Quick question.

7om5hipp · Jan 28, 2014

First off let me say that I am only asking this because it will be part of my halloween costume for this year, and I like to plan ahead so that I can get everything I will need in advance and save me a headache in the long run. Now I understand that talking about long gun carry is against the rules in a state where handgun carry is allowed, but I am only bringing it up so that I know what I can and can not do for halloween.

I am planning on going as a WW2 Russian soldier, I own a Nagant revolver and a Mosin nagant rifle so I figured it would be the perfect thing. But I do not know if I can carry the rifle with me, I don't intend to carry a rifle any other time except for that night and my Nagant is my only carry weapon for any other day. Now I have tried looking around myself, but I can't find any info and so I figured that if anyone would know it would be the people on here.

If my post is still breaking the rule I don't have a problem deleting it, I just am stumped is all.

OC for ME · Jan 29, 2014

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000030.HTM

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c000-099/0210000750.htm

There may be a local code that prohibits the OC of your pistol & rifle based on the jurisdiction. If you have a CCW endorsement some jurisdictions "permit" the OC of a firearm.

Given the context of your post I think that you are not discussing the OC of a LG as defined by the forum rules. But, I am not the final arbiter.

The statutes provided above are the ones that local governments use to infringe upon your right to OC a firearm.

Check the/your local codes.

If a cop sees you dressed as a Ruskie soldier they may check your firearms to determine their "realness." The rifle, in my humble opinion, should remain unloaded. A cop may give you a pass on the unloaded rifle because a rifle without ammo (no ammo on your person, or your friends person, could be considered "readily available) is functionally nonfunctional under RSMo 571.030 and local codes (I hope, local codes are notoriously out of date in may jurisdictions) and thus not a violation of state or local law.

If the pistol is your daily carry it will likely be loaded. Thus you will be subject to the OC of a firearm laws if any exist in the trick-or-treat jurisdiction.

Good luck and welcome to OCDO.

Oramac · Jan 29, 2014

In all honesty, I would very strongly recommend against carrying the real thing for 2 reasons:

1) Should the SAPA pass, long gun OC will be illegal. This was a compromise that had to be made so that statewide pistol OC can pass. It does no good to be upset about it for one day of the year.

2) Should SAPA not pass (god forbid), someone OCing a rifle is extremely likely to make passage in the next session extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Short version: as much as I wish I could wholeheartedly endorse carrying the real thing, it is an extremely bad idea.

OC for ME · Jan 29, 2014

He will not be OCing a LG. In his op he clearly states such. The rifle will a component of his costume for Halloween. If the rifle is unloaded and ammo is not readily available, under current law, he does not violate the statute. If the SAPA gets passed, who knows. But, my reading of the proposed bill does not indicate that 571.030 will change if the rifle (firearm) is unloaded and no ammo.

To amke any LEO interaction go "smoothly" a unloaded rifle will satisfy curious LEOs and they will be on their way post haste. The pistol, different issue.

Oramac · Jan 29, 2014

OC for ME said:
To amke any LEO interaction go "smoothly" a unloaded rifle will satisfy curious LEOs and they will be on their way post haste.

You sure about that? I'm not. Too many power hungry cops out there who don't give a rip and don't know the law.

(No offense intended to those few awesome cops who DO know the law and aren't power hungry!)

OC for ME · Jan 30, 2014

Am I sure? No, nothing is guaranteed. A cop who does not know the law and hassles the OP would be at great risk for a rights violation if the OP follows the law. The vast majority of cops would simply ask if the rifle is unloaded, if they ask at all, get a response to the affirmative and move on. The pistol may require more interaction, most cops don't hassle folks for OC where OC is not prohibited.....in my limited experience, that is.

7om5hipp · Jan 30, 2014

Yeah, was not planning on having the rifle loaded since it is not my carry weapon. As for hassle, the cops in my town don't hassle me that much. Now they do drive past me a lot when I am outside, and I have had my car followed a few times through town. Lol. At least I know that if something happens the police are close at hand...Lol.

bigb360 · Feb 5, 2014

Oramac said:
In all honesty, I would very strongly recommend against carrying the real thing for 2 reasons:

1) Should the SAPA pass, long gun OC will be illegal. This was a compromise that had to be made so that statewide pistol OC can pass. It does no good to be upset about it for one day of the year.

2) Should SAPA not pass (god forbid), someone OCing a rifle is extremely likely to make passage in the next session extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Short version: as much as I wish I could wholeheartedly endorse carrying the real thing, it is an extremely bad idea.

Whoa whoa whoa. I had no idea this was part of the deal. 2nd amendment protection my ass. If this is what we're advocating I want no part. What if I walk from my house to my car with my rifle i can be cited? I don't want to go backwards here.

This weakened version of the sapa not only won't really help most of Missourians (since only a few municipalities ban oc) but it sounds like it's going to end up hurting all of us.

Not worth it.

OC for ME · Feb 6, 2014

bigb360 said:
Whoa whoa whoa. I had no idea this was part of the deal. 2nd amendment protection my ass. If this is what we're advocating I want no part. What if I walk from my house to my car with my rifle i can be cited? I don't want to go backwards here.

This weakened version of the sapa not only won't really help most of Missourians (since only a few municipalities ban oc) but it sounds like it's going to end up hurting all of us.

Not worth it.

Your concern is valid. However there is little evidence to suggest that more political subdivisions will ban OC w/o a endorsement. There is evidence that most political subdivision will do nothing because they have not banned OC these many years via RSMo 21.750.3. The SAPA is clearly aimed at the feds and the OC with a endorsement provision is included to "permit" OC in those few political subdivision who do use RSMo 21.750.3. I could be wrong and more place will ban OC w/o a endorsement but I do not think this to be a real concern. For example, Wentzville permits OC with a endorsement, has so for a few years now. We shall see.

While I disagree with the premise, permission, it will mitigate negative encounters with LE in the few places that ban OC now. Of course, negative encounters with LE can and do happen where OC is not banned and these encounters may continue. OCing is little noticed as it is now by our fellow citizens and a minor increase in their exposure to OC is a good thing.

My only concern is that local top cops (anti-liberty top cops) will enact department policies that "hassle" OCers in those places that banned OC. There will be nothing the OCer can do about it and must comply with the law. Be prepared and record record record.

OC for ME · Feb 6, 2014

OC for ME said:
<snip>

My only concern is that local top cops (anti-liberty top cops) will enact department policies that "hassle" OCers in those places that banned OC. There will be nothing the OCer can do about it and must comply with the law. Be prepared and record record record.

I am have difficulty loading SB 778. Is there a provision that states that OC is not RAS/PC? in other words, a cop can not just approach you to check for a valid endorsement. I don't not recall such a provision, but I could be wrong. If this issue is not addressed at all then OC is RAS/PC.

Oramac · Feb 6, 2014

bigb360 said:
Whoa whoa whoa. I had no idea this was part of the deal. 2nd amendment protection my ass. If this is what we're advocating I want no part. What if I walk from my house to my car with my rifle i can be cited? I don't want to go backwards here.

This weakened version of the sapa not only won't really help most of Missourians (since only a few municipalities ban oc) but it sounds like it's going to end up hurting all of us.

Not worth it.

I hate to say it, but if you want OC at all, this is how it's gonna be. It's not perfect, but if it were written any other way, it wouldn't even be in there.

Besides, OC is legal on your own property regardless of SAPA or not. Carrying your gun to your car is irrelevant to the discussion.

bigb360 · Feb 6, 2014

Oramac said:
I hate to say it, but if you want OC at all, this is how it's gonna be. It's not perfect, but if it were written any other way, it wouldn't even be in there.

Besides, OC is legal on your own property regardless of SAPA or not. Carrying your gun to your car is irrelevant to the discussion.

Huh? I can already open carry wherever I want because no town around me prohibits it. I don't want to suffer because of a few silly municipalities around st Louis.

The other day I walked from my cousins house across the street to my car with my rifle. If you get this through with this wording I can be cited for it. That's crap. If this is the cost I don't want it.

bigb360 · Feb 6, 2014

OC for ME said:
Your concern is valid. However there is little evidence to suggest that more political subdivisions will ban OC w/o a endorsement. There is evidence that most political subdivision will do nothing because they have not banned OC these many years via RSMo 21.750.3. The SAPA is clearly aimed at the feds and the OC with a endorsement provision is included to "permit" OC in those few political subdivision who do use RSMo 21.750.3. I could be wrong and more place will ban OC w/o a endorsement but I do not think this to be a real concern. For example, Wentzville permits OC with a endorsement, has so for a few years now. We shall see.

