DocWalker
Regular Member
I know this question isn't directed to me but.
I would have said ok and left; then wrote a complaint to Starbucks corp. about my treatment. This goes against their policy to serve OCers even if they do't want to.
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Just got told by a patron at Starbucks that I should leave...while in uniform.
- Thread starter sempercarry
- Start date
I know this question isn't directed to me but.
I would have said ok and left; then wrote a complaint to Starbucks corp. about my treatment. This goes against their policy to serve OCers even if they do't want to.
DocWalker
Regular Member
Can you please cite were you clipped you CEO quote from. This is not what was released priviously by Starbucks concerning the carry of weapons and being served.
DocWalker
Regular Member
Here is a cite from the CEO of STARBUCKS and the LINK to BACK IT UP.
"Schultz underscored that Starbucks' new policy is not a ban - employees will continue to serve patrons with guns. The request also does not apply to authorized law enforcement personnel."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/18/starbucks-guns-policy_n_3945390.html
DocWalker
Regular Member
Thank you for the cite, NOTICE the convient cut of the next paragraph by the person "clipping" the quote...lol
You have to love people with an agenda that will twist and clip things to try and prove that their right and your wrong.....IT ISN'T A BAN....PERIOD.
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
I haven't reviewed anything that indicates Primus advocates for peon class sheep to carry anything other than adoration for those who keep us safe and sound.
FreeInAZ
Regular Member
I didn't say it was a ban. I said it was a request, included the relevant language, and indicated that Starbuck's is free to make requests...and I recommended that the OP not ignore kind requests.
If you're trying to get the OC message across, the least you can do is is respect the wishes of landowners you come across or you lose the moral high ground and diminish the message. As it stands, ignoring Starbuck's request regarding customer conduct will lead to signs being posted...and those signs will be accorded force of law and you'll see trespassing charges.
Another thing...if Starbuck's has legal counsel worth their salt they would never in any way encourage their low-wage workers to confront armed patrons over this policy...the potential liability to the company arising from a mandate to order armed patrons off the property (however unlikely to result in actual injury) is something that no risk manager in their right mind would recommend. In other words, Starbuck's could only issue this non-policy-policy...or post signs. You better belive the signs are on the way.
You're trying to cross a bridge-too-far...you simply don't get to carry in Starbuck's without disregarding their clear public request. How you think this is in any way acceptable behavior is beyond my comprehension. What other kinds of behavior do you impose on others against their requests when you visit their establishments?
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OC for ME
Regular Member
You are not capable of reading my post or refuse to understand what I stated.
Read my post again and you may understand the point of my post. If you fail to understand the point please let me know and I will dumb it down for you.
DocWalker
Regular Member
Sorry I was giving your post much more cerebral thought than you were putting out. It isn't that you have to dumb it down for me but I have to bring my comprehension level down to your level to understand what you meant. I took it that you meant it was a ban or illegal to carry in a Starbucks by your post and your clips. I actually thanked you for posting the whole letter and not just what some people wanted to see in one sentence.
DocWalker
Regular Member
1. We actually agree not to go to Starbuck (coffee sucks, is over priced, and their trying to pander to both sides of the gun issue)
2. I don't feel signs will come for the simple fact if someone does shoot up a starbucks they would lose millions from victims saying they were not protected by the buisness that took their ability to protect themselves away ,if they had a sign. This way they can play both sides of the fence again by saying they could carry it wasn't a ban. Starbucks is smart with their liability by doing this, it will be harder to get a large settlement or lawsuit if you had the capability to protect yourself but didn't as apposed to them taking full responsiablity for your safety by putting up a "gun free zone" sign. It has worked so well for schools...sarcasm.
3. A request is just than a requests. If they put up a sign or tell me to leave I will. If I request you go jump off a bridge I don't expect you would actually do it, but if I "tell' you to go jump of a bridge that would be another story. You are getting the term request confused with ban, there is a difference.
