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Thread: Handgun Confiscated in motor vehicle accident

  1. #1
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    Handgun Confiscated in motor vehicle accident

    I would like some help. I am citizen of Independence, MO and a little over 2 weeks ago, I was riding my bicycle to work, when I was hit by a motorist. (he was at fault) I was legally open carrying my handgun for protection. As soon as I was able after getting discharged from the hospital, I contacted the Independence Police Dept. to query the custody of my gun. This is after they had already given the rest of my property, (including over $400 in cash) to a family member while I was still inpatient at Centerpoint Med Ctr. They took all my property (with the exception of clothes) at the time of the incident for "safe keeping."

    However, they are refusing to release my handgun for over two months, at which point I must attend an "Administrative Hearing" in Municipal Court. I immediately contacted the City Prosecutor at the advice of my attorney for explanation. He told me that its a new process they started a few months ago, to ensure that the weapon has not been used in a crime. I asked him if there were any charges against me, and he firmly said, "No." First of all, its a Glock G27 that I legally purchased from a friend of mine in Kansas, which I can prove. All serial numbers are intact, and I am legally able to own a gun. I can understand a background check, and a check through NCIC on the serial number, but 2 months??? How long does this take. I forwarded the city's response to my attorney and the first thing he said was, "4th Amendment." He is in Kansas, so cannot represent me here in Missouri, but told me in his opinion, this better be challenged.

    Has anyone heard of something like this? I feel like a criminal, which is very unsettling. If I have to go to court, there better be a charge. I am pro-police, but hey!
    Last edited by Michael Knopp; 01-31-2014 at 12:03 PM.

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    Contact Kevin Jamison, he'll be interested in this. 816 455-2669

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Contact Kevin Jamison, he'll be interested in this. 816 455-2669

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    Thanks! I just emailed him, will call as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Knopp View Post
    [ ... ]Has anyone heard of something like this? I feel like a criminal, which is very unsettling. If I have to go to court, there better be a charge. I am pro-police, but hey!
    Unfortunately it is quite common. Worse, your gun is now effectively registered and as a crime-gun.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    My plan for this possibility (won't help op now) is that unless life threatening injury or unconscious to wait at scene for family member/friend to arrive and turn over firearm to that person.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    My plan for this possibility (won't help op now) is that unless life threatening injury or unconscious to wait at scene for family member/friend to arrive and turn over firearm to that person.
    Since he said it happend both 2 weeks and 2 months ago I assume it was a prwrty bad accident to be in the hospital that whole time.

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    The OP is "fine" with a background check" although he is not suspected of committing any crime. Even gun owners give up their rights so willingly.

    File a suit with the town..they stole your gun basically.

    Either a full blown suit or a small claims one.

    As far as them running the gun...if you did not put electrical tape or something over it .. got knocked out and they took it..they can look at it and read the serial # and run the # to see what pops up. If you cover the # then its a search to remove the tape IMO.

    As for a BR chk on you .. its outrageous to perform unless they suspect you of a crime IMO.

    After 2 mos. I would not be interested in getting my gun back ... I'd be looking for $$$ so I could replace the gun they stole. Diamond covered grips and everything huh? Belonged to Elvis before you ! lol

    Only think towns care about is $$$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Unfortunately it is quite common. Worse, your gun is now effectively registered and as a crime-gun.
    Hence my suggestion to sue them for $$$. Buy a new gun ....

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Here are a few points you might be interested in resolving.

    Since Missouri is a single party consent state, I'd get myself a recorder, set up an interview or meeting with the prosecutor, and get some answers concerning:

    1) Are there any charges against you?
    2) Are you under investigation for any crime?
    3) Does the city consider your firearm "seized"?
    4) Does the city consider running serial numbers a "search"?
    5) If your firearm isn't seized and you aren't suspected of a crime.....what is their probable cause to conduct a search regarding the running of serial numbers?
    6) Don't they need to state probable cause before conducting a search?
    7) Ask to see the warrant to conduct the search they performed.

    Don't forget to file a FOIA requesting all electronic communications, briefings, memos, department requests, results, written material, audio recordings, evidence descriptions, filings, and documentation concerning your firearm and what they've been up to with it. It should be interesting to see the paperwork they have on your gun. Not to mention any references to "searching" that might surprisingly show up.

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    I had the same problem in my home state of Florida. I was in an auto accident my truck had to be towed and I was transported to the hospital. As I was being loaded into the ambulance I told the state trooper I had a firearm in the truck. Gave him the make, model and serial number and where it was.

    3 days later I am discharged from the hospital and go to the highway patrol station to pick up my gun. They say it has been turned over to the sheriff's department for safe keeping. I go to the sheriff's office to get it a d they say its in there evidence locker. I would need a release from the officer to get it out.

    I call highway patrol to get a release letter. The sergeant gladly types me a letter to take to the sheriff's department.
    Now the sheriff's department says I need the release from the officer that checked in my gun to evidence. I finally track down the officer who truned In my gun to evidence. He sends an email to the evidence room which they never revive.

    After 3 weeks and some help from this fourm. I was told to see a judge to have it released. As I was doing that I got a call to come get my gun for the sheriff's evidence room.

    I have no doubt they run ballistic tests on it. I keep my guns clean and it showed signs of being fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    I had the same problem in my home state of Florida. I was in an auto accident my truck had to be towed and I was transported to the hospital. As I was being loaded into the ambulance I told the state trooper I had a firearm in the truck. Gave him the make, model and serial number and where it was.

