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Thread: Second illegal arrest in Andrews Texas took place today

  1. #1
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Second illegal arrest in Andrews Texas took place today

    After going on record saying that arrests would not be made solely as a result of open carry, the chief of police, Bud Jones (yes. for real), of Andrews, Texas was present as CATI member Michael Keoughan was arrested today for "disorderly conduct."

    A lieutenant of the force stated that receiving a 911 phone call reporting the activity was evidence enough to determine that the weapon was carried in a manner calculated to alarm, even though it was decided in the 5th District Court of Appeals that this specifically is not the case in Grieves V State.

    If someone can help me figure out how to "properly" cite cases I can edit this post with a more formal reference.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member conandan's Avatar
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    What's going on with Texas. They always had a reputation for being such a pro gun state. Now it seems they are becoming anti-gun.

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    Regular Member ProGun Podcast's Avatar
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    There are a certain, very select and by no means prevalent number of officers in almost any certain, very select and by no means prevalent departments that find it hard not to attempt to exercise their authority against those who celebrate their freedoms.

    When women still wore skirts to swim, the police were there to ensure no swimsuit was immodest

    When women were unable to vote, the police were there to ensure their protests were stopped.

    When women no longer had to wear skirts to swim, the police were there to make sure no woman bared an unfashionable amount of flesh.

    When black men and women were protesting for their right to be treated as full citizens, the police were there to keep those uppity black folk in line.

    When there was a peaceful protest by the "Occupy" movement, the police were there to respond.

    When a legal rider in the Critical Mass cyclist demonstration rode past an officer, the police were there to assault him.


    No worries though, these are all just 'isolated incidents.'
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-22-2014 at 10:40 PM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    There are a certain, very select and by no means prevalent number of officers in almost any certain, very select and by no means prevalent departments that find it hard not to attempt to exercise their authority against those who celebrate their freedoms.

    When women still wore skirts to swim, the police were there to ensure no swimsuit was immodest

    When women were unable to vote, the police were there to ensure their protests were stopped.

    When women no longer had to wear skirts to swim, the police were there to make sure no woman bared an unfashionable amount of flesh.

    When black men and women were protesting for their right to be treated as full citizens, the police were there to keep those uppity black folk in line.

    When there was a peaceful protest by the "Occupy" movement, the police were there to respond.

    When a legal rider in the Critical Mass cyclist demonstration rode past an officer, the police were there to assault him.


    No worries though, these are all just 'isolated incidents.'
    I'm curious falls... your first paragraph was well written and I agree with it. Yet then your links after that and then the "isolated incidents" comment at the end makes me the think it was all sarcasm?

    Am I getting the gist of it?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Let me see if I understand this correctly.

    Andrews PD is stating in effect that a 911 call reporting a person carrying a gun in public automatically establishes probable cause under 42.01 (a)(8) prior to any determination of the state of mind of the actor.

    I can only assume that it is also the official position of the Andrews PD that a 911 call reporting a person using ABUSIVE, INDECENT, PROFANE, or VULGAR language in a public place automatically establishes probable cause under 42.01 (a)(1) prior to any determination as to whether the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace.

    Very interesting.........

    Now, can we assume that the County Attorney down there knows better..........?
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 01-23-2014 at 03:59 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    What's going on with Texas. They always had a reputation for being such a pro gun state. Now it seems they are becoming anti-gun.
    Reputations don't always correspond with reality. This one certainly hasn't in my lifetime.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ProGun Podcast's Avatar
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    Some quick updates on the situation in Andrews.

    This saturday (Jan 25, 2014) CATI-Midland/Odessa will be holding an event in Andrews at the courthouse at 2:00pm CT. Also the arestee and Andrews Police chief were interviewed on camera (Link below). It now appears that there is some controversy (on facebook) about the arestee entering a 7-11 store that sells alcohol while OCing and some debate as to what role the school does/can play in potential charges. If the arestee has a CHL I am unsure if that is enough to legally bypass the TABC blue sign while OCing a long gun. In a related note I do not know if a CHL provides an exemption to the GFSZ act for an OC'd a long gun. I need to research the codified law and case law to determine what is and is not. In the video a number of things strike me as odd, but I want to see if anyone picks up on a particular statement I caught. also I plan to visit the CATI rally on saturday and hope to have a podcast episode out on the situation (and maybe a Joey Posey situation update if possible since it is all tangled up as part of this mess).

    http://www.newswest9.com/story/24535...hief-speak-out

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProGun Podcast View Post
    Some quick updates on the situation in Andrews.

