Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: new, lead-free hollow point looks....incredible?!

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    united states
    Posts
    627

    new, lead-free hollow point looks....incredible?!

    holy cow. Talk about a one hitter quitter.

    http://thelibertydigest.com/2014/01/...ners-drooling/

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Several things about it made me laugh. This was the best:
    Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing
    Wow! Where can I get some!

    Now, the company is going to add me to their list of salivating gun owners scouring the country looking for it...
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Several things about it made me laugh. This was the best:

    Wow! Where can I get some!

    Now, the company is going to add me to their list of salivating gun owners scouring the country looking for it...
    +1

    Others have made similar projectiles .. cost too much ... nothing really different than a regular SP bullet

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Word down here in Georgia is that it's $2.20... per round. Now you know what it costs to CNC cut small slits in little bits of copper.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-25-2014 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Word down here in Georgia is that it's $2.20... per round. Now you know what it costs to CNC cut small slits in little bits of copper.
    What it costs to cut copper? That's cheap once its set up ...

    $2.20 / rd .... that's why it won't sell.

    Looks like they are looking for a 6 mos. ROI ....

  6. #6
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mid-atlantic
    Posts
    1,505
    I would never suggest that LEOs have this ammo.

    I would never approve of them EDC-ing this devastating round.

    I would never approve of Homeland Sec. ordering 400,000 of these.

    Having said that, if I did, I'd suggest and approve them to seriously consider not carrying Glocks.

    Even at $2 a bullet, it would be cool to have a ten round CLIP of these in a magazine or two for 9mm. Being a merciful person, I don't know I could do more than have a little box as a desk display, not as an EDC.

    Cool post, OP.

    PS - it would give 'Glock Leg' a whole, new meaning.

  7. #7
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,273
    Looks like it would chew up ramps on alloy frames with rampless barrels.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    199

    Wow

    I hope they make some in 500 S@W. That can really take out some bowling pins.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    I hope they make some in 500 S@W. That can really take out some bowling pins.
    PinGrabber

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    united states
    Posts
    627
    I actually hadn't watched the video with the sound on. The thought of LEO using these rounds is terrifying.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    ...The thought of LEO using these rounds is terrifying.
    Only by budget constraints of tax-payer money buying the things.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  12. #12
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Looks like it would chew up ramps on alloy frames with rampless barrels.
    I was thinking similarly, but in the opposite direction:

    Do you think the .45 version, if it has the same nose profile (don't see why it wouldn't), could be a gobstopper of a feed problem for 1911's? (rampless, or otherwise)

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Árida Zona
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Lots of weird looking rounds there. This was the most interesting:

    And this picture shows a round that looks like the "salivator" round being discussed (4th row, leftmost round "cobra"):
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  14. #14
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Árida Zona
    Posts
    1,648
    Also, wasn't there a round made by Aguila which was also made without any lead? I believe it was an all-aluminium HP bullet that boasted great fragmentation properties as well...?

    Yep.


    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,150
    I wouldn't want to risk a mis-feed in a pistol that's a picky eater. Can you imagine the hoplophobic horror in the prosecuting attorney's voice, and his jury, as he hands one to each of them? I'll stick with my tried and true EFMJ -- -- Oh, and they're paid for.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I wouldn't want to risk a mis-feed in a pistol that's a picky eater. Can you imagine the hoplophobic horror in the prosecuting attorney's voice, and his jury, as he hands one to each of them? I'll stick with my tried and true EFMJ -- -- Oh, and they're paid for.
    Standard, run-of-the-mill, hollow points are already portrayed as evil, murderous, "cop killer" bullets.

    These must be the new pregnant woman killer, child rapist bullets.

    I carry RA-40T's (Ranger-T's) in my XDm. (Not in my SA 1911 as I'm worried about nose profile and feed properties, therefore, I opt for POW-R-Balls since they have the profile of a FMJ from their round polymer nose) The expansion properties along with the wicked "razorlike" petals of the Ranger-T's make a devastating wound channel in ballistic gel. In the faux world of "stopping power" (there's no such animal) what most uneducated folks attribute to "stopping power" is actually the ability of a particular round to cause an attacker to "bleed out". The bigger the wound channel, the quicker blood loss causes them to "stop"....= "stopping power". (This is all secondary to shot placement. A direct shot to the heart with a .22lr has more "stopping power" than a miss with any other particular caliber, or bullet type, so this whole "stopping power" argument is only relevant if you take shot placement out of the equation.)

    The particular properties of this projectile raise another question its sales pitch fails to adress:

    It advertises a 6" wound channel. Is it a true 6" wound channel, or is it simply multiple smaller wound channels that are 6 inches apart? If I throw a handful of ball bearings at a piece of drywall and the distance between where they punch through is measured at 3 feet, can I honestly say I knocked a 3 foot hole through the drywall, or did I truthfully only poke tiny little holes through it that are 3 feet apart?

    I KNOW my Ranger-T's cause a single, devastating wound channel. I would seriously question the effectiveness of several smaller wound channels in comparison as it hasn't really been tested.

    What we have here is simply a marketing ploy: These rounds LOOK scary = they must be effective.

    No thanks. I'll choose actual science, known qualities, and actual, proven effects over "These things look awesome, they must work great!" 10 times out of 10, every time I'm offered the choice.

