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Thread: Impressions of a gun show virgin - take #2

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Impressions of a gun show virgin - take #2

    My Sweet Baboo sent this to me this morn. This one line has me pegged...........
    Going to a gun show is like going to the humane society. There are so many guns that need good homes. You MUST leave with one.

    http://www.thewellarmedwoman.com/blo...how-virginHere

    Here are some simple impressions and a few questions from a gun show virgin:

    FUQ
    There are not too many women at gun shows.... Yet!

    I didn’t get strange looks for walking around with a gun on my hip.

    I did get curious looks for being a woman cruising the aisles.

    It is oddly comfortable and comforting being surrounded by guns, ammo and gun loving people!

    I have no difficulty believing the recent Gallop Poll that said 47% of homes in the US have a firearm. They were all at the show!

    You can wear ANYTHING you want to a gun show and I mean anything!

    Fully grown adult males actually will pin handwritten signs on scraps of paper on themselves!

    What are all those little parts filling the tiny bins on so many of the tables?

    Gun lovers are really nice and patient people.

    and more, go see the link
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The previous thread on this (1st post copied above) never got past the 2rd or 3rd post before it became a train wreck - ended up locking it.

    Reposted the OP here as a courtesy to MSG Laigaie.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-25-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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    Hmmm...they never let me carry (really carry, loaded and unzipped) at gun shows.

    My gun has to be empty and zip-tied, so I won't go.


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    <o>

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    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Definitely this:
    Buy your ammunition on your way out!

    Add this:
    Bring a notepad to keep tabs on ammo/parts/supplies prices and where they were for quicker backtrack.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Hmmm...they never let me carry (really carry, loaded and unzipped) at gun shows.

    My gun has to be empty and zip-tied, so I won't go.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    I know what you mean. The only positive I can see for the patrons is a possible reduction in the chance for a ND from "sweepers" and dummies (you know the type: they'll aim an empty gun right near your head and may even dry fire, then reply with "It's not even loaded" when you ask them to abstain).

    My gripe is the fact that the uniwrap goes through the magwell and slide of my 1911 (spur, not skeletonized, hammer), so I can't see how well the cheap mags fit.
    But the best reason to go is just to meet like-minded individuals and look at all the goodies. Since you can handle some of the guns, it's like a petting zoo, but funner.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    I know what you mean. The only positive I can see for the patrons is a possible reduction in the chance for a ND from "sweepers" and dummies (you know the type: they'll aim an empty gun right near your head and may even dry fire, then reply with "It's not even loaded" when you ask them to abstain).

    My gripe is the fact that the uniwrap goes through the magwell and slide of my 1911 (spur, not skeletonized, hammer), so I can't see how well the cheap mags fit.
    But the best reason to go is just to meet like-minded individuals and look at all the goodies. Since you can handle some of the guns, it's like a petting zoo, but funner.
    Many retail stores handle this very situation by zip-tying only those firearms that will be handled for repair, fitting a holster, etc. Firearms carried for self-defense and which will never leave the holster until defense is necessary are left in the holster, fully loaded, and ready to go, in the custody of the lawful carrier.

    Why can't gun shows do the same thing??


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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    If I have to be brutally honest, I would answer that the organization that rents the [building] for the show simply does not trust everyone to be safe while carrying. They may chalk it up to "insurance liability", but it is just code-speak for the same.
    But, some people aren't the safest around, so I can kind of see where they are coming from. Maybe if there was just a sign that said "Enter at your own risk"?

    In all seriousness though, Marksman Pistol Institute here in Tucson has two stores, and it seems they were staunch opponents of Constitutional Carry. They went so far as saying that they would now have to worry about just "any bubba" walking in with a gun. Have decided to forego patronizing either of their stores/ranges for that very reason.

