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Accidentally shot himself twice in 15 years.

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
According to attorney Rich Miller (who has handled many cases against Remington), all Remington bolt-action rifles - not just the Model 700 - built since 1950 contain a trigger group known as the Walker Fire Control System. Miller says "At one time, and maybe still today, the Remington 700 was the world's best selling bolt action rifle. They knew from day one they had a fatal flaw. The downside is that the same mechanism can fail and that was recognized on the face of Walker's patent in 1950 that if you don't do this right the gun might fire on safety release."

According to an internal Remington memo, the actual sequence required to make a gun malfunction, or "trick," is to place the safety between the "safe" and "fire" positions, pull the trigger, and then place the safety in the "fire" position - which causes affected guns to fire. I can't make my model 700 fire in this manner, but it is allegedly possible.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/a/aacbsnewsrem700_2.htm
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation

WalkingWolf

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CNBC, being the lone arbiter of what was displayed on their show, has the right to distort their facts as much as they please.

Remington's response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_KVS1hIbQg

Thanks for that video, hopefully those people here and other places who have had a negligent discharge will start to accept responsibility. If they cannot learn from their own mistakes, then they are dangerous.
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
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Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
If anyone is injured, including the shooter, or their is property damage, or the round does not land in a safe place it is negligent. Anyone chambering a round on any gun without it pointing in a safe place is a idiot.

Of course. But that wasn't what you said, and I responded to. If a person is properly observing all safety rules and a firearm malfunctions and discharges - again, using the example of the XDs discharging when chambering a round - is it not an accidental discharge?
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Of course. But that wasn't what you said, and I responded to. If a person is properly observing all safety rules and a firearm malfunctions and discharges - again, using the example of the XDs discharging when chambering a round - is it not an accidental discharge?

NO it is not, because there is NO damage or injury. It is just a discharge that was unintentional. A accident denotes damage to person or property. If some idiot chambers a round in an XD and it injures someone or damages property that idiot has had a negligent discharge.

It is one of the reasons professionals use clearing barrels. Accident should be stricken from the dictionary because there is no such thing. There is always a reason, whether the reason is a malfunction or human error does not matter. Anytime there is damage to property or/and injury the idiot has had a negligent discharge.

People who believe in accidents are not competent enough to carry firearms.
 
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Primus

Regular Member
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Oct 24, 2013
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United States
NO it is not, because there is NO damage or injury. It is just a discharge that was unintentional. A accident denotes damage to person or property. If some idiot chambers a round in an XD and it injures someone or damages property that idiot has had a negligent discharge.

It is one of the reasons professionals use clearing barrels. Accident should be stricken from the dictionary because there is no such thing. There is always a reason, whether the reason is a malfunction or human error does not matter. Anytime there is damage to property or/and injury the idiot has had a negligent discharge.

People who believe in accidents are not competent enough to carry firearms.

Oh ok... I'll forward your post to Webster and the rest so they can modify the English language to take out accident since you think its dumb. While I'm at it I'll spread it to school curriculum and national news.

Breaking news ..... "Today in an exclusive we learned Walking Wolf never made a mistake or had an accident in his entire life. Either he was being an idiot or he was perfect... no in between. Sorry folks your either idiots or perfect. Also, anyone who currently owns firearms line up and turn them in. Walking wolf has declared you not competent enough to carry that firearm if you believe or have had any accident in your life. He'll take all your cool old SA shooting irons since he's never had an accident and is clearly the most qualified to be labeling all of you idiots, incompetent, and unworthy of firearms. Back to our scheduled programing.... gun owners still line up CT to register their firearms in 4 feet of snow....."

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

eye95

Well-known member
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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
An accident is an unforeseen event. No damage is required. JAS is describing an accidental discharge.

Despite the incessant denials of one person, reasonable folks will surely conclude that there is such a thing as an accidental discharge.

The point is well-taken, though, that almost all unintentional discharges are negligent and that the person in charge of the firearm at the time needs to explore what was done wrong and act in a way in the future to avoid that error.

Following all safety rules can ensure that even a negligent discharge does no damage.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
That's why I don't like, or have any, guns with only a trigger safety. The XD, and others, have both a grip and trigger safety, making the incident the unfortunate police chief experienced, almost impossible. His first injury due to ND was even more avoidable, and IMO stupid.

Agreed. I don't care how popular Glocks are amongst the tacticool tool/fanboy crowd. For EDC, an external safety such as a grip safety or thumb safety is only prudent (true double-action triggers are OK, too).

I'm aware of far more individuals who have shot themselves with their Glock than I am individuals who have, actually in reality, had difficulty deactivating the thumb safety on a 1911 in an emergency (anybody who says this is a "small motor function" has never actually bothered to draw a 1911), or who've failed to activate their XD grip safety in an emergency.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
The "safety between the ears" has been found to be one of the most unreliable safeties ever "installed" into a gun. Fortunately, and knock on wood, the one I have has yet to fail me.

