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Thread: Is this information correct? (CHP)

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    Regular Member R027's Avatar
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    Is this information correct? (CHP)

    WHAT TO DO IF STOPPED BY A POLICE OFFICER

    • Immediately advise the officer that you have a concealed firearm.
    • Never touch or move towards the gun.
    • Keep your hands in plain view and make no sudden moves.
    • Obey all commands given by the officer.
    • Make no attempt to produce identification until told to do so.
    • Ask the officer to repeat any directions or questions that are unclear.
    http://www.pwcgov.org/government/dep...formation.aspx


    I have read that VA doesn't require you to inform unless asked to. Which is correct?

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    To be honest, that should be titled, "How to Make My Life Easier at the Expense of Your Rights"

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    Quote Originally Posted by R027 View Post
    http://www.pwcgov.org/government/dep...formation.aspx


    I have read that VA doesn't require you to inform unless asked to. Which is correct?
    From Virginia Code:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+18.2-308.01

    The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the U.S. Department of Defense or U.S. State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.
    Btw, I find this statement on the PWC site (linked above) particularly repulsive. Lawfully carrying a firearm is not a 'privilege'... its a Right (as in 'Bill of Rights').

    With the privilege of carrying a concealed firearm in Virginia come certain responsibilities especially when interacting with police officers.

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    And.... on this page:
    http://www.pwcgov.org/government/cou...un-Permit.aspx

    Please include a self-addressed stamped envelope or $.50 to cover the cost of mailing.
    You are not required to provide them with an envelope, or additional funds for mailing.

    Please print out and include the initialed worksheet with your application.
    You are not required to print out and include their 'worksheet'.

    A decision will be made within 45 days of receipt of application.
    There is no 'decision'. They are not deciding if you can have one or not. You either meet the eligibility criteria, or you don't. There is nothing to 'decide'.

    There is probably more as well....

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    To be honest, that should be titled, "How to Make My Life Easier at the Expense of Your Rights"
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Btw, I find this statement on the PWC site (linked above) particularly repulsive. Lawfully carrying a firearm is not a 'privilege'... its a Right (as in 'Bill of Rights').

    With the privilege of carrying a concealed firearm in Virginia come certain responsibilities especially when interacting with police officers.


    Unfortunately I have to disagree, as they have qualified their statement with, "concealed". Carrying a conceled firearm is a violation of state law unless one has obtained a permit to break the law.

    Since nobody has directly answered your question yet:
    One is not required to inform a police officer in Virginia, and I will never do so myself if I happen to be carrying concealed as it's just asking for more headache.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Unfortunately I have to disagree, as they have qualified their statement with, "concealed". Carrying a conceled firearm is a violation of state law unless one has obtained a permit to break the law.

    Since nobody has directly answered your question yet:
    One is not required to inform a police officer in Virginia, and I will never do so myself if I happen to be carrying concealed as it's just asking for more headache.
    There's more. One is only required to inform:
    1. On demand by...
    2. If carrying a firearm concealed.

    This would imply that if there is no demand, you could say 'I'd rather not, but I do have one if you demand it'. In my research, only about 1 in 5 State police will even bother asking you about it. (There's a reason for this...)

    Most of the time they will not be that concerned, and do not want you digging around for your permit. (There's a reason for this...)

    Some have alleged they do not ask to see it because they've already seen it and read it and want to get you to talk about your tool and its location, though they can't demand that you disclose unless there's clear RAS you are doing or about to do a crime (a felony).

    If you are NOT carrying you do not have to answer. In fact in a classic traffic stop you can, even should do nothing but give your license, registration and PoI. It's so easy a 'deaf/mute' driver could do it. They might ask to see your seeing-eye range dog, hah.


    HTH/YMMV
    Last edited by Maverick9; 01-25-2014 at 08:33 PM.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    There's more. One is only required to inform:
    1. On demand by...
    2. If carrying a firearm concealed.
    I should have said so, but from the OPs post I was under the assumption that he knew one must be asked in order to be required to inform.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    There's more. One is only required to inform:
    1. On demand by...
    2. If carrying a firearm concealed.

