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Thread: would/should you use your oregon CHL as ID?

  1. #1
    Regular Member nilla's Avatar
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    Question would/should you use your oregon CHL as ID?

    ive been using my CHL as ID for credit card sales and age/ID checks. anybody else do this? any body think of a reason why this might be a bad thing?
    i started doing this when a business employee was asking me about my gun and was perfectly oblivious to my dad standing right next to me because he was CCing.
    maybe by showing my CHL as an ID when OCing will get people thinking about how many people are/might be carrying even tho they don't see it

    the oregon CHL has similar information as the DL for ID verification (photo, name, address, age, height, weight, sex, signature)
    once, one lady at the walmart ammo desk asked to see my DL instead. when i asked her why, since they are both government issued (county compared to state) she said that the CHL would be easier to fake than a DL. i hadn't thought about that. ... i guess i don't have a criminal mind, and i'm old enough that even if i did have a fake ID my knees will still ache when its gonna rain.
    between the two my DL has a better pic with sharper resolution and is slightly larger, but i think i'm identifiable from either card.

    my thought was that just because i have a DL doesn't mean i should be buying ammo. i'd take the CHL as more of an endorsement that i know what to do with the ammo, and i'm not gonna accidentally shoot my self or someone i love. i acknowledge that under the Gun Control Act of 1968; the legal age to purchase handgun/rifle ammo is 21/18 respectively. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968

    don't get me wrong; i'm not going around, flashing my CHL like it's a picture of my kids. i've just been showing it when i would normally show my DL (thankfully i haven't been pulled over)
    i haven't gotten any 'OMG' looks (its been mostly cashiers/waitresses) but its obvious that they are not used to the lay-out compared to the DL.
    im waiting to be asked "well, where's your gun? i don't see it on your hip"

    so any one else do/have done this?
    have any good/bad reasons for doing this?

  2. #2
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    I almost always use my CHL instead of drivers license when asked for ID. I rarely carry my wallet and drivers license which I tend to leave in the vehicle. I generally carry the CHL in case I enter a "public building" or other area requiring the CHL (not that Oregon law requires it to be in your possession but I'd rather not be charged and then produce it). Other times I use it because I simply want to say "yeah I might be packing" (think at my college, etc. where they would expel me if I open carried but they can't search me to determine if I'm concealed).

    RARELY do I present my drivers license as ID.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Back when CCW was new in MO there was great debates regarding the display of the endorsement over a DL. The endorsement is issued by the DMV and is either a state issued non-DL ID, or on the DL.

    I asked the nice lady issuing the endorsement about this subject and she said that the Sheriff recommends that you have your endorsement placed on a non-DL ID. The deputy sitting behind the glass added that he would not show folks his non-DL ID that had his endorsement on it, some folks get uncomfortable if they think a person might have a gun.

    YMMV

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    How is this different from a tee-shirt emblazoned "ARMED!!!!!!!!!!!"? The word is concealed.

    "Oh, Millie, did you see that stud that was just at my desk? He has a concealed gun permit, he showed it to me! I wonder if his gun is big enough?"
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    I used it as ID to buy a new gun last week, but only because the shop owner saw it sitting next to my DL and recognized it. The address area of my DL is an unprotected paper sticker that has been on it for 3 years and is starting to become a bit illegible so he suggested that we use the CHL instead. I have no idea if that meant anything to the guy on the other end of the phone doing the background check, but it can't hurt. For all other purposes I use my DL because that is what people are expecting to see.

    The biggest reason not to use a CHL is that it would be normalizing to people the concept of needing government permission to exercise my rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nilla View Post
    [snip]ive been using my CHL as ID for credit card sales and age/ID checks. anybody else do this?[snip]
    If a merchant is asking for ID for a Credit Card sale this is against Visa and MC rules (not sure about the others). Merchants may only compare signatures on the card and receipt. Please educate people on this they have no right to invade your privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    [snip]I almost always use my CHL instead of drivers license when asked for ID. I rarely carry my wallet and drivers license which I tend to leave in the vehicle.[snip]
    It is a very bad idea to leave your wallet and DL in the car. I have seen way too many people become victims of identity fraud because they made this common practice. Please people stop leaving this information in your cars.

    As to using a CHL as ID I show my DL it is much more recognized and people don't put up a fuss about it not being an acceptable form of ID

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    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    I've only used it when buying a gun and they cannot read my address on my driver's license and ask if I have another form of ID with my address. The stickers they give you for an address change on your DL are worthless and wear off to quick.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    If a merchant is asking for ID for a Credit Card sale this is against Visa and MC rules (not sure about the others). Merchants may only compare signatures on the card and receipt. Please educate people on this they have no right to invade your privacy.