Agreed. I don't hear this enough.

Human error happens. Expect it, account for it, or you're a fool.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Messages
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Fairfax County, Virginia
Grip safety doesn't do jack diddily, he even says in the article he was pushing down on the gun to holster it, meaning a hand on grip, disengaging the grip safety and allowing it to be fired. so an XD would make no dfference.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

To holster the XD without any risk of ejecting the chambered round, I find it best to holster with my thumb on the back of the slide (this is perfectly natural and doesn't slow the holstering action, or make it more awkward, btw). With this procedure, the grip safety is deactivated during holstering.

The XD is a safer platform than the Glock, period, end of discussion. Disagreement only proves fanboyism.

I'm sick of the noobery in "conventional wisdom".

In truth, the Glock was designed for braindead, gun-ignorant European idiots who'd never handled a gun before their beneficent government placed one in their hands. Fortunately, I'm an American and, consequently, have the brainpower and experience requisite to properly utilize a firearm (much less a little lever). :rolleyes:
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
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North Carolina
The big problem with the safety between the ears is some people fail to learn, they make excuses. The person in this OP had NOT ONE, but two negligent discharges, with a gun that is supposed to be safe, Ha Ha. Yet he still makes excuses, and then the excuse squad comes to his defense probably because they have screwed up also.

We all do things that fall into the stupid scale, most times very minor, like eating hot food before letting it cool down. Don't blame the food. Hot coffee in your lap at McDonalds drive up, if you don't take responsibility you are a idiot.

Take every experience and apply it to the severity of the damage a firearm can cause. Burn into memory, take full responsibility.
 

marshaul

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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Yet he still makes excuses, and then the excuse squad comes to his defense probably because they have screwed up also.

I'm not making excuses. The guy isn't competent to use his equipment. I recommend he obtain equipment with a higher margin of safety, since he clearly has difficulty with the Glock platform.

Hardly an "excuse" to advocate for equipment which anticipates at least one type of human error – an error which this man has made twice.
 

wimwag

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Dec 10, 2013
Messages
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Doug
Burn into memory, take full responsibility.

Muscle memory. As a martial artist, I can attest that muscle memory will never fail you. Once you make it habit, you always do that one task the same exact way. It's why an Alzheimer's patient who lives in a state of confusion and can no longer speak will begin to play Tchaikovsky flawlessly when placed in front of a piano.

The same goes for bad habits. Someone used to a certain rifle will change up after years of using that rifle and fail to take a deer because they were thumbing at a safety which is not there. (Me.)
 

marshaul

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Fairfax County, Virginia
Muscle memory. As a martial artist, I can attest that muscle memory will never fail you. Once you make it habit, you always do that one task the same exact way.

Until the task changes because, for instance, a rarely-worn coat gets in the way.

Muscle memory does not preclude human error, and it does not account for changing circumstances. I do consider it a prerequisite to effective firearm use, but it's a mistake to believe it's perfect, or will never fail you. It can fail you, and Murphy's law suggests it will fail you.
 
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eye95

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Experience is a good teacher. Bad experience is a better teacher.

There are three ways to learn:

1. Listen to others relate their mistakes.

2. Watch others make mistakes and suffer the consequences.

3. Piss on the electric fence yourself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
When I push down on my XD during the re-holstering process I do not engage the grip safety. It take practice, but once learned, it becomes second nature. I know that a [strike]non-[/strike] manually activated external safety (1911 thumb) is a good way to prevent the wandering finger on the trigger "accident." Knowing the operation of the XD I made adjustments to mitigate a wandering finger. Glocks have no such "back-up" capability.
There are two of us it seems.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

To holster the XD without any risk of ejecting the chambered round, I find it best to holster with my thumb on the back of the slide (this is perfectly natural and doesn't slow the holstering action, or make it more awkward, btw). With this procedure, the grip safety is deactivated during holstering.

The XD is a safer platform than the Glock, period, end of discussion. Disagreement only proves fanboyism.

I'm sick of the noobery in "conventional wisdom".

In truth, the Glock was designed for braindead, gun-ignorant European idiots who'd never handled a gun before their beneficent government placed one in their hands. Fortunately, I'm an American and, consequently, have the brainpower and experience requisite to properly utilize a firearm (much less a little lever). :rolleyes:
The more safeties the safer the gat. Obviously, the fewer the safeties, essentially, for a Glock, the owner must rely upon the "safety between the ears" alone, the unsafer the gat.

The op clearly indicates that the "victim" is a victim of his own negligence that resulted in a accident.

http://dalje.com/en-world/indiana-police-chief-accidentally-shoots-self-in-gun-store/496468
 
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