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Thread: OCing in gang territory

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    OCing in gang territory

    I have read some say that they prefer not to open carry (they CC instead) in an area that is known gang territory. What is your opinion on this? Also, what are some good telltale signs for knowing you are in gang territory? I mean, in some major cities you will find graffiti everywhere. Is that enough to make some of you not want to open carry in that area?

    Yeah, yeah...I know...Don't go in those areas and you won't have to worry about it...Well, sometimes there are cases where you just have to....




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    Last edited by independence; 01-30-2014 at 11:28 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Large crews of guys on for corners or more often sitting on or in front of houses. Some rock colors (black and white, blue, white, etc). If there is a group of people all with the same of some characteristic (clothing color, race, culture, gender, etc) then it might be a crew.

    Not all "gangs" are really gangs. We have a lot of smaller crews running around that may or may not have ties to actual large national gangs, kings, crops, bloods, folk nation, ms 13, etc. Etc.

    The small crews are actually more likely to rob you or start problems. The larger more organized guys are more worried about pushing drugs and making money to deal with petty crime. So if your in their radar they will just kill you and call it a day. Although they do have young guys trying to move up.
    .if it doesn't look right, feel right, smell right.... its not right.

    Finally, they aren't bashful people. Especially when they are with their crew. If they are staring you down or even talking at/to you then its prob a crew.

    Ultimately they are usually cowards. If you appear a hard target then they'll move to easier prey. Its why we have literally the same exact characteristics for 90% (give or take) of our victims of robberies. Let's just say the victims are NOT 18-26 year old sober in shape males. If they are in that category it was targeted not just a routine robbery.



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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Large crews of guys on for corners or more often sitting on or in front of houses. Some rock colors (black and white, blue, white, etc). If there is a group of people all with the same of some characteristic (clothing color, race, culture, gender, etc) then it might be a crew.

    Not all "gangs" are really gangs. We have a lot of smaller crews running around that may or may not have ties to actual large national gangs, kings, crops, bloods, folk nation, ms 13, etc. Etc.

    The small crews are actually more likely to rob you or start problems. The larger more organized guys are more worried about pushing drugs and making money to deal with petty crime. So if your in their radar they will just kill you and call it a day. Although they do have young guys trying to move up.
    .if it doesn't look right, feel right, smell right.... its not right.

    Finally, they aren't bashful people. Especially when they are with their crew. If they are staring you down or even talking at/to you then its prob a crew.

    Ultimately they are usually cowards. If you appear a hard target then they'll move to easier prey. Its why we have literally the same exact characteristics for 90% (give or take) of our victims of robberies. Let's just say the victims are NOT 18-26 year old sober in shape males. If they are in that category it was targeted not just a routine robbery.



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    Good stuff. Thanks.

    So would you agree that it would be a bad idea to OC if you had to be in an area where there are small crew type situations? You said to be a hard target. The general consensus on this forum is that OC is a hard target. Is there an exception for gang areas? Just curious for opinions here...




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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Good stuff. Thanks.

    So would you agree that it would be a bad idea to OC if you had to be in an area where there are small crew type situations? You said to be a hard target. The general consensus on this forum is that OC is a hard target. Is there an exception for gang areas? Just curious for opinions here...




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    Honestly don't know. If I'm ocing its to or from certain places and I know the places to avoid off duty. If i do there im concealed. So I honestly have no experience other then being in uniform in the s*** areas. There has to be some guys on here with experience actually living and being in crap areas and how/when they OC.

    I say hard target because I've seen the cops get chewed up by the crew and then the cops they don't mess with. So I'm assuming it carries right over to citizens.

    I would say more then just your gun will make the difference. Having a gun doesn't make you a hard target (plenty of weak cops). YOU make you a hard target. Your body language the way you carry yourself. Eye contact or how much you acknowledge them or if you cross the street or the pace you walk all indicate prey it hard target.

    If you start swiveling all around and damn near running (fear) your going to get hemmed up just for sport. On the other end if you strut up to their corner and stare them down.... bad idea. And having a gun on your hip wouldn't change either of those because they usually have guns to. Only difference is they have the fastest kid carry the gun till they need it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Respect. Don't make yourself a target. Nod, wave, acknowledge you are in "their territory" and keep to your business.

    Most "gangs" don't kill people randomly it's bad for business.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    The Meeting Street Piggly Wiggly

    I recall once only that I had to go where I knew that I should not.