    It is a very bad idea to leave your wallet and DL in the car. I have seen way too many people become victims of identity fraud because they made this common practice. Please people stop leaving this information in your cars.

    As to using a CHL as ID I show my DL it is much more recognized and people don't put up a fuss about it not being an acceptable form of ID
    I have a SAFE in the vehicle. Same one I use for my weapon when entering a self defense free zone that my CHL won't exempt me from. NOTE: As a VET it's a bitch to go to the VA as that's federal and they somehow think the second amendment doesn't work there.....and I don't need to be a test case against the feds.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member nilla's Avatar
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    I was carded at safeway today for a six-pack

    Cashier didn't like my concealed license and asked me for a different id.
    I assured her that both my DL and CHL are government issued ID's. I didn't mention that you have to be 21 to get a CHL.

    Is there anything that says the CHL is not an acceptable form of ID?

    In VA; I've used my VA Concealed Handgun Permit as ID at the voting booths and it is printed on paper and doesn't even have a photo. Seems like it's more important to control beer bottles than it is ballots. WTH

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    Regular Member nilla's Avatar
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    Linn County sheriffs office called me back today.
    when asked i about the legalities of whether a CHL is a valid form of ID, no laws or state code were quoted. I was told that they issue the CHL not as an ID but as a license to permit the concealed carry of a handgun in the state of Oregon.

    he said what I'm experiencing is that the store employees are trained on fake DL's and nothing else, so they see it as a fake DL when they don't recognize it immediately.

    I'd be interested to know if a CHL is mentioned anywhere in state law/code as a valid form of ID. I know why its issued, but it might make sense if it can be used for multiple purposed once it's issued. just the same, my DL was issued to permit operation of a motor vehicle in the state of Oregon, not to be used strictly as a identification card. The DMV does issue cards for the sole purpose of identification. if you are a like 14 years old or if you surrender your DL (at any age) you can get just an ID card that has no driving privilege endorsements.

    there I go again, expecting things about the government to make sense and be logical ...

  11. #11
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nilla View Post
    Linn County sheriffs office called me back today.
    when asked i about the legalities of whether a CHL is a valid form of ID, no laws or state code were quoted. I was told that they issue the CHL not as an ID but as a license to permit the concealed carry of a handgun in the state of Oregon.

    he said what I'm experiencing is that the store employees are trained on fake DL's and nothing else, so they see it as a fake DL when they don't recognize it immediately.

    I'd be interested to know if a CHL is mentioned anywhere in state law/code as a valid form of ID. I know why its issued, but it might make sense if it can be used for multiple purposed once it's issued. just the same, my DL was issued to permit operation of a motor vehicle in the state of Oregon, not to be used strictly as a identification card. The DMV does issue cards for the sole purpose of identification. if you are a like 14 years old or if you surrender your DL (at any age) you can get just an ID card that has no driving privilege endorsements.

    there I go again, expecting things about the government to make sense and be logical ...
    I don't believe you will find a specific reference to using the CHL as ID. What you will find is reference to "government issued identification" (or photo identification).
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    I don't believe you will find a specific reference to using the CHL as ID. What you will find is reference to "government issued identification" (or photo identification).
    And at the FedGov level, "RealID"

    The REAL ID Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109–13, 119 Stat. 302, enacted May 11, 2005, was an Act of Congress that modified U.S. federal law pertaining to security, authentication, and issuance procedures standards for the state driver's licenses and identification (ID) cards, as well as various immigration issues pertaining to terrorism.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    I used to manage a rental car store and i was surprised (read annoyed) how many people would give me their HCP for an DL. To rent a car you need a DL buddy.....

    However, i do use my CCW or DL as an ID, whichever i get to first since they ride together in my wallet. I have had people say they cant accept it and one lady called over her manager who asked if i had another ID to which i responded "no, that is a state issued form of ID and perfectly acceptable"

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    A CHL is not valid ID for alcohol parchases in Oregon.

    http://olccblog.blogspot.com/2008/08...lease.html?m=1

    A CHL is issued by a county sheriff and not state issued.
    Last edited by Sethrotull; 02-04-2014 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Added info

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    Regular Member DaveT319's Avatar
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    I don't understand using a CHL as ID. It's a CONCEALED handgun license, and now you're basically telling this person that you likely have a firearm, which defeats the whole purpose of having it concealed.

    I just don't understand the point...

  16. #16
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT319 View Post
    I don't understand using a CHL as ID. It's a CONCEALED handgun license, and now you're basically telling this person that you likely have a firearm, which defeats the whole purpose of having it concealed.