While I disagree with the premise, permission, it will mitigate negative encounters with LE in the few places that ban OC now. Of course, negative encounters with LE can and do happen where OC is not banned and these encounters may continue. OCing is little noticed as it is now by our fellow citizens and a minor increase in their exposure to OC is a good thing.

My only concern is that local top cops (anti-liberty top cops) will enact department policies that "hassle" OCers in those places that banned OC. There will be nothing the OCer can do about it and must comply with the law. Be prepared and record record record.

Are you saying only the municipalities that already ban oc will have the long gun prohibition? From my reading it's vague.

Fyi, I'm not trying to propagate a conversation about long gun oc, but since the topic was breached and I was surprised by what's in the law.

LMTD · Feb 6, 2014

R\walking around at night with a rifle

At what point did someone think for a second this was a good idea?

To pick a night when police are already on high alert for a great deal of petty crime to go running around in the dark with a rifle is a damn good way to get yourself shot dead.

I think this is a really stupid idea.

I also fully support the right to be stupid.

I don't think it should be illegal at an level, but be clear I would not find it as a surprise if an officer aerated you at all. Tragic and sad yes, a surprise not really, there have been a lot of folks shot with a bb gun or a toy gun in low light conditions so why not an antique Russian assault rifle or whatever other tagline the press will put on it.

OC for ME · Feb 7, 2014

bigb360 said:
Are you saying only the municipalities that already ban oc will have the long gun prohibition? From my reading it's vague.

Fyi, I'm not trying to propagate a conversation about long gun oc, but since the topic was breached and I was surprised by what's in the law.

There is no differentiation in the law between handgun or rifle. 571.030 ans 21.750.3 only refer to firearm.

The context of the viewed carry is everything. Halloween night? I have not heard of any kids getting gunned down by cops for lugging a air soft/BB gun around with their bag of candy. Though, I'd certainly not be trick or treating by myself in the OPs costume. If he is trick or treating with sexy witches, sexy nurses, zombies, and that Scary Movie guy, a cop ain't gunna look twice, may not even look once, let alone stop and check the gun.

Oramac · Feb 7, 2014

bigb360 said:
Huh? I can already open carry wherever I want because no town around me prohibits it. I don't want to suffer because of a few silly municipalities around st Louis.

The other day I walked from my cousins house across the street to my car with my rifle. If you get this through with this wording I can be cited for it. That's crap. If this is the cost I don't want it.

(sarcasm) Thanks. I really appreciate your concern for your fellow man and his rights as well. (/sarcasm)

Whoop-de-do. You can OC right now. Awesome. I applaud you. Guess what, after it passes, YOU STILL CAN! Currently, I can't, nor can thousands of other law-abiding citizens in this State. Besides, as has been stated, a long gun in a carrying case is not open carry. Hell, I've seen people use gun cases to keep guitars in. For all anyone knows, you're a musician carrying a bass around.

TL;DR: You're gonna be fine. Quit bitching.

7om5hipp · Feb 7, 2014

First off, I would not be running around at night. I would be walking with my family with the rifle slung on my shoulder unloaded. It would be worn only as a prop to the rest of the costume. And since I do not want to draw any negative attention towards OC I will simply go as something else I think, might do a Texas Ranger get up.

And while I might not agree with banning any sort of Open Carry, I think that if it will allow a person to carry a handgun for defense in a place that had once banned any form of OC than I will support it as much as I can even if I do not fully agree.

OC for ME · Feb 7, 2014

No law against carrying a unload rifle, or pistol.....ammo not readily available that is. You will be fine I suspect. However, going around as a Ruskie soldier is what I'm concerned about, a Texas ranger ain't that much better......it's a Texas thing.

bigb360 · Feb 7, 2014

Oramac said:
(sarcasm) Thanks. I really appreciate your concern for your fellow man and his rights as well. (/sarcasm)

Whoop-de-do. You can OC right now. Awesome. I applaud you. Guess what, after it passes, YOU STILL CAN! Currently, I can't, nor can thousands of other law-abiding citizens in this State. Besides, as has been stated, a long gun in a carrying case is not open carry. Hell, I've seen people use gun cases to keep guitars in. For all anyone knows, you're a musician carrying a bass around.

TL;DR: You're gonna be fine. Quit bitching.

Or we could not go backwards and capitulate one right for another. You're really willing to give up one for the other?

LMTD · Feb 8, 2014

7om5hipp said:
First off, I would not be running around at night.

Well your first post said "that night" call it my bad for not understanding that it would mean night aka dark or low light.

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