    This would imply that if there is no demand, you could say 'I'd rather not, but I do have one if you demand it'. In my research, only about 1 in 5 State police will even bother asking you about it. (There's a reason for this...)

    Most of the time they will not be that concerned, and do not want you digging around for your permit. (There's a reason for this...)

    Some have alleged they do not ask to see it because they've already seen it and read it and want to get you to talk about your tool and its location, though they can't demand that you disclose unless there's clear RAS you are doing or about to do a crime (a felony).

    If you are NOT carrying you do not have to answer. In fact in a classic traffic stop you can, even should do nothing but give your license, registration and PoI. It's so easy a 'deaf/mute' driver could do it. They might ask to see your seeing-eye range dog, hah.


    HTH/YMMV
    You do not have to provide proof of insurance in Virginia*. In fact, you don't even have to have insurance. If you don't, an additional charge is added to your registration application which does not provide insurance for you.


    * corrections invited if in error
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    You do not have to provide proof of insurance in Virginia*. In fact, you don't even have to have insurance. If you don't, an additional charge is added to your registration application which does not provide insurance for you.


    * corrections invited if in error
    Have fun with that SR-22

    Cite:
    Penalties
    Vehicle owners who are uninsured or have not paid the UMV fee will have their driving and vehicle registration privileges suspended. To be reinstated, they must pay a $500 statutory fee, file a Financial Responsibility Insurance Certificate (SR-22) with DMV for three years, and pay a reinstatement fee, if applicable.
    Verification of Insurance Coverage
    DMV monitors insurance coverage through our Insurance Verification Program.
    Insurance carriers provide DMV with electronic updates of insured information and vehicle description when they cancel, add and write new coverage for motor vehicles registered in Virginia.
    DMV verifies that motor vehicles are properly insured by comparing vehicle registration information on file at DMV with liability information transmitted by insurance carriers. When no insurance is found, the motor vehicle owner is required to furnish policy information to DMV for verification.
    If you have received an Insurance Verification Inquiry letter from DMV requesting information about your insurance policy, you may submit that information online.
    Additional Information
    Last edited by FBrinson; 01-25-2014 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Added Citation

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    You do not have to provide proof of insurance in Virginia*. In fact, you don't even have to have insurance. If you don't, an additional charge is added to your registration application which does not provide insurance for you.


    * corrections invited if in error
    I was trying to figure what the hel POI was. I guess I could show my checkbook if asked.

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    Regular Member optiksguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    You do not have to provide proof of insurance in Virginia*. In fact, you don't even have to have insurance. If you don't, an additional charge is added to your registration application which does not provide insurance for you.
    This is my understanding as well. I recall a story a year or so back about LEO writing citations for lack of insurance based on a misreading of Section 46.2-902.1.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+46.2-902.1

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    Yes you must have insurance in Virginia to drive. The other option is pay the uninsured motorist fee which I believe is $400. DMV checks periodically, to see if your insurance is current through the computer system. If you're flagged, a letter is sent warning you, and you are given x number of days to comply. They even give you a insurance form to update you info.

    Failure to respond to the letter is $85, plus the $500 fine.

    I've never been asked to show proof of insurance, but I've notice more people mentioning of cops asking for it lately.

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    Last edited by mpguy; 01-26-2014 at 09:23 AM.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I appreciate the correction, which is why I flagged that as such, regarding what I posted above about insurance in Virginia. It was once that way as I remember and since I rarely ever get stopped (last stop in Virginia for a moving violation was in 1966), I am somewhat out of date with my info. Hell, I don't even know how "points" work.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I appreciate the correction, which is why I flagged that as such, regarding what I posted above about insurance in Virginia. It was once that way as I remember and since I rarely ever get stopped (last stop in Virginia for a moving violation was in 1966), I am somewhat out of date with my info. Hell, I don't even know how "points" work.
    I'm younger my friend, and neither do I! . I can count on one hand in, less than three fingers, that I've been stopped. I plan to keep it that way. *knock on wood*

