling their guns to make sure they are unloaded. This goes for any gun that must be dry fired to disassemble. One of the great things about guns designed with a Hi Power style barrel link that if someone forgets or goofs up in safety checking, the gun disassembles by just pulling the slide and barrel forward as one unit. There by limiting the chances of a ND.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-21-2014 at 11:28 AM.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    "It was just a little accident. Dave is an excellent marksman," Urban said Monday.

    WTF does the ability to accurately align the sights when shooting at a target have to do with negligently shooting yourself?

    I was once working on my engine when I accidentally placed my hand to close to the spinning fan and sliced all the skin off my knuckles.

    I don't understand how this happened. I'm an excellent driver.
    Last edited by Superlite27; 01-21-2014 at 11:53 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Running Wolf View Post
    That's why I don't like, or have any, guns with only a trigger safety. The XD, and others, have both a grip and trigger safety, making the incident the unfortunate police chief experienced, almost impossible. His first injury due to ND was even more avoidable, and IMO stupid.
    Grip safety doesn't do jack diddily, he even says in the article he was pushing down on the gun to holster it, meaning a hand on grip, disengaging the grip safety and allowing it to be fired. so an XD would make no dfference.

    ADs occassionally happen, the gun was muzzle pointed down, no innocent people were hurt. hardly a huge incident. IMO
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  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Grip safety doesn't do jack diddily, he even says in the article he was pushing down on the gun to holster it, meaning a hand on grip, disengaging the grip safety and allowing it to be fired. so an XD would make no dfference.

    ADs occassionally happen, the gun was muzzle pointed down, no innocent people were hurt. hardly a huge incident. IMO
    ADs NEVER happen, NDs do. So this occasional accident is just peachy with you until a innocent person is shot "accidentally"? People who think occasional NDs are acceptable should not own guns. I certainly would NEVER hire one who thinks in this fashion. I would be sued for hiring a accident waiting to happen.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-21-2014 at 11:53 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    ADs NEVER happen, NDs do. So this occasional accident is just peachy with you until a innocent person is shot "accidentally"? People who think occasional NDs are acceptable should not own guns. I certainly would NEVER hire one who thinks in this fashion. I would be sued for hiring a accident waiting to happen.
    Oh really? so if someone runs a stop sign and no one is hurt does that mean that person should go to prison for the same sentence as T-boning a station wagon full of kids?

    people have accidents in everything.

    as far as AD versus ND, if correcting other people on irrelevant terminology is what makes you feel better about yourself then feel better about yourself. AD is perfectly correct term. by definition of the words used.

    for that matter I can't say I feel that much better knowing a guy wears his credit cards around his neck because he can't tell the difference between a gun and a wallet is walking around carrying a gun, so there.

    a range officer in Washington fired a shot in the air by accident at the WAC gun show, to the best of my knowledge he got a slap on the wrist too..... in states where accidental discharges are a crime it's universally a misdemeanor. and almost never prosecuted either. one shot goes to the floor, nicks the guy who fired it, and hurts no one else.... no it doesn't really strike me as something someone should lose their job over, or be criminally charged.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  13. #13
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    This story proves yet again that the only real safety is inside your skull.

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Clothing my arse. The dumb arse had his finger on the trigger. It probably was a covered trigger as most holsters are these days. The problem lies with the brain, no manual, safety, and inserting the gun in the holster with finger on trigger. Bill Jordan holsters became popular because there were so many accidents with scabbard holsters. Jordan holsters have open trigger, scabbard are covered. The trigger being covered or uncovered is not the problem, the gun is not the problem, the problem is a short circuit in the brain. People do things without thinking, and this leads to Awww Shiites.

    It is one reason I never carry a wallet. My personal items are always hanging from my neck under my shirt. I know how to retrieve a wallet, I know how to retrieve a gun. But doing these things in auto mode can lead to a Awww Shiite.