    I got a 2300 (hours for sodjer wannabes) call from the administrator of our Do Not Shop list, to verify that the Meeting Street Piggly Wiggly had un-posted. Then, perhaps even now, the only access from the suburbs was through darkest (no streetlights functioning) Charleston eastside gangland. Corner-guards would lean into my windshield to check out this ofay (Obama was still smokin' in Hawaii) in their territory. I had laid my CCW on the passenger's seat for them to see. Then, as now, OC is prohibited in South Carolina.

    A few years later I lived just blocks away at 330 Concord Street, behind an eight feet tall wall topped with broken glass and 24/7 guards at the gate. The damage from a combined forces, FBI & SLED, search of the apartment could still be detected in the freshly re-finished walls.

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    Campaign Veteran Cavalryman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I got a 2300 (hours for sodjer wannabes) call from the administrator of our Do Not Shop list, to verify that the Meeting Street Piggly Wiggly had un-posted.
    The words are English but I have no idea what you said.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nightmare
    I got a 2300 (hours for sodjer wannabes) call from the administrator of our Do Not Shop list, to verify that the Meeting Street Piggly Wiggly had un-posted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cavalryman View Post
    The words are English but I have no idea what you said.
    He received a phone call at 11:00 pm from the person that maintains the "unfriendly" list confirming that a certain store had removed their No Guns sign.

    The code for tomorrow is 23N.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavalryman View Post
    The words are English but I have no idea what you said.
    Translation: got an 11 p.m. call from the administrator of a list of places not to shop (due to having "No firearms" signs) to confirm that the Piggly Wiggly (grocery chain) on Meeting Street had indeed removed their "No guns" signage.
    Last edited by b0neZ; 02-07-2014 at 06:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    I say, OC where ever you, legally, can.

    Remember when you OC you're not looking to start a fight, you're only interested in stopping one when it is brought to you.

    I understand that there is much more to this, please don't flame me, but that is the general rule. There are other 'rules' that have been discussed on this Forum site but I don't want to drag all of those out.
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Couple years back I had found myself on the wrong side of Louisville one night, after dropping off a BF date I had. I had gotten lost and stopped at an IGA, that happened to be open at the time, it was around 10pm, to ask for directions. I was carrying a trusty ruger .40, openly, and kept my hand on the snap lock the entire time that I was outside of my vehicle, and in the store, to ask directions. When I hadn't gotten sufficient directions, I went back to my truck, and kept my hand about six inches from the loaded Saiga I kept in the rear window gun rack, the entire three hours I was lost, until I found a random street sign that guided me back to an interstate.

    Yes, you should always Open Carry in 'gang' areas, or when in the 'wrong' side of a town/city. You may be harassed by police if spotted in such undesirable areas, but I'd rather be harassed for legally OCing in such areas, by cops, than to be bleeding out on the street after being harassed by some gang-bangers.

    Usually, and in my experience, for some reason the southern side of large towns/cities are always the 'bad side' of such towns/cities. As is the case in Lexington, especially getting towards Nicholasville; South side of Cincinnati is a place I wouldn't go without a S.A.W. and a few belts of ammo!
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The police OC when they go into those areas - although they may be more likely to go in small groups. OCing, along with wearing the uniform and riding around in cars that may have funny paint jobs, advertises that they are not a soft target.

    Is it necessary to get out and walk about? Or are you sightseeing? If you have business, attend to it but remember to check what's going on around you and be willing to trust yur gut feelings about things going from OK to not-OK. If you are sightseeing you need to ask yourself why you continue to remain in the area after identifying it as probably Indian Country.

    It all comes down to the second part of what we mean when we say we OC for self protection. Are you wearing it as a magic talisman or carying it as a tool that you are fully prepared to use without hesitation?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    So, the general consensus seems to be that a lot more than just OCing goes into "self-preservation," and that may be especially true in areas that are gang-ridden. So far I haven't seen any reasoning for why it might be 'worse' than usual to openly carry as opposed to not carry or concealed carry. I think it was a very good question, the OP.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    So, the general consensus seems to be that a lot more than just OCing goes into "self-preservation," and that may be especially true in areas that are gang-ridden. So far I haven't seen any reasoning for why it might be 'worse' than usual to openly carry as opposed to not carry or concealed carry. I think it was a very good question, the OP.
    In my experience it is no worse and may be better for you, but each should know their own surroundings and neighborhoods. Some sheltered types just don't know how to not be a target.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Many decades ago I ended up in a bad part of Chicago at 230am. There all kinds of undesirable looking persons on the street corners by every stop light.

    I took the advice of an LEO that worked the bad parts of that area he said let them see you gun. My Hi power was out in the open,

    He told me that they would drive around the worse parts with handgun in hand held up in plain view.