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    I'm younger my friend, and neither do I! . I can count on one hand in, less than three fingers, that I've been stopped. I plan to keep it that way. *knock on wood*

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
    Funny isn't it, that when you tell people that they don't tend to believe you. They look at you as if to say, "Yeah, right". I have been stopped three times since 1966. Once for speeding in Maryland, which that time I was not doing what the LEO said, once because a Fairfax LEO saw no county sticker on my car (we didn't use them where I lived at the time), and once by a state police LEO who I am certain was in training (there were two in the car. Neither the Fairfax LEO nor the state police issued any citations of any kind (Fairfax LEO couldn't because I didn't need a sticker where I lived - we were issued a small metal license plate like was common in the 60's which went on the front state plate).

    So yes September 1966 was the last moving violation I received in Virginia. My goal is to keep it that way the rest of my life, regardless of the state. This is not to say I drive like the proverbial old lady by any stretch. I'm just careful and watch what the heck is going on around me.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Funny isn't it, that when you tell people that they don't tend to believe you. They look at you as if to say, "Yeah, right". I have been stopped three times since 1966. Once for speeding in Maryland, which that time I was not doing what the LEO said, once because a Fairfax LEO saw no county sticker on my car (we didn't use them where I lived at the time), and once by a state police LEO who I am certain was in training (there were two in the car. Neither the Fairfax LEO nor the state police issued any citations of any kind (Fairfax LEO couldn't because I didn't need a sticker where I lived - we were issued a small metal license plate like was common in the 60's which went on the front state plate).

    So yes September 1966 was the last moving violation I received in Virginia. My goal is to keep it that way the rest of my life, regardless of the state. This is not to say I drive like the proverbial old lady by any stretch. I'm just careful and watch what the heck is going on around me.
    I've never gotten a moving violation but I did get a ticket for a dead inspection the other day. He asked for license and registration which I gave him, then he asked where I was going and I told him to mind his own business....then he wrote the ticket

    Never mentioned Insurance or the gun next to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I've never gotten a moving violation but I did get a ticket for a dead inspection the other day. He asked for license and registration which I gave him, then he asked where I was going and I told him to mind his own business....then he wrote the ticket

    Never mentioned Insurance or the gun next to me.
    Lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I've never gotten a moving violation but I did get a ticket for a dead inspection the other day. He asked for license and registration which I gave him, then he asked where I was going and I told him to mind his own business....then he wrote the ticket

    Never mentioned Insurance or the gun next to me.
    My hero!

    I would be inclined to include a nice note with the check saying, "Please find enclosed a check in payment for my contempt-of-cop citation."

    Nap's situation is a little like being stopped for a burned out brake light. If the cop was really all that interested in safety, all he'd have to do is say, "Mr. Driver, your brake light is burned out. I need you to fix that by the day after tomorrow. I'm writing down your license number; and if I see its still burned out, I'm gonna have to write you a ticket." Similar for Nap. If the cop was all that interested in safety, he could give a similar warning. The contempt-of-cop angle is too easy to demonstrate.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    My hero!

    I would be inclined to include a nice note with the check saying, "Please find enclosed a check in payment for my contempt-of-cop citation."

    Nap's situation is a little like being stopped for a burned out brake light. If the cop was really all that interested in safety, all he'd have to do is say, "Mr. Driver, your brake light is burned out. I need you to fix that by the day after tomorrow. I'm writing down your license number; and if I see its still burned out, I'm gonna have to write you a ticket." Similar for Nap. If the cop was all that interested in safety, he could give a similar warning. The contempt-of-cop angle is too easy to demonstrate.
    I'm afraid it was just a little more involved

    He asked where I was going and I asked why he was interested. He said just curious.
    Then I said "When I get back to the office I'll have my secretary send you a memo when I figure it's any of your business"

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    Quote Originally Posted by R027 View Post
    http://www.pwcgov.org/government/dep...formation.aspx


    I have read that VA doesn't require you to inform unless asked to. Which is correct?
    There is nothing in the VA Code requiring one to inform a cop that you are armed at the outset of a police encounter or during a police encounter.

    Police are informed of it--its tied to your driver license so when the cop runs your driver license it comes up. My understand is that police insisted on this as part of shall-issue. So, they got it. They are informed. Tough for them if they want more.

    PWC's wish to be informed even more is just as absurd. A good guy with a gun isn't going to shoot a cop. A bad guy with a gun isn't going to volunteer that he has a gun.

    Volunteering the information, or replying yes if asked by the cop just gives cops the opportunity to seize the gun and run the serial number in a fishing expedition.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm afraid it was just a little more involved

    He asked where I was going and I asked why he was interested. He said just curious.
    Then I said "When I get back to the office I'll have my secretary send you a memo when I figure it's any of your business"
    roflmao!!

    Quit it! I can't breathe, I'm laughing so hard!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I've never gotten a moving violation but I did get a ticket for a dead inspection the other day. He asked for license and registration which I gave him, then he asked where I was going and I told him to mind his own business....then he wrote the ticket

    Never mentioned Insurance or the gun next to me.
    Sometimes co-operating helps. I was stopped speeding on 64 traveling west just off off of 295. I passed one of those dirt roads that connect the east and west bound lanes, where the state LEOs hang out and saw 4 VSP cars. I figured that they to busy yaking it up so I would be clear to speed. Then all of a sudden I saw the flashing lights in my rear view. I doing 95+. The LEO came up and said that I was speeding very fast and said that I had a clear record and then asked where I was headed in such a hurry. I said "Camp Peary" and he said "Have a nice day" and went back to his car. Now this is guess but I would think that if I said "mind your own business" I would have gotten a ticket...
    "Just because I'm paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me"
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    Regular Member jsfrederick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm afraid it was just a little more involved

    He asked where I was going and I asked why he was interested. He said just curious.
    Then I said "When I get back to the office I'll have my secretary send you a memo when I figure it's any of your business"
    Peter,

    I LOVE reading your stuff. You NEVER cease to entertain. And the best part? Having met you, I know EVERY word of it is true. Don't ever change.


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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    There is nothing in the VA Code requiring one to inform a cop that you are armed at the outset of a police encounter or during a police encounter.

    Police are informed of it--its tied to your driver license so when the cop runs your driver license it comes up. My understand is that police insisted on this as part of shall-issue. So, they got it. They are informed. Tough for them if they want more.
    JEEZE. Man why are you posting COMPLETELY misleading commentary? There is nothing in Va Code requiring one by law to EVER inform a cop you are armed, like to collect guns, wear underwear under your pants. Why mention it? Now if you have committed a crime, or he has RAS he can demand it, threaten incarceration on a whim, or a real articulable suspicion. It's wide open -LAC hunting season - open all year if you are wearing a badge.

    Police are informed of IT? What is IT? It's not information that you are armed. The VCIN has nothing listed about your firearms, your firearm purchases, where you like to carry your firearm. It's only got the PERMIT information on those Va Residents who were STUPID enough to put down their SS# on the form, were STUPID enough to listen to the clerks demanding WRONGLY that they needed a photo copy of your Va driver's license. I guarantee you that Bruce Jackson's info is in there but it's not from his Social or his Va Dr licenses, both of which he fought to keep private and won when the supervisor of the clerk ordered the clerk to process it. The clerk rejected the order the first time, but grudgingly threw the permit at Mr Jackson the second time.

    Just the PERMIT.

    1. A LEO can demand to SEE the permit. They can ASK to fondle your guns, to get you monologing about your guns.

    2. You do not have to even answer any questions a LEO asks for something like an expired sticker, minor speeding, broken lights, and if you left your gun at home you don't have to show, talk about, display your permit and you CERTAINLY NEVER -have- to show, display, surrender your firearms, though if the LEO wants to he can shoot you dead and then search your body.

    It's not legal, but it happens.

    I know YOU know this but it's all too easy to drop a vague comment, or obscure the object of the article, and have someone miss the point.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 01-26-2014 at 10:53 PM.

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