    This saturday (Jan 25, 2014) CATI-Midland/Odessa will be holding an event in Andrews at the courthouse at 2:00pm CT. Also the arestee and Andrews Police chief were interviewed on camera (Link below). It now appears that there is some controversy (on facebook) about the arestee entering a 7-11 store that sells alcohol while OCing and some debate as to what role the school does/can play in potential charges. If the arestee has a CHL I am unsure if that is enough to legally bypass the TABC blue sign while OCing a long gun. In a related note I do not know if a CHL provides an exemption to the GFSZ act for an OC'd a long gun. I need to research the codified law and case law to determine what is and is not. In the video a number of things strike me as odd, but I want to see if anyone picks up on a particular statement I caught. also I plan to visit the CATI rally on saturday and hope to have a podcast episode out on the situation (and maybe a Joey Posey situation update if possible since it is all tangled up as part of this mess).

    http://www.newswest9.com/story/24535...hief-speak-out
    Sorry, we don't care, this forum's rules ban talking about l*ng gun*.

    PS are you a lawyer? if so be aware that arrestee has two 'r's. HTH

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Sorry, we don't care, this forum's rules ban talking about l*ng gun*.

    PS are you a lawyer? if so be aware that arrestee has two 'r's. HTH
    No, you don't care.

    Read the forum rules before you pop-off about the forum rules.
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions which ban handgun carry but not long gun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
    It seems that Texas meets the criteria of the exception.

  11. #11
    Regular Member ProGun Podcast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Sorry, we don't care, this forum's rules ban talking about l*ng gun*.

    PS are you a lawyer? if so be aware that arrestee has two 'r's. HTH
    Sorry if I offended you, but as the previous poster said Texas has no legal handgun OC therefore Rifle OC discussion is allowed per forum rules. If you wish to attack me feel free, I personally don't care. I do apologize for misspelling a single word a few times after a long day at work, I'm only human and must have forgotton to tap a key twice instead of once.

    One thing I would like to point out is that when Texas finally does legalize OC of handguns we will more than likely see the same tactics used to suppress it as we are seeing used to suppress long gun OC.

    Finally I did not realize that one had to be a lawyer to research the codified law and case law, I will desist immediately /sarcasm.
    Last edited by ProGun Podcast; 01-24-2014 at 08:56 AM.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProGun Podcast View Post
    One thing I would like to point out is that when Texas finally does legalize OC of handguns we will more than likely see the same tactics used to suppress it as we are seeing used to suppress long gun OC.
    Excellent point, and something that we should all be considering.

    Also, thank you for the (factual, good, unbiased) updates! Please, keep them coming. I am also very interested to see what you're able to find regarding the 7-11 and alcohol sales issue, and the school issue.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    What's going on with Texas. They always had a reputation for being such a pro gun state.
    Texas propaganda is full of other sorts of lies, too.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProGun Podcast View Post
    Sorry if I offended you, but as the previous poster said Texas has no legal handgun OC therefore Rifle OC discussion is allowed per forum rules. If you wish to attack me feel free, I personally don't care. I do apologize for misspelling a single word a few times after a long day at work, I'm only human and must have forgotton to tap a key twice instead of once.

    One thing I would like to point out is that when Texas finally does legalize OC of handguns we will more than likely see the same tactics used to suppress it as we are seeing used to suppress long gun OC.

    Finally I did not realize that one had to be a lawyer to research the codified law and case law, I will desist immediately /sarcasm.
    Lighten up, Francis. (You misspelled forgotten.) I'm happy to learn the forum rules allow LG discussion if the word Taxes is used!