    I carried most of my life, and still do holsters with a open trigger, revolvers with no manual safety. My finger stays off the trigger until the gun is pointed at a target. At no time before is the trigger touched, same goes for removing a safety on a semi auto, only remove it when on target and a decision has been made to shoot.

    ETA that Glocks while being a gun and cannot fire by themselves. Glocks are not for everyone, the owners of these guns must be very careful when dissembling their guns to make sure they are unloaded. This goes for any gun that must be dry fired to disassemble. One of the great things about guns designed with a Hi Power style barrel link that if someone forgets or goofs up in safety checking, the gun disassembles by just pulling the slide and barrel forward as one unit. There by limiting the chances of a ND.
    I was thinking the same. I have a Glock I carry in winter with a serpa holster. I have heavy clothing. I don't just jam my gun into my holster. Even from the article it sounds like he was forcing it in..!?!?!?!?!? Who the hell would do that?

    I still cant figure out how clothing can elongate itself, insert itself into the trigger guard and then provide enough resistance to fire? Not saying it's impossible but highly unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    WTF does the ability to accurately align the sights when shooting at a target have to do with negligently shooting yourself?

    I was once working on my engine when I accidentally placed my hand to close to the spinning fan and sliced all the skin off my knuckles.

    I don't understand how this happened. I'm an excellent driver.
    +1 LOL....nice analogy!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Oh really? so if someone runs a stop sign and no one is hurt does that mean that person should go to prison for the same sentence as T-boning a station wagon full of kids?

    people have accidents in everything.

    as far as AD versus ND, if correcting other people on irrelevant terminology is what makes you feel better about yourself then feel better about yourself. AD is perfectly correct term. by definition of the words used.

    for that matter I can't say I feel that much better knowing a guy wears his credit cards around his neck because he can't tell the difference between a gun and a wallet is walking around carrying a gun, so there.

    a range officer in Washington fired a shot in the air by accident at the WAC gun show, to the best of my knowledge he got a slap on the wrist too..... in states where accidental discharges are a crime it's universally a misdemeanor. and almost never prosecuted either. one shot goes to the floor, nicks the guy who fired it, and hurts no one else.... no it doesn't really strike me as something someone should lose their job over, or be criminally charged.
    You really need to lay off the caffeine at your age. I can just imagine how you will be in another 50 years at the movie theater. I wear my credentials around my neck for many reasons, safety is only one of them. But you seem to think that thinking about safety, and being smart is somehow out of fashion. Maybe it is your age, but I know many young people with better common sense. Far as that is concerned anybody who would try to insult someone on where they carry their wallet or money or credit cards has serious mental problems.

    BTW nobody said he should go to prison, you have some problems dude. Stop making shiite up!
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-21-2014 at 12:14 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    This story proves yet again that the only real safety is inside your skull.
    Some ND have been due to mechanical problems. ALL ND are due to 'skull problems'. There is no "real safety"! Read and understand The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Oh really? so if someone runs a stop sign and no one is hurt does that mean that person should go to prison for the same sentence as T-boning a station wagon full of kids?

    people have accidents in everything.

    as far as AD versus ND, if correcting other people on irrelevant terminology is what makes you feel better about yourself then feel better about yourself. AD is perfectly correct term. by definition of the words used.

    for that matter I can't say I feel that much better knowing a guy wears his credit cards around his neck because he can't tell the difference between a gun and a wallet is walking around carrying a gun, so there.

    a range officer in Washington fired a shot in the air by accident at the WAC gun show, to the best of my knowledge he got a slap on the wrist too..... in states where accidental discharges are a crime it's universally a misdemeanor. and almost never prosecuted either. one shot goes to the floor, nicks the guy who fired it, and hurts no one else.... no it doesn't really strike me as something someone should lose their job over, or be criminally charged.
    Running a stop sign is not an accident, it is negligent driving. Unintentionally firing a handgun is not an accident, it is negligence.