    I just don't understand the point...
    My CHL is not used for concealing very often (very rarely). It is used in order to have access to public buildings and other areas prohibited without a CHL. I Open Carry almost exclusively which means they already know I have a weapon.

    Concealed carry is tactically inferior in most cases.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Regular Member DaveT319's Avatar
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    I understand those points, but I meant the guys using it for other reasons, like ID when paying with a credit card or the like. That seems absurd to me.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    If a merchant is asking for ID for a Credit Card sale this is against Visa and MC rules (not sure about the others). Merchants may only compare signatures on the card and receipt. Please educate people on this they have no right to invade your privacy. ...
    It's rampant. Honestly, I've given up. As it is, most places I go to I'm a regular and I'm not ID'd anyway.

    But it really irritates me that cashiers do not know their job. They also (probably legitimately) play the "I'm doing what my boss told me to do" card, and the boss isn't there. You'll be in the right, and they'll refuse the sale. Your recourse is calling VISA or MC, but I don't know if they are pushing the issue anymore. I think they are purposely turning a blind eye. Last time I checked, there was no complaint available unless it was a general complaint about a merchant.

    Look at the gas pumps. They use ZIP codes as PINs instead of signatures. That's not in the card issuer agreement, either, unless it finally changed because this has become standard practice.

    I HATE carrying ID. The very idea of it should sicken a free man.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-07-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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    http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/471.130

    "Any other identification card issued by a state that bears a picture of the person, the name of the person, the persons date of birth and a physical description of the person."

    Oregon State Police issues CHL's.

    I only use my CHL as my ID when store clerks at places I regular keep carding me over and over and over again... They're much more likely to remember you if you show them something they've never seen before and quote a law to make them understand that it is acceptable ID.
    Last edited by sobe911; 02-07-2014 at 11:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sobe911 View Post
    Oregon State Police issues CHL's.
    Mine is signed by Sheriff Pat Garrett and only he can revoke it. I take it that you don't have an Oregon CHL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Mine is signed by Sheriff Pat Garrett and only he can revoke it. I take it that you don't have an Oregon CHL.
    http://licenseinfo.oregon.gov/?fusea..._item_id=14705

    "Responsible Agency: Police, Oregon State (OSP)"

    http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/Pages/id/chl.aspx

    "All applications for Concealed Handgun Licenses are initiated through the county Sheriff’s office in your county of residence."

    I do have my CHL...
    No need for you to be rude and imply that I don't have my CHL because of the chance that I don't have some information correct. That's extremely immature on your part.

    I'm just questioning why the Oregon.gov website would say that the Oregon State Police is responsible for CHL's, and that it would also say the applications are initiated through the county Sheriff's office.

    As an immature person would say, mine was issued by Sheriff Craig Roberts and only he can revoke it. I take it you don't have an Oregon CHL.



    Still eagerly awaiting your response SteveM.
    Last edited by sobe911; 02-08-2014 at 04:21 AM. Reason: I'd like to learn the actual truth, since apparently I'm stupid.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    welcome to the forum,,, 2 poster...

    you could use some thicker skin,,, maybe check amazon or ebay for the best price on that.

    I check handgunlaw,us to answer these type of queries.

    see this http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oregon.pdf
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    welcome to the forum,,, 2 poster...

    you could use some thicker skin,,, maybe check amazon or ebay for the best price on that.

    I check handgunlaw,us to answer these type of queries.

    see this http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oregon.pdf

    I don't bode well with being told I'm wrong, when I know I'm not.

    As far as handgunlaw.us goes, it doesn't quite contain the information cited in my 2 posts. The sources of the information in my posts are government websites, except oregonlaws.org.

    I simply joined this website to post a comment on my experience with using my CHL as ID when being carded, and I'm suddenly a big deal

    I'm certainly not planning on posting further, given this seemingly childish community; it's pretty childish to go after post count. It's an irrelevant figure when discussing facts.
    Last edited by sobe911; 02-08-2014 at 07:06 AM.

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    OSP runs the background check. The county sheriff is who issues a CHL. Even with the OSP involvement this is not a state issued ID.

  25. #25
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    We all know that everything we read on government websites and form 4473's is an accurate representation of law.

    166.291 Issuance of concealed handgun license; application; fees; liability. (1) The sheriff of a county, upon a person’s application for an Oregon concealed handgun license, upon receipt of the appropriate fees and after compliance with the procedures set out in this section, shall issue the person a concealed handgun license if the person:

    The Washington County CHL says right on it "Issued by Sheriff Pat Garrett" and is completely without any mention of the state of Oregon except as a geographical location of where the county is located.

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