    3 days later I am discharged from the hospital and go to the highway patrol station to pick up my gun. They say it has been turned over to the sheriff's department for safe keeping. I go to the sheriff's office to get it a d they say its in there evidence locker. I would need a release from the officer to get it out.

    I call highway patrol to get a release letter. The sergeant gladly types me a letter to take to the sheriff's department.
    Now the sheriff's department says I need the release from the officer that checked in my gun to evidence. I finally track down the officer who truned In my gun to evidence. He sends an email to the evidence room which they never revive.

    After 3 weeks and some help from this fourm. I was told to see a judge to have it released. As I was doing that I got a call to come get my gun for the sheriff's evidence room.

    I have no doubt they run ballistic tests on it. I keep my guns clean and it showed signs of being fired.
    Now you have to change the barrel. Mail your old barrel to the governor. Why can a gov't corporation have your gun past the time that you allow them to possess it? Its theft after that.

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    You said you bought it from a friend in a different state? Did you do this through a FFL? If not you broke federal law. I'm assuming you did go through a FFL and that isn't an issue. I've read many stories of police trying their hardest to never give guns back, and just attempt to steal them. I'm not really sure why they think that is a good thing.
    Last edited by cjohnson44546; 02-02-2014 at 11:25 PM.

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    Please cite the federal law broken by the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Please cite the federal law broken by the OP.

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    I said the OP may have, not that he did, since I don't know the whole story... if he bought/sold a handgun across state line without a FFL involved. Legally in most states you can buy/sell your guns to anyone you choose, as long as both people reside in the same state. If the sale is going across state lines though, it must go through a FFL in the destination state.

    the ATF has a FAQ here...
    http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-...censed-persons

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Please cite the federal law broken by the OP.

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    If the OP and his friend reside in different states and if the transfer did not go through an FFL:

    18 USC 922(a) It shall be unlawful
    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides . . . any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State . . .

    And his friend violated

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in . . . the State in which the transferor resides;

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    If I get in such a situation as a auto accident,,,I will just leave my gun hidden in the car and take my chances getting it back when me or family members come to the tow lot to get my personal property from the vehicle. Giving it to the police is not someone you can trust with your firearm obviously from this thread. If it gets stolen from your car at the tow lot,,,your homeowners insurance should cover the cost of a new gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckwheat View Post
    If I get in such a situation as a auto accident,,,I will just leave my gun hidden in the car and take my chances getting it back when me or family members come to the tow lot to get my personal property from the vehicle. Giving it to the police is not someone you can trust with your firearm obviously from this thread. If it gets stolen from your car at the tow lot,,,your homeowners insurance should cover the cost of a new gun.
    Sorry, but I don't see how it's a smart idea to simply leave a loaded handgun hidden in a car while some tow company takes it to an impound lot somewhere where who knows what person may have access to it. Now if it's locked inside the vehicle where someone would have to willfully go through a lot of effort to get that gun, that's a little bit better. But if you were involved in an accident, and had plenty of opportunity to have that gun secured at the scene before the vehicle was towed and you kept it hidden, then you would have a lot of answering to do if that gun was taken and used in a crime. I would rather deal with some ignorant bull headed police department over a $400 gun than sit in a hospital room worrying about my gun hidden in my wrecked car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjasper View Post
    Sorry, but I don't see how it's a smart idea to simply leave a loaded handgun hidden in a car while some tow company takes it to an impound lot somewhere where who knows what person may have access to it. Now if it's locked inside the vehicle where someone would have to willfully go through a lot of effort to get that gun, that's a little bit better. But if you were involved in an accident, and had plenty of opportunity to have that gun secured at the scene before the vehicle was towed and you kept it hidden, then you would have a lot of answering to do if that gun was taken and used in a crime. I would rather deal with some ignorant bull headed police department over a $400 gun than sit in a hospital room worrying about my gun hidden in my wrecked car.
    then you would have a lot of answering to do if that gun was taken and used in a crime.
    None whatsoever, as long a it was legal to have it there in the first place.

  19. #19
    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    This kind of theft is ridiculous. When people in government forget that they are there to serve the good citizens who foot the bill, anything goes. How did this story end?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HP995 View Post
    This kind of theft is ridiculous. When people in government forget that they are there to serve the good citizens who foot the bill, anything goes. How did this story end?
    As a resident of Independence, I'm curious about this as well... I've generally had ok dealings with the local police officers, but I do know there are several that fall into the "Jack-Booted Thug" category and some are just idiots when it comes to knowing the law.

    So, do you have your handgun back, was this resolved, have you sued the city yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    If the OP and his friend reside in different states and if the transfer did not go through an FFL:

    18 USC 922(a) It shall be unlawful
    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides . . . any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State . . .

    And his friend violated

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in . . . the State in which the transferor resides;
    The OP just said his friend is in KS. They might have both been living in the same state when the purchase occurred.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Knopp View Post
    I would like some help.
    I think the right thing to do is hire an attorney to FILE A MOTION WITH THE COURT asking for release of the gun. Call a local firearm attorney and ask them what you should do.

    Once granted, you can go to the police agency that stole it from you and they'll have to release it. You'll probably have to fill out a form and give them your SS#. You might consider taking along a locking briefcase to put the gun in to carry it out to your vehicle (even if OC is legal there).

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    OP came for advice, got it, and is gone.



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