    Even more recently, I had a somewhat unpleasant encounter at Caswells Shooting Range in Mesa: I was already done shooting, and I had reloaded and topped off my 1911 for carrying. I walked out, paid, and was looking around while waiting on someone when a small, older lady that worked there asked if my gun was loaded. I answered that yes, my gun was in Condidtion 1. She then said I couldn't be in the store with a loaded gun and instructed me (rather sternly) to go outside, remove the magazine, and clear the gun over their sand barrel. I tried to tell her that it would be unsafe for me to unnecessarily handle my gun, but she wouldn't have it. So I just waited outside rather than risk a ND.
    Not sure how I feel about that range anymore, seeing as I was already holstered appropriately and unnecessary handling of loaded guns is a safety no-no.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 01-25-2014 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Spelling
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Rusty:

    Cut the zip tie off.
    Do everything you need to do with the zip tie off.
    Ask for another zip tie.
    Replace zip tie.

    It doesn't have to be in that order, you can ask for more zip ties when you come in. I have never been to a gun show that didn't allow you to do this.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Rusty:

    Cut the zip tie off.
    Do everything you need to do with the zip tie off.
    Ask for another zip tie.
    Replace zip tie.

    It doesn't have to be in that order, you can ask for more zip ties when you come in. I have never been to a gun show that didn't allow you to do this.
    Thanks, 09jisaac. Something tells me I should have been able to think of that. Next time, then.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    My gripe is the fact that the uniwrap goes through the magwell and slide of my 1911 (spur, not skeletonized, hammer), so I can't see how well the cheap mags fit.
    But the best reason to go is just to meet like-minded individuals and look at all the goodies. Since you can handle some of the guns, it's like a petting zoo, but funner.

    At the shows I frequent, you can ask that it be placed through the barrel instead, since you're going to be fitting magazines, and most will oblige.

    (I've been known to carry zip ties in my car. I'll tie my own firearm, carefully placing the tie such that the rough, zippered edge is away from the tooth, enabling the tie to be removed and reused. I've still met the letter and spirit of the rule, and when the organizers see the tie, they don't ask further.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    It is amazing how some will get outraged by Starbucks, but since it's a gun show, it's OK to force you to disarm, just so the disarming does not interfere with fitting holsters/mags/grips/whathaveyou. :shakeshead:


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    <o>

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is amazing how some will get outraged by Starbucks, but since it's a gun show, it's OK to force you to disarm, just so the disarming does not interfere with fitting holsters/mags/grips/whathaveyou. :shakeshead:


    <o>
    I have the same thoughts.

    Every time someone brings up WAC (Washington Arms Collectors) a huge discussion of their disarming gets brought up. I don't go because they disarm.

    One strong supporter of WAC quit not to long ago because of their politics.....not their disarming.....

    I have gone with John to a few here and swallowed my distaste to disarm, because the local show has invited our OC group to have a booth, which I will say generated way more interest than the NRA booth, so much in so that the NRA guy spent most his time at our booth, not agreeing with OC......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is amazing how some will get outraged by Starbucks, but since it's a gun show, it's OK to force you to disarm, just so the disarming does not interfere with fitting holsters/mags/grips/whathaveyou. :shakeshead:


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    <o>
    I probably should have mentioned that the only reason I (grudgingly) disarmed (uni-wrapped) was because the shows have had armed security detail (sometimes cops, sometimes wannabe cops).
    So while Starbucks wants you unarmed but in no way offers any reasonable alternative to the defense of your person, the gun shows I've gone to had the consolation prize of a skeleton security crew. I agree, still an infringement and it is their Right (if the venue has been rented out and all), but different than the Starbucks situation.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I have the same thoughts.

    Every time someone brings up WAC (Washington Arms Collectors) a huge discussion of their disarming gets brought up. I don't go because they disarm.

    One strong supporter of WAC quit not to long ago because of their politics.....not their disarming.....

    I have gone with John to a few here and swallowed my distaste to disarm, because the local show has invited our OC group to have a booth, which I will say generated way more interest than the NRA booth, so much in so that the NRA guy spent most his time at our booth, not agreeing with OC......
    Excellent reason to attend. I do all of my lobbying outside of gun shows.