4. You also have the alarmist attitude about OCer. If someone is OCing they must be a criminal and someone that is unapprochable, I disagree with the antis and you that this is fact. I know most people on this web site are very approachable and would love to talk to anyone about OC and will be polite and respectfull. Pushing the panic button because someone is said something (1A) or they are wearing a shirt that says something you disagree with (1A) doesn't mean they should be banned or draged from a buisness unless the buisness says so and they specificly said they "ARE NOT BANNING GUNS". I personnally will respect their request but I won't force anyone else to either.
sempercarry
Regular Member
Holy replies. Been busy....some more. I will try to respond to the stuff I saw. Some people are just reading to much into this. I go into Starbucks before just about ever shift. Have been for a good long while. Just want my coffee (my one vice had to be a 4 dollar cup of coffee...GRRR.) and it is not smart to trap yourself in a drivethrough so I go inside. If the barista asked me to leave I would have politely asked for my money back and told her and the patron to have a good night. I would not write a complaint. As I read the release, it was a request and they would still serve. I understand the CEOs reasons for writing the policy and I respect his position and the fact that he seems to want to please both crowds. Been going in for my preshift coffee for a while and never had any issues with patrons or baristas seeming uncomfortable. If anything, they are more friendly when in uniform. I'm not doing anything against the policy of my employer. Just as I wont friend him/accept a friend request from my boss, I don't want him snooping around my internet activities. It is a matter of privacy and professionalism.They already knows about the incident anyway. The last jab at University Placites...Placians? Placans?...was just for fun. Besides, they are cotton headed ninny muggins, not ninnies.
1. Only as a last resort...I prefer independent shops.
2. Starbuck's will not lose millions from their no-gun policy, ever, under any circumstances, period, end of discussion. You voluntarily disarming and showing up at Starbuck's means you consent to whatever meteor-strike possibility there is that you will be victimized. By your rationale, every persona harmed in a GFZ shooting has a legal claim against the GFZ landowner. Good luck winning that legal claim. Quite simply, and in most jurisdictions, a business is required to provide a reasonably safe environment for its invitees and is allowed notice/opportunity to correct dangerous situations (spilled water on the floor, icy parking lots, etc.). Most shootings don't happen with any sort of notice and businesses aren't required to ensure (or insure) against every imaginable risk...and they certainly aren't required to cover you because some crazy person shoots up their store. The lawsuits happen, and they get dismissed.
3. There are different kinds of requests and there are different relationships between requestor/requestee and there are different contexts in which these requests are made/granted. Your example is, to put it bluntly, irrelevant and stupid. Starbuck's has every right to post a code of conduct, or ask that its business invitees refrain from bringing dangerous items into their stores...yes...guns are dangerous items. Starbucks has had murders take place in their stores, and they still haven't said "hey citizens, bring your guns because it makes us safer." Are you suggesting that you carry your sidearm to keep strangers safe? I think that's a bit of a stretch and I don't know why on earth you would extend the benefit of your personal sidearm to protect strangers from bad people...that's a moral issue and quite charitable of you...but you'll lose your life savings defending lawsuits brought by people accidentally harmed (or properly harmed) by your actions and I suggest you give it more thought.
4. I don't think OC'ers are bad people or more dangerous...but Starbuck's has to have a company policy that applies to everyone in every situation and they can't take the chance of things going sideways. You're making a logical mistake in thinking that everyone is exactly like you...Starbuck's can afford to be wrong, especially when it's cheaper (from a risk standpoint) for them to encourage their employees to be non-confrontational. Believe me, Starbuck's employer/employee relationship has FAR more liability attached when a dead employee's family sues saying the store policy forced their loved one to confront an armed patron who turned out to be a nutjob...confrontations are for the police and should be left that way.
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, but I suggest you take a serious look at why you carry and for whom you carry. Unless you're LEO, you're gonna be in a world of hurt if you pull the trigger...and that's the BEST case scenario. You may escape with your life, but your career will be in tatters and the lawsuits will come on strong. Consider who you want to endure THAT kind of pain to protect. This is way off topic but worth some thought.
Bottom line, respect requests lest they become bans/signs/laws. Open your own shop and post "guns welcome" signs...but don't disregard Starbuck's request simply because they tried to split the difference or said "it's not a ban." You better believe that in your trespassing case a judge won't look favorably when you respond "yeah your honor but they didn't SAY BAN!"