    I do care that the Chief is speaking with forked tongue and when the guy wins his case and sues the city, will the Chief be sorry?

    I need to research the codified law and case law to determine what is and is not.
    What is the point of talking like a lawyer, or reviewing case law and telling us that like it makes any difference? I don't get it. You change laws by voting, not by playing junior lawyer (unless there's a point, which I'd like to hear).

    Are you doing a Podcast as spokesperson? Do these ersatz groups have any real purpose or are they just like Cosplaying, or SCA-ing?

    As to the guy with the Travis Bickle haircut, if he'd have dressed in a suit, cowboy hat, Texas tie (like the chief) he would not have been arrested. He's scary, he doesn't get it. Is he wrong - heck no, just a bit foolish, unless he's doing it to make a point. If so, what? How does that 'point' get Texas law changed, or bring OC or UC to Texas?

    In other places people 'Lobby' - have Lobby day. Demonstrations, single walk arounds just cause death threats and ill-will, don't they? Who knows, maybe people will wake up, get common sense and stop fearing guys with non-traditional hair-cuts and grubby outfits walking into a store, much like actual robbers might start doing?

    But am I offended? Nope - it's a forum. Have a good day.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    GFZ's 1,000 ft from schools, and TABC "UNlicensed FIREARM" criteria is met, because ONLY the carrying of a handgun requires a license in Texas....and subject had a CHL at the time.

    Law enforcement just isn't LIKING the LAWFUL carry of AR's & AK's...so they are searching for a rack to hang their hats on.

    What ever happened to our SWORN OATHS to uphold the LAWS of TEXAS - boys & girls.....?
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 01-24-2014 at 08:53 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Oh, he was arrested because he incited a riot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAkTUH4tnGI

    Wait....... there was a riot? Didn't think so. What a ******* joke. "I'm not worried about that" In response to reference of Grieves vs. State. Essentially "I'm not worried about the law, give me your papers"
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 01-24-2014 at 11:14 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Oh, he was arrested because he incited a riot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAkTUH4tnGI

    Wait....... there was a riot? Didn't think so. What a ******* joke. "I'm not worried about that" In response to reference of Grieves vs. State. Essentially "I'm not worried about the law, give me your papers"
    "... the only thing that has to happen is that we receive a phone call that our public is alarmed about..."
    Cool, so if I call because there's a Chinese man dressed in polka dots and walking a little froufrou dog and I'm alarmed about it they'll respond?

  18. #18
    Regular Member ProGun Podcast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Lighten up, Francis. (You misspelled forgotten.) I'm happy to learn the forum rules allow LG discussion if the word Taxes is used!

    I do care that the Chief is speaking with forked tongue and when the guy wins his case and sues the city, will the Chief be sorry?



    What is the point of talking like a lawyer, or reviewing case law and telling us that like it makes any difference? I don't get it. You change laws by voting, not by playing junior lawyer (unless there's a point, which I'd like to hear).

    Are you doing a Podcast as spokesperson? Do these ersatz groups have any real purpose or are they just like Cosplaying, or SCA-ing?

    As to the guy with the Travis Bickle haircut, if he'd have dressed in a suit, cowboy hat, Texas tie (like the chief) he would not have been arrested. He's scary, he doesn't get it. Is he wrong - heck no, just a bit foolish, unless he's doing it to make a point. If so, what? How does that 'point' get Texas law changed, or bring OC or UC to Texas?

    In other places people 'Lobby' - have Lobby day. Demonstrations, single walk arounds just cause death threats and ill-will, don't they? Who knows, maybe people will wake up, get common sense and stop fearing guys with non-traditional hair-cuts and grubby outfits walking into a store, much like actual robbers might start doing?

    But am I offended? Nope - it's a forum. Have a good day.
    Spelling is not a real priority when typing on a tiny keyboard on a cell phone screen, my spell check is disabled for reasons too long to list here. As for talking like a lawyer, I'm not quite sure how I did that but ok, I have also been accused of talking like a LEO (Not one of those either).