    I would be interested to know if having such a wide spread of projectile expansion would cause an effective increase to the actual shot placement. In English: Would the fact that a 6" spread of smaller wound channels allow for more leeway in missing vital organs? i.e. If I achieved a "hit" 3" from the heart, would one of these smaller wound channels the separate "petals" offer allow me to actually hit the heart with a shot so far away? A definitive answer to this question would be interesting, however, a favorable answer still wouldn't be enough to alleviate my concerns about bullet profile/feed properties.
    Last edited by Superlite27; 01-26-2014 at 10:45 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,273
    A person can be killed or stopped without ever creating a wound channel, or any type of penetration. I don't remember the proper terminology but besides the wound channel rounds do damage to surrounding tissue. Higher velocity from a 30 caliber rifle round fmj will damage organs and tissue far beyond the wound channel. Bleeding out takes several seconds, and cannot be counted on to stop a threat. If shot in the vest with a powerful handgun, and striking the heart, it can kill, without penetrating the vest.

    That said I am not impressed by a round that is only 95gr to begin with, and breaks up into 9 much smaller and lighter pieces. It would be equivalent in power to being shot 9 times with a high powered BB gun.

    Doesn't matter though, politicians and LE will gasp, and Obama will outlaw the bullets as cop killers with a executive order.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,603
    Cor-bon DPX (no lead) has some superior qualities, though not as effective against heavy clothing.

    It is one of my preferred warm weather loadings.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148...free-box-of-20

    Tend to carry Federal HST during the colder months.

    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....HST-as-control
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Cor-bon DPX (no lead) has some superior qualities, though not as effective against heavy clothing.

    It is one of my preferred warm weather loadings.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148...free-box-of-20

    Tend to carry Federal HST during the colder months.

    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....HST-as-control
    Unless I am using high velocity rounds, and I only do that in rifles, I use soft lead bullets, even in the semi autos. A couple exceptions are 380 and my Star Super A. The bullet in the 380 needs penetration so it needs to stay consistent upon and during entry. The 9mm Largo travels at higher velocities for using a lead bullet, and has the velocity to have consistent expansion upon entry.

    Pure lead has always been my favorite since hunting with muzzleloaders. It is very effective on two legged vermin also. When I was still working we were issued silver tips but I would have been just as happy with lead. For personal protection details we carried Hydra Shock safety slugs. Protection details usually entailed being in the presence of clumps of people, to crowds. Again I would have been just as happy with a soft lead bullet. A wadcutter does not usually over penetrate.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    3,193
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Unless I am using high velocity rounds, and I only do that in rifles, I use soft lead bullets, even in the semi autos. A couple exceptions are 380 and my Star Super A. The bullet in the 380 needs penetration so it needs to stay consistent upon and during entry. The 9mm Largo travels at higher velocities for using a lead bullet, and has the velocity to have consistent expansion upon entry.

    Pure lead has always been my favorite since hunting with muzzleloaders. It is very effective on two legged vermin also. When I was still working we were issued silver tips but I would have been just as happy with lead. For personal protection details we carried Hydra Shock safety slugs. Protection details usually entailed being in the presence of clumps of people, to crowds. Again I would have been just as happy with a soft lead bullet. A wadcutter does not usually over penetrate.
    So were you using Federal Hydra Shocks that are a hollow point bullet or were you using Glaser Safety Slug that is a frangible bullet made by Cor-bon.

    Two different manufactures two different bullet styles.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  21. #21
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Unless I am using high velocity rounds, and I only do that in rifles, I use soft lead bullets......

    Pure lead has always been my favorite..........
    You wouldn't happen to be an Elmer Keith fan, would you?

    There's something to be said about traditional vs. technology (and I think this spans all things, not just firearms) in that we always seem to lean toward "newer is better". While minds will always improve on existing items by experimentation and development, we often forget that things that work well do not stop working well simply because they age and newer developments are discovered.

    In the rush to seek better performance and the latest, greatest doohickey, we often discard things that perform excellently, often for no better reason than it's old.

    In the search for the nextest, bestest thing, the fact that plain 'ol lead is HEAVY, offering excellent penetration, SOFT, offering excellent expansion, SOLID, offering excellent bonding properties without jacket/core separation (although it does sprall a little upon impact with solid objects such as windows or car doors), and CHEAP, offering excellent economic features is often overlooked in our search for something "more perfect" for lack of a better description.
    Last edited by Superlite27; 01-26-2014 at 12:16 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Suffolk Virginia
    Posts
    699
    I'm easy. Anything that feeds reliable through my chamber gets the call. 230gr pdx1 for everyday oc carry. 185gr critical defense for light concealment times. Example of such a day, would be at the ball field with the kids.

    If I feel the need to wear my super tuck, 165gr federal hs gets the call. Little less weight, makes the biggest difference in comfort.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    For those very few times when stopping power makes the difference in a self-defense shooting, it is done so by energy transfer, not wound channel. We don't care about the longer-term effects of the wound channel.

    Give me a slow, fat, lead .45; copper jacket is optional.

    Hollowpoints are great when you need them on a high velocity and small diameter bullet. But they do NOT need to be anything fancy, unless there is a pretty girl holding them in the advertisement.
    Last edited by MAC702; 01-26-2014 at 01:29 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    [ ... ] There's something to be said about traditional vs. technology (and I think this spans all things, not just firearms) in that we always seem to lean toward "newer is better". While minds will always improve on existing items by experimentation and development, we often forget that things that work well do not stop working well simply because they age and newer developments are discovered. In the rush to seek better performance and the latest, greatest doohickey, we often discard things that perform excellently, often for no better reason than it's old [ ... ]
    You have illuminated the heart and soul of progressivism.

    Forward willy-nilly, damn the unintended consequences. Forward!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    So were you using Federal Hydra Shocks that are a hollow point bullet or were you using Glaser Safety Slug that is a frangible bullet made by Cor-bon.

    Two different manufactures two different bullet styles.
    It's been 20 years since I worked personal protection, but the bullets looked like a inverted wadcutter with a spire in the center. They were in 38 spl used in model 15 2 inch barrel. Regular duty rounds were 38 +P silver tips. Duty rounds for the model 39 were jacketed hollow points.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •