Don't be this guy

Fuller Malarkey said:

I'm fine, thanks. I'm always up for conversation. Lead off.

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Sure thing. To answer your question I have only open carried on hiking trails because I haven't worked up the nerve to do it while going about my daily activities yet. I'm not scared of the police but for some reason I'm overly concerned about what others in downtown seattle would think. I'm not confident enough yet to discuss open carry with people I meet on the streets or law enforcement. I don't care for confrontation with the law. I just get agitated when I speak to the police so I'd prefer to stay away. I'm working up the courage though. Slowly but surely.

I certainly acknowledge that what the OC'er was doing was completely legal and within his right. I didn't really see anything in that video to indicate that they were at all interested in him. No confrontation except for the cop that asked how he was doing that day. Also, he pointed to cars in a nearby parking lot and claimed they were unmarked police vehicles. From my perspective I saw no ambush waiting for him just around the corner. All I saw was a guy geared up for no particular reason other than to become a YouTube star. I just think it's funny how he was all riled up and ready for a confrontation and nobody said jack.

In my very humble opinion I don't see how his actions helped the cause at all. I'm not saying I am either, but there's a difference between open carrying on a trail and carrying three firearms and a ninja staff on you while walking down the street and recording.

His actions and attitudes were, admittedly, a bit 'over the top.' But there is a psychological basis for it; people rehearse for what they expect to encounter, or what they may encounter. We (well, ahem, some of us) have conversations in our heads about what we'd say if ____, or if someone says _____.

Anybody who's acted, or been in sales, or debated has practiced, role played, rehearsed. Officers, by and large like to 'be in charge of the situation' and that rubs some personalities the wrong way; not everyone is a lamb.

sudden valley gunner said:

Old video. This one ended up as a non copfrontation.

If I remember right these actions in this video were done because of previous copfrontations.

Monroe is smaller town were I doubt carrying guns raises too much alarm.

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Yes that is me. It was partly to "test the waters" while I was living in that area.

None of the times while I carried the AR15 did I get more than a questioning.

One time when I did not carry it, I got arrested.

bebop4one said:

Hi Falls, I certainly understand what you're saying. And you're right, maybe I should rephrase that. Agendas are a good thing in general. I just wonder if in this case the intent to have a confrontation with police is going above and beyond. The guy obviously has balls whereas I admittedly haven't OC'd anywhere yet but hiking trails. I'm not questioning his right to do what he's doing. Maybe it's the shaky camera, the overall negative attitude, the paranoia concerning "ambushes", and the intent of having a confrontation that rubs me the wrong way. This isn't normalizing open carry.

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If you only saw the RTKA issue at stake then, sir, you are blind.

I have had dealings with the police in the area before and I had/have no trust in them.
Yes, I was carrying the AR15 that day to make multiple points. I was also meeting a member of OCDO for coffee and I had asked ahead of time to know if I was supposed to carry the same way I did in the first video, because that is why he had contacted me in the first place.

Also, I wanted answers to some questions. The best way to obtain those answers is to run a test.
1. If you don't have a car, how would you get a rifle home?
2. If you're not breaking the law, what are the odds that the police/911 dispatcher will not tell people that it's not illegal?
3. Would the police waste the time and resources to follow a LAC around?
4. Are the roads setup to be safe for all legal modes of travel? (the right to travel issue...)
etc.

On a side note, I was arrested at later date while I was not carrying either the walking staff or the AR15, along the same road, around the same time of day. I had thought that this, non-confrontation, had solidified that the police would no longer stop and harass me for OC, so I did not have the camera that day.:banghead:

Edit:
I met the member before I read the rules and started posting here. Before that this was just an info forum I had created an account with just to keep tabs of threads I had read and then forgot about it for awhile.

Well Freesom1man if anything you're a good sport. I was just reading your restaurant thread too. Small community I guess.
Take this post with a grain of salt, though. You've practiced this right more than I ever have so I'm by no means an expert on the matter.

bebop4one said:

Sure thing. To answer your question I have only open carried on hiking trails because I haven't worked up the nerve to do it while going about my daily activities yet. I'm not scared of the police but for some reason I'm overly concerned about what others in downtown seattle would think. I'm not confident enough yet to discuss open carry with people I meet on the streets or law enforcement. I don't care for confrontation with the law. I just get agitated when I speak to the police so I'd prefer to stay away. I'm working up the courage though. Slowly but surely.

I certainly acknowledge that what the OC'er was doing was completely legal and within his right. I didn't really see anything in that video to indicate that they were at all interested in him. No confrontation except for the cop that asked how he was doing that day. Also, he pointed to cars in a nearby parking lot and claimed they were unmarked police vehicles. From my perspective I saw no ambush waiting for him just around the corner. All I saw was a guy geared up for no particular reason other than to become a YouTube star. I just think it's funny how he was all riled up and ready for a confrontation and nobody said jack.

In my very humble opinion I don't see how his actions helped the cause at all. I'm not saying I am either, but there's a difference between open carrying on a trail and carrying three firearms and a ninja staff on you while walking down the street and recording.

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I suspect that there is some history between that open carry advocate, the police and that particular town that preceded this video. I also believe it would be a poorly presented obtuse act to believe that many police squad cars were positioned around that particular open carry advocate by accident. Presence can be a form of intimidation. How many AR rifles were at the ready during this walk? Paranoia? Would wildlife not avoid a water source that had that many predators at the wait? Isn't that a form of intimidation? Maybe you have better insights than I into the human psyche.

Personally, I've had enough of altering my life to avoid opinion enforcing cops. If riding a camel is legal and my desire to do so, I would be more than offended if an armed force of government sanctioned thugs showed up to intimidate me into abandon my rights to travel by camel with non-verbal threats to my life and or liberty. Yet some find that thug cop behavior perfectly acceptable when someone exercises their 2A rights. Not talking about engaging in unnatural sex acts with barn yard animals at 4th and Main. The open carry advocate was over the top. He also had to feel like a black man with a bulls-eye target on his back walking through a white supremacist convention.

There's been discussions here about baiting. I'm of the school that thinks you can't bait an honest citizen into stealing a car with the keys in it. An honest person is guided by their morals and awareness of consequences. I believe the same holds true for police. A citizen engaged in lawful activity should have nothing to fear of police, and an honest policeman can't be baited into violating a citizen because of their morals and awareness of consequences. But cops put out bait cars because there are unscrupulous citizens, and open carriers do the rights walk because there are unscrupulous cops. There is some differing opinion as to what percent the unscrupulous represent. Most police treat citizens like they potential car thieves, and most citizens view police as potential violent predators.

ETA: I see Freedom1Man has posted since I began this post and finally got back to posting it. And it looks like they who came to scoff have backed off the "Don't be this guy" once a little more was made known.

bebop4one said:

Sure thing. To answer your question I have only open carried on hiking trails because I haven't worked up the nerve to do it while going about my daily activities yet. I'm not scared of the police but for some reason I'm overly concerned about what others in downtown seattle would think. I'm not confident enough yet to discuss open carry with people I meet on the streets or law enforcement. I don't care for confrontation with the law. I just get agitated when I speak to the police so I'd prefer to stay away. I'm working up the courage though. Slowly but surely.

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I'll offer up some advice, more like an anecdote of sorts, about how I began to OC.
I was also afraid of what might happen when walking down the street or the like, not to mention what my family, and my friends, would say/think. It can be a nerve wracking experience, and I still remember my hands shaking a bit as I put on my (then new) holster and slid my 1911 into it, ready to walk out the door into the world, OCing outside for the first time. What helped me was that while I didn't try to memorize EVERY law or SCOTUS case, I did keep a few references fresh in my mind (Warren V District of Columbia, AZ law, and some others). I'd rehearsed these things in my mind, and because I had explained it so many times to my parents and siblings, I actually had a better grasp than I thought. Also, teaching someone about it gave me confidence in my understanding of OC and some relevant case law.
You don't have to be witty or clever or be a great orator when dealing with others; Hollywood makes it seem so, but it isn't. Just find an honest, simple phrase or two you're comfortable with repeating to people who ask you why youOC (like, "Because I love my life and family").

bebop4one said:

I certainly acknowledge that what the OC'er was doing was completely legal and within his right. I didn't really see anything in that video to indicate that they were at all interested in him. No confrontation except for the cop that asked how he was doing that day. Also, he pointed to cars in a nearby parking lot and claimed they were unmarked police vehicles. From my perspective I saw no ambush waiting for him just around the corner. All I saw was a guy geared up for no particular reason other than to become a YouTube star. I just think it's funny how he was all riled up and ready for a confrontation and nobody said jack.

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This could be due to some form of normalization effect he and others may have had. I'll explain: maybe having all these leftist hoplophobes believe LGOCers are just looking for attention is slowly making them see it as a form of expression instead of only a person walking to the next Criminal Empowerment Zone to get his 15 weeks of fame. From expression to tolerance may be a smaller leap in their (highly convoluted and illogical) minds than never seeing one except on tv and then suddenly realizing it doesn't just randomly maul people of its own accord.

bebop4one said:

In my very humble opinion I don't see how his actions helped the cause at all. I'm not saying I am either, but there's a difference between open carrying on a trail and carrying three firearms and a ninja staff on you while walking down the street and recording.

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While LGOC is not the mission of this forum, I contend it may leave a greater impression on an anti or an uninformed LAC to see a LGOCer walk around without the rifle suddenly mauling everyone in the vicinity than to see an OCer do the same. After all, the media tells them those guns just kill at random, viciously killing babies and injuring puppies left and right.
If nothing else, it makes the rest of us OCers look even more normal ("it's relative" to quote a friend of mine).

bebop4one said:

Well Freesom1man if anything you're a good sport. I was just reading your restaurant thread too. Small community I guess.
Take this post with a grain of salt, though. You've practiced this right more than I ever have so I'm by no means an expert on the matter.

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I see that you're in Seattle, I would be willing to make time to meet up with you around Pike Place Market one day.

Let me check my list of herbs that I would need to pick up.

Freedom1Man said:

I see that you're in Seattle, I would be willing to make time to meet up with you around Pike Place Market one day.

Let me check my list of herbs that I would need to pick up.

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Wow, you're a class act (not being sarcastic)! I'd be totally pissed if someone called out my video like that. Well I'll take you up on that offer. I need that push to get out the door and just do it. Let's figure out a time to meet up. Maybe we can get a little group going.

What a great forum.


I predict this will "make" Primus mace and tase his neighbors cat. We "make" some police "do" things, ya know. "Specially when we just won't "get it". :lol:

Fuller Malarkey said:

What a great forum.


I predict this will "make" Primus mace and tase his neighbors cat. We "make" some police "do" things, ya know. "Specially when we just won't "get it". :lol:

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Lol slow night in your parents basement?

I take offense to that. I like cats.

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Primus said:

Lol slow night in your parents basement?

I take offense to that. I like cats.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

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Yeppers, slow night, but it looks like it might get better....

Fuller Malarkey said:

Yeppers, slow night, but it looks like it might get better....

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Lol I see what you did there. I hope it does get better. Let us know how you make out with it.

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Freedom1Man said:

Yes that is me. It was partly to "test the waters" while I was living in that area.

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I saw the video just now in YT and I made sure to post a response to it.

Logan 5 said:

I saw the video just now in YT and I made sure to post a response to it.

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Same handle you use here?

bebop4one said:

Wow, you're a class act (not being sarcastic)! I'd be totally pissed if someone called out my video like that. Well I'll take you up on that offer. I need that push to get out the door and just do it. Let's figure out a time to meet up. Maybe we can get a little group going.

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I'll PM you.

But, why should I get upset? The video is old, there is a story behind it that is not being told on a public forum. Also, it is easy to blast someone on line that you've never met.

bebop4one the most effective way to get over your fear of others response to OC is just to OC.

Take up the offer to OC with someone or go to an OC meet you will see it really isn't that big of a deal.

I OC when I am in Seattle and have had no issues.

That video's been around for a while. Nothing impressive.
OC of long guns I believe to be counter-productive. The argument that you SHOULD do it because you have a right is close to (but not quite the same as) arguing that picketing across the street from a middle school with a sign that says "12 is old enough" is protected speech, and if we don't use our right to free speech, we lose it, so anyone who criticizes or violently assaults the creep with the sign is working against our rights.

The weed smoking and sit-ins actually worked. The LG OC lost us Starbucks. Keep some perspective.

509rifas said:

That video's been around for a while. Nothing impressive.
OC of long guns I believe to be counter-productive. The argument that you SHOULD do it because you have a right is close to (but not quite the same as) arguing that picketing across the street from a middle school with a sign that says "12 is old enough" is protected speech, and if we don't use our right to free speech, we lose it, so anyone who criticizes or violently assaults the creep with the sign is working against our rights.

The weed smoking and sit-ins actually worked. The LG OC lost us Starbucks. Keep some perspective.

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LGOC in starbucks was pointed out more by us than Starbucks, Howard is just a bigot and grasped at an excuse to be a bigot.

Freedom1Man said:

On a side note, I was arrested at later date while I was not carrying either the walking staff or the AR15, along the same road, around the same time of day. I had thought that this, non-confrontation, had solidified that the police would no longer stop and harass me for OC, so I did not have the camera that day.:banghead:

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If you don't mind me asking, why? I recently moved to the area and am just curious what the local LEO's are like.

Thanks,

Mike333 said:

If you don't mind me asking, why? I recently moved to the area and am just curious what the local LEO's are like.

Thanks,

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I was arrested for open carry.