    Under our republic form of government you really don't vote to change laws. You vote for someone who you hope will change the laws the way you want more often than not. Knowledge of the law is critical if you want it changed or if you are living under it. I carry under a CHL, and only carry long guns when going to the range or hunting so the law in regards to long guns and a TABC licensed buisiness is not something I am readily aware of. Same goes for GFSZs, long guns, and CHLs. What do you do when you don't know the law as well as you would like on a matter? The answer is research it.

    I do not serve as a spokesperson for any group. My podcast is more a hobby and due to these events being one county over from where I live and work this issue is litterally hitting close to home. I will admit that Andrews County and Gaines County each have more square miles of land than Rhode Island, but it still close to home for me. I will also admit to wanting to see Handgun OC legal in Texas, even if I do not plan to utilize it much if ever. As for these groups they are doing this, well that is a little more involved. The Texas legislature meets once every two years for a brief amount of time thereby limiting the amount of damage they can do to the state, unfortunately this means that we have a limited amount of time to undo damage as well. The legislature can be called into a special session by the Governor, but he did not add any firearms related issues to the recent special sessions. Between regular sessions is when you work to raise awareness of your cause. Due to the limited amount of time that the legislature meets lobby days are rare, and even then due to the fast pace that the legislature takes in order to do as much as possible it becomes difficult to interact with elected officials directly leaving you to deal with interns and other staffers. If you can raise awareness and generate sufficient good publicity to get people to call in and support your issue then you have a better chance at success.

  19. #19
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The 42.01 (a)(8) offense allegation based only upon a 911 call in the absence of any supporting evidence (video) that the actor did more than simply carry his firearm, or the arresting officer actually observing the alleged disorderly conduct - is totally baseless.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 01-25-2014 at 05:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    The 42.01 (a)(8) offense allegation based only upon a 911 call in the absence of any supporting evidence (video) that the actor did more than simply carry his firearm, or the arresting officer actually observing the alleged disorderly conduct - is totally baseless.
    Of course it is; you know that, I know that, the officer knows that as well.
    The arrest isn't so the gentleman can be prosecuted, the arrest is so that he can cool his heels for a bit while Officer Friendly goes out and has a beer with his buds. He knows the gentleman will likely be less enthusiastic about carrying next time if he thinks the same thing will happen.

    It's just a mind game (although one with legal consequences to our side). If the charges are nolle pross'd, I'd seriously consider asking the record to be expunged; it's an extremely inexpensive process usually and may probably not even require a lawyer.

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    Regular Member ProGun Podcast's Avatar
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    I just came back from the event and got some work done on the audio where it can be understood. The following was recorded with a handheld recorder in open air, just a few feet from U.S. Highway 385 while the speaker was using a bull horn. Due to technical issues with their equipment the two YouTube clips he did play were unintelligible so they were edited out and replaced with the actual audio from youtube. The audio is difficult to understand at times and at points is unintelligible. The speakers in this audio clip are James Franklin and Michael Keoughan (The person arrested that this thread is about). Michael's audio tends to be better in this recording.

    The audio can be found here: http://traffic.libsyn.com/preview/pr...econd-edit.mp3

    Edit to add that I have gotten photos from the event up on our facebook page: http://facebook.com/progunpodcast
    Last edited by ProGun Podcast; 01-26-2014 at 12:46 AM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The same group of citizens being harassed by the cops should focus on which cops are harassing. If the same cop(s) are arresting and the PA continues to not prosecute, those cops can be identified as thug cops and possible held to account. The 1A is out there for use to restrain the state. It ain't libel or slander if it is true.....right?

  23. #23
    Regular Member ProGun Podcast's Avatar
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    My internet connection came back to life and Episode 51 is available. There is a brief interview with Michael Keoughan of CATI Midland-Odessa (The arrestee in this thread). I talk about Silencers and the Andrews Event from Saturday. The shownotes and audio are available from: http://tiny.cc/c3ucax

    Just a quick note, I was using sinus medication while recording that episode and while it did not seem effective it was critical to actually getting something done.
    Last edited by ProGun Podcast; 01-27-2014 at 12:24 PM.

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