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JamesCanby
Activist Member
In order for there to be a trespassing case you would have to refuse to leave the premises after a store manager or employee has told you to leave. Since their policy indicates that open carriers will be served regardless of their request that no firearms be carried into the store, there will not be a trespassing incident.
DocWalker
Regular Member
As someone who was a victim of a mass shooting I call hogwash, the US military bent over backwards for everyone closely involved with the shooting to avoid lawsuits and such and this is the US military (goverment agency that is amune to lawsuits). Why you ask? Plain and simple BAD PRESS. Do you really thing the movie theater (GFZ) has not settled any pending lawsuits for big bucks. Get real, even if you give up your rights to get a cup of JO they still have to give you a level of protection. They can't say mass shooting are rare according to the lefts position not mine.
I carry for protection of myself and family, my pistol will not come out of its holster unless I'm prepared to use it. Suggesting I'm a nutjob or my motive for carrying are less than above board does nothing for your argument.
I spent 23 years in the military, and then worked as a corrections officer for a few years before getting back into the medical field. My motives are for protection, and you are only "TRESSPASSING" if they ask you to leave and don't.....
I think I'm done banging my head against this wall. Good luck with your selective protection, I personally don't like roulette. I tried it and barely came out alive.
Maverick9
Regular Member
So, or what, you're shooting out his tires with your tiny toll booth firearm?
Relax, it's only six bits.
Maverick9
Regular Member
Cite?
AFAIK, not every jurisdiction requires a manager to 'say' don't come in. It depends. Are you sure you can't be charged a priori?
IANAL, though I know a Latin phrase, or two.http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.080
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Primus
Regular Member
Yes. I go pew pew pew. Don't hate on my toll booth firearm.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
OC for ME
Regular Member
I try not to be too cerebral in my posts.
I cannot take credit for the entire letter, Nightmare deserves your thanks. I merely used the singular point of the CEO's letter to bolster my point.
No harm no foul.
+1 to you Sir.
EtdBob
Regular Member
So I unexpectedly went to Starbucks recently, when my wife showed up where I work and invited me to hop across the street and get a cuppa at Starbucks.
We’re actually tea drinkers but a friend gave my wife a Starbucks gift card.
Anyway, who can turn down an invite from a beautiful woman to go get a cuppa coffee? I had to go.
Only problem was I was kinda conspicuously armed that day, with a .44 thumbuster in a copy of the Dukes rig that I had a BW leather make up for me. The rig and gun at the top of the photo-
I also had a rather large knife balancing the gun on my left hip. Now I wasn't trying to make a statement or stand out in the crowd, I just like my cowboy rigs and think they are the best way to carry a hogleg.
I had heard a bit of the hoopla about guns and Starbucks thanks to this web site, and was kinda wondering what my reception at the coffee shop might be.
Got a few looks from some of the coffee slurppers settin' around the joint, but none of the employees cared a bit and cheerfully chatted with us for some time, even asked us to try a taste test.
Anyone else dare to enter that establishment openly heeled lately?
We’re actually tea drinkers but a friend gave my wife a Starbucks gift card.
Anyway, who can turn down an invite from a beautiful woman to go get a cuppa coffee? I had to go.
Only problem was I was kinda conspicuously armed that day, with a .44 thumbuster in a copy of the Dukes rig that I had a BW leather make up for me. The rig and gun at the top of the photo-
I also had a rather large knife balancing the gun on my left hip. Now I wasn't trying to make a statement or stand out in the crowd, I just like my cowboy rigs and think they are the best way to carry a hogleg.
I had heard a bit of the hoopla about guns and Starbucks thanks to this web site, and was kinda wondering what my reception at the coffee shop might be.
Got a few looks from some of the coffee slurppers settin' around the joint, but none of the employees cared a bit and cheerfully chatted with us for some time, even asked us to try a taste test.
Anyone else dare to enter that establishment openly heeled lately?
Attachments
Maverick9
Regular Member
Wanted: Interesting armed person to go have coffee with. Please send SASE and picture...of your firearms.