    I didn't have any trouble and the trip was made just fine after that I was a lot more careful where I ended up.
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    A gun isn't even the primary issue in a situation like that - it's about motivations and power.

    If you are scared and act scared, you're prey. If you run from a mountain lion it's going to chase you. Don't be prey.

    If you're aggressive, you're a threat. Gangs exist for common defense and to hold territory - if you're a threat, you'll likely be dealt with. Don't be a threat.

    I would likely make eye contact and give them the "man nod" to acknowledge that I was aware of their presence, then go about my business. My business, by the way, would be to find my way to a safer neighborhood.

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    A gun isn't even the primary issue in a situation like that - it's about motivations and power.

    If you are scared and act scared, you're prey. If you run from a mountain lion it's going to chase you. Don't be prey.

    If you're aggressive, you're a threat. Gangs exist for common defense and to hold territory - if you're a threat, you'll likely be dealt with. Don't be a threat.

    I would likely make eye contact and give them the "man nod" to acknowledge that I was aware of their presence, then go about my business. My business, by the way, would be to find my way to a safer neighborhood.
    +1000 I have been telling people that for years even on this forum. There are some who think not meeting eye contact and staring straight ahead will protect them.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1000 I have been telling people that for years even on this forum. There are some who think not meeting eye contact and staring straight ahead will protect them.
    Eyes can tell a lot. A simple half second look can easily say "I see you there, and you better stay there." Not that you'd want to literally be that confrontational, but you get the idea.

    Facial expressions and looks can break language barriers as well.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 02-12-2014 at 07:15 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Eyes can tell a lot. A simple half second look can easily say "I see you there, and you better stay there." Not that you'd want to literally be that confrontational, but you get the idea.

    Facial expressions and looks can break language barriers as well.
    Add body language to that mix of communication skills.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Tackleberry1's Avatar
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    Personally... I save OC specifically for bad neighborhoods.

    My profession demands CC but when a job takes me to gangland the cover garment comes off. I firmly believe in the deterent value of being openly armed. I'm not interested in being surprised and forced to fight by thugs who mistake me as a soft target.

    I'd rather let them know up front that any aggression WILL lead to a gunfight.

    Criminals in my experience are inherently cowards and not interested in catching a bullet.

    Tack

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Eyes can tell a lot. A simple half second look can easily say "I see you there, and you better stay there." Not that you'd want to literally be that confrontational, but you get the idea.

    Facial expressions and looks can break language barriers as well.
    I know what you mean. Might be more of an "I see you, I don't fear you, I don't want to hurt you, but I won't hesitate to do so if you try to hurt me."
    Walk with purpose, walk with confidence, and use that "nod" to acknowledge their existence.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

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  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Many urban cultures and other "bad" areas have strong respect based beliefs showing respect goes a long long way.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Many urban cultures and other "bad" areas have strong respect based beliefs showing respect goes a long long way.
    Yes. Keep in mind that, regardless of your opinion of the area, these are the people that live there. If you walk into someone's home and express disdain for their housekeeping, or taste in decoration, or "house rules" then you're the rude one.

    Personally, I attempt to leave my judgements of others at home, regardless of my destination or intended route. Unfortunately, I often fall short in that attempt . . .

    I also agree with the other advice offered here. Stay alert, do your best to avoid trouble, and be ready and willing to end it if any comes your way.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Lots of good points - it is like I have always said: "how you carry yourself is more important than how you carry your weapon." It doesn't matter what neighborhood I am in, if I am constantly anxious or nervous, people will respond accordingly. I can't say I have stopped in many bad neighborhoods, I usually go through them as I have no business being there in the first place.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Running Wolf View Post
    Yes. Keep in mind that, regardless of your opinion of the area, these are the people that live there. If you walk into someone's home and express disdain for their housekeeping, or taste in decoration, or "house rules" then you're the rude one.

    Personally, I attempt to leave my judgements of others at home, regardless of my destination or intended route. Unfortunately, I often fall short in that attempt . . .

    I also agree with the other advice offered here. Stay alert, do your best to avoid trouble, and be ready and willing to end it if any comes your way.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Lots of good points - it is like I have always said: "how you carry yourself is more important than how you carry your weapon." It doesn't matter what neighborhood I am in, if I am constantly anxious or nervous, people will respond accordingly. I can't say I have stopped in many bad neighborhoods, I usually go through them as I have no business being there in the first place.
    +1

    I grew up in bad neighborhoods and lived on rez's too as a kid. The majority of the people are not bad people.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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