    Do you ask folks who stop by your table to lodge official bitches with the show because of that silly policy? I would.

    But, then, you know me; just because someone, something, or some site is pro-2A, it will not stop me from bitching at them when they behave in a way that warrants bitching.


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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    SNIP...I have gone with John to a few here and swallowed my distaste to disarm, because the local show has invited our OC group to have a booth, which I will say generated way more interest than the NRA booth, so much in so that the NRA guy spent most his time at our booth, not agreeing with OC......[Emphasis mine]
    That's sad. I think it could have something to do with who is usually responsible for the government permission slip certification process. You'd think that maybe they would try to bridge the gap between OCers and themselves to form a stronger front.

    Also, are there any shows which do not require you to disarm or "disable" the firearm in any way?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post

    But, then, you know me; just because someone, something, or some site is pro-2A, it will not stop me from bitching at them when they behave in a way that warrants bitching.


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    <o>
    Ya, I know you. You're the one that tries to pass off a full blown juvenile tantrum as "bitching".

    Like a five year old on a mission at "Toys "R" Else", you maraude the isles intent on achieving your desires by assaulting all present with your whining and threats to run away from home and vitriolic snits. And just as predictable as an indulged spoiled five year old. First the "I'll hold my breath 'til my face turns blue", then the hissy fit, stomping the floor, threats to run away from home and the clincher "I hate you Daddy" directed at the closest authority figure.

    Nothing a little trip out to the car or behind the shed wouldn't solve.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 01-26-2014 at 02:12 PM.
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    Impressions of a gun show virgin - take #2

    More emotional irrationality from a member of the cadre. Moving on.

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    <O>
    Last edited by eye95; 01-26-2014 at 02:15 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    At the shows I frequent, you can ask that it be placed through the barrel instead, since you're going to be fitting magazines, and most will oblige....
    I went to a local show yesterday with my Son. Victoria always puts the tie thru my barrel and releases the slide when handing it back. I put it right into the holster again. No worries.
    Another note..I like the Unloaded idea. Too many sloppy people and it would play hell with my "spidey senses" if any of them had a loaded weapon. Even with those rules in effect, a negligent discharge happens now and then.

    The NRA recruiter was just that, a paid recruiter. He was not fluent with his topic and struggled with trying to get his message across. Not as verbally armed as he could have been.





    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ..... ended up locking it........

    Reposted the OP here as a courtesy to MSG Laigaie.
    Thank you Sir.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 01-26-2014 at 02:33 PM. Reason: as usual, too fast and spelig
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is amazing how some will get outraged by Starbucks, but since it's a gun show, it's OK to force you to disarm, just so the disarming does not interfere with fitting holsters/mags/grips/whathaveyou. :shakeshead:


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    <o>
    I don't give Starbucks my business, but then at Starbucks there are not thousands of people handling firearms, not on a range, or any type of firing line. Because people bring guns to sell to gun shows it is not outrageous to expect them to be unloaded. Considering that literally hundreds of guns can be loaded in a very short period of time would negate most any thoughts of a attack at a show. In fact I have never heard of a assault, murder, rape, robbery at a gun show, but have heard of NDs at a few shows.

    So you can either bitch or just don't go. But if you go and make one of your usual scenes don't be surprised when you are shown the door.
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    So because others (even many others) are sloppy, it is reasonable for the gun show to deny me the ability to defend myself when I shop there. I recognize that it is their right, and I won't deny it to them, but I just won't shop in stores that disarm me--including gun shows.

    BTW, have you noticed all the shootings at Bass Pro Shops and stores like that which allow carry, even by sloppy people, as long as they will not be handling the gun, but merely keeping it holstered for self-defense. Oh, wait, it doesn't happen.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    So because others (even many others) are sloppy, it is reasonable for the gun show to deny me the ability to defend myself when I shop there. I recognize that it is their right, and I won't deny it to them, but I just won't shop in stores that disarm me--including gun shows.