    Feel free to argue all you'd like.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Running Wolf View Post
    Running a stop sign is not an accident, it is negligent driving...
    Well, I submit that if you run a stop sign on purpose, and safely, it is neither. But that's another matter.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  19. #19
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Grip safety doesn't do jack diddly, he even says in the article he was pushing down on the gun to holster it, meaning a hand on grip, disengaging the grip safety and allowing it to be fired. so an XD would make no difference.

    ADs occassionally happen, the gun was muzzle pointed down, no innocent people were hurt. hardly a huge incident. IMO
    When I push down on my XD during the re-holstering process I do not engage the grip safety. It take practice, but once learned, it becomes second nature. I know that a non-manually activated external safety (1911 thumb) is a good way to prevent the wandering finger on the trigger "accident." Knowing the operation of the XD I made adjustments to mitigate a wandering finger. Glocks have no such "back-up" capability.

  20. #20
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    When I push down on my XD during the re-holstering process I do not engage the grip safety. It take practice, but once learned, it becomes second nature. I know that a non-manually activated external safety (1911 thumb) is a good way to prevent the wandering finger on the trigger "accident." Knowing the operation of the XD I made adjustments to mitigate a wandering finger. Glocks have no such "back-up" capability.
    No, it's not. because someone who will point the gun somewhere it doesn't belong and squeeze on the trigger cannot be trusted to properly use the safety anyway. you can look at my new signature line for a classic example of someone who a manual safety won't help.....

    plenty of people have AD'd 1911s. trigger control is the key, not all kinds of switches and buttons.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 01-21-2014 at 04:12 PM.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    What I have found in my experience is people who call a ND, a AD, probably have had a few too many.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  22. #22
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    What I have found in my experience is people who call a ND, a AD, probably have had a few too many.
    AD is the terminology I was taught in NRA safety class. It is the terminology I will use. it is perfectly descriptive. I will not go out of my way to appease people, I am not qualified to make you feel good about yourself.

    I am qualified to remember to pull my wallet when paying for my starbucks instead of my gun however....... fashion notwithstanding.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No, it's not. because someone who will point the gun somewhere it doesn't belong and squeeze on the trigger cannot be trusted to properly use the safety anyway. you can look at my new signature line for a classic example of someone who a manual safety won't help.....

    plenty of people have AD'd 1911s. trigger control is the key, not all kinds of switches and buttons.
    When manually operated mechanical safeties are used, 1911 thumb safety, the firearm absent a malfunction, will not fire.

    I addressed the benefit of the thumb safety and what I do to mitigate the lack of a thumb safety on a weapon that has a Glock style trigger "safety."

    You popping off on that which I did not address in my post is juvenile.

    I addressed the nitwittery of some folks a little earlier.

    The "safety between the ears" has been found to be one of the most unreliable safeties ever "installed" into a gun. Fortunately, and knock on wood, the one I have has yet to fail me.
    Look it up.....young pup.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    When manually operated mechanical safeties are used, 1911 thumb safety, the firearm absent a malfunction, will not fire.

    I addressed the benefit of the thumb safety and what I do to mitigate the lack of a thumb safety on a weapon that has a Glock style trigger "safety."

    You popping off on that which I did not address in my post is juvenile.

    I addressed the nitwittery of some folks a little earlier.

    Look it up.....young pup.
    But~But he has been NRA trained...

    Yup those NRA trainers really have it together.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...tions-director

    As I stated before people who call NDs ADs have had a few.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-21-2014 at 04:51 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  25. #25
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    First, my definition of "ignorant"--- not exposed to the subject matter, then of "stupid"-- exposed to the subject matter but a failure to learn of it or from it.

    first time he shot himself he was IGNORANT--- Second time makes him STUPID

    How was that without even commenting on weather it was ACCIDENTAL VS NEGLIGENT?


    I do strive to learn from the experiences of others so as to not have to experience every single thing personally. Sometimes I fail and must learn from my OWN experience.
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 01-21-2014 at 04:56 PM.
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