    BTW, have you noticed all the shootings at Bass Pro Shops and stores like that which allow carry, even by sloppy people, as long as they will not be handling the gun, but merely keeping it holstered for self-defense. Oh, wait, it doesn't happen.
    They can tell you to wear a face mask during flu season if they so choose. Their playground, nobody forces you to play there.
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post

    So you can either bitch or just don't go. But if you go and make one of your usual scenes don't be surprised when you are shown the door.
    He throws conniption fits like he does here in public under the auspices of "promoting open carry"?
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  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    tis because of these types of individuals who attend firearm/knife shows:

    While this occurred a little over a year ago at the Raleigh NC gun show: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...90I0L920130119
    Three people including a retired sheriff's deputy were wounded on Saturday at a gun show in North Carolina when a 12-gauge shotgun accidentally discharged as its owner was taking it out of its case, state officials said.

    show sponsors stated:
    The North Carolina gun show will go ahead as planned on Sunday, but no private gun sales will be allowed and personal guns will not be allowed on the property.

    solves the problem of unloaded patron firearms huh...they didn't allow any personal firearms on the PROPERTY!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 01-26-2014 at 06:04 PM.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think I'd rather find some other way to make the event safer. How about just saying that any upholstered firearm must be zip-tied, instead of all firearms period? Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing? Or have some sort of quick safety qualification (quick verbal test) in order to carry a self-defense weapon at the show. Even make them sign a form contractually obligating them to keep any loaded weapon holstered. Just throwing out ideas. I think there's a way to accomplish safety without disarming folks. If there isn't, the entire open carry movement is a lie. IMO, it sounds like gun show organizers just aren't thinking or trying hard enough, and are resorting to the default, easiest, most knee-jerk, emotionally comforting (to the less-informed), and least thought-through method of safety which we as open carry advocates ought to know doesn't work - disarm everyone.

    I will not go to a gun show that doesn't allow me to carry my self-defense weapon. IMO, that's just asinine. Sounds like a butter-fest. I'll pass.

    To the OP: I'm a little surprised that women at the gun show would be such an uncommon sight that you'd get looks. Maybe depends on the part of the country that you're in. I think that the only gun shows I've been to, which may only be one or two actually, I don't remember there being an obvious disproportion of gender.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 01-26-2014 at 11:56 PM.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    When you look at a situation, be it allowing rights, allowing abilities, enforcing same, it can be done in a lot of ways, many of them only giving the illusion of 'solved!'.

    What is 'good' for the individual, what is 'expected behavior of adults' works in small groups. But beyond a certain size (large gun shows), or below a certain size (having a "gun show" (i.e. Craig's list) in your home) then dangers crop up.

    So you do an analysis, you look at the past, you apply your bias (unfortunately), you try to give rational reasons or you just mandate.

    In gun shows, some are good, some are bad, some people are sloppy handlers, and once in a great while you have NDs.

    Very few gun shows have metal detectors - it's almost humorous to imagine - it would take forever. So they 'ask' and if you lie, you can be booted, but AFAIK, not arrested. You can't be searched, AFAIK.

    And yet people buy firearms, they buy ammo and they are still inside the show. Could they take their purchases into a bathroom stall and load up? OF COURSE. But as some posters said, we've never had an attempt of a mass shooting at a GS.

    I HOPE some (person) doesn't decide to sacrifice themselves to bring 'attention' to GC by shooting up a show (and getting shot, and lots of other people injured in collateral damage). If it does in just ONE SHOW, it could mean the end of them, in this climate.

    So, your left with informing yourself, looking at commentary which is HIGHLY IDEALISTIC, and making a personal decision. Bear in mind you can't really convince people. You can give what you think are 'facts', but in the end change comes from within, and it's not always based on logic or information. It's a bias.

    Good thread.

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