View Poll Results: Do you cooperate with roadblocks if they are trying to catch a murderer?

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  • Yes, cooperate fully

    1 1.61%
  • Yes, cooperate, but they don't need to open any doors or your trunk

    11 17.74%
  • No, I refuse to submit to any searches

    40 64.52%
  • Avoid rodblock, and if stopped simply repeat"Am I being detained?"

    10 16.13%
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Thread: Roadblocks to catch a murderer, cooperate with being searched or not.

  1. #1
    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Roadblocks to catch a murderer, cooperate with being searched or not.

    I was watching a crime show on the ID channel and a murderer had killed three people in three towns. While on the run he stole a car from a woman he contacted because her car was for sale. At this point they showed news coverage of the manhunt and police were stopping cars and checking the backseat and trunks.

    I looked at my wife and said "Hell no, they're not looking in my trunk." My wife disagreed and said you should help them find the killer and if you refuse they will waste time on you, andtherefore you are helping him escape.

    I argue that looking in my trunk will not help them, and if they waste time with me it's their own stupidity and not my fault. I also don't think we should give up our rights just to help the police, and as responsible citizens we should be more resistant to this kind of tactic being used.

    Usally my wife agrees with me on these issues, but we could not agree on this, so I am wondering what do other people think, I respect my wife's opinion and the fact she was so adamant that I am crazy on this issue has me second guessing myself a little.
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  2. #2
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    Where is the warrant for the search?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Where is the warrant for the search?
    "My badge is all the warrant I need."

    I would tell them to burn in hell, personally.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  4. #4
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Not if they were stopping every vehicle moving down a particular road/roads.

    If they had a report that the suspect was in a vehicle HIGHLY similar to mine, then yes.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    No different than their wanting to search your home because you live along the escape route.

    Everything is fine here officer.

    Come in and look around? Sure when you have a warrant. Have a nice evening.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
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    So the guy they were chasing was a murderer? Convicted murderer? How about innocent until proven guilty?

    Then they are chasing an innocent man, right? He's not guilty yet, right?

    Now they want to search your trunk because there is an innocent man on the loose.

    So they search your trunk anytime.

    One is either innocent or guilty.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    So the guy they were chasing was a murderer? Convicted murderer? How about innocent until proven guilty?

    Then they are chasing an innocent man, right? He's not guilty yet, right?

    Now they want to search your trunk because there is an innocent man on the loose.

    So they search your trunk anytime.

    One is either innocent or guilty.
    You forgot "alleged" - innocence or guilt is established by court decision.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No different than their wanting to search your home because you live along the escape route.

    Everything is fine here officer.

    Come in and look around? Sure when you have a warrant. Have a nice evening.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Like this?
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

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  9. #9
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Lol I knew that was coming

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  10. #10
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    I was watching a crime show on the ID channel and a murderer had killed three people in three towns. While on the run he stole a car from a woman he contacted because her car was for sale. At this point they showed news coverage of the manhunt and police were stopping cars and checking the backseat and trunks.

    I looked at my wife and said "Hell no, they're not looking in my trunk." My wife disagreed and said you should help them find the killer and if you refuse they will waste time on you, andtherefore you are helping him escape.

    I argue that looking in my trunk will not help them, and if they waste time with me it's their own stupidity and not my fault. I also don't think we should give up our rights just to help the police, and as responsible citizens we should be more resistant to this kind of tactic being used.

    Usally my wife agrees with me on these issues, but we could not agree on this, so I am wondering what do other people think, I respect my wife's opinion and the fact she was so adamant that I am crazy on this issue has me second guessing myself a little.
    The only way that you're helping them catch the killer by allowing them to look in your trunk is if you're transporting the fugitive in it. Perhaps the best way to help is not to allow unwarranted searches, but to simply not transport fugitives in your trunk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No different than their wanting to search your home because you live along the escape route.

    Everything is fine here officer.

    Come in and look around? Sure when you have a warrant. Have a nice evening.
    QFT
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 01-31-2014 at 06:57 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

  11. #11
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Lol I knew that was coming

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    "lol"? You think that's ******* funny, do you?
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 01-31-2014 at 07:00 PM. Reason: remove what could be considered a personal attack. my apologies to anyone that saw it.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    "lol"? You think that's ******* funny, do you?
    Negative my friend not the actions in the photos but the use of the photos. Specifically by this poster in general. Don't construe it into something it isn't.

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  13. #13
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Negative my friend not the actions in the photos but the use of the photos. Specifically by this poster in general. Don't construe it into something it isn't.

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    What you post can be taken at face value?
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Lol I knew that was coming

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    He is dead on with that photo and video. What happened in Boston was an inexcusable--and did not help catch the terrorist bomber.

    No. I will not cooperate with the police in an illegal search of my vehicle. They shouldn't have even stopped me without RAS.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You forgot "alleged" - innocence or guilt is established by court decision.
    Presumed innocent, yes?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    The only way that you're helping them catch the killer by allowing them to look in your trunk is if you're transporting the fugitive in it. Perhaps the best way to help is not to allow unwarranted searches, but to simply not transport fugitives in your trunk.



    QFT
    Right ! And this guy would be protected by the 4th amendment ... so what they trying to accomplish?

    Just indoctrination my friend.

    Good post.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    He is dead on with that photo and video. What happened in Boston was an inexcusable--and did not help catch the terrorist bomber.

    No. I will not cooperate with the police in an illegal search of my vehicle. They shouldn't have even stopped me without RAS.
    Not for nothing..... but they caught the guy because they were going door to door and that homeowner said hey look in my back yard.

    Not saying ripping people out of their houses is ok at all. Not remotely.

    But also has anyone spoken with those people in the photos? Did they allow them in? What was the story? You just have a photo and if can be construed however you want to.

    Think about this for one second.... we talk about anti gun people using photos of full auto guns or scenes of mass shooting to twist and fit their agenda.... right? So why is it ok to to do that with this agenda?

    That's all I'm saying. Again NOT justifying or belittling or minimizing or doing anything people want to assign. I'm pointing out some hypocrisy that's all.

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  18. #18
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    There going door to door had absolutely nothing to do with catching him. He got away, the only reason they got him was a civilian was smarter than they were. The knee jerk reaction to the Boston Bombing made Mass LEOs look like idiots.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkingwolf View Post
    there going door to door had absolutely nothing to do with catching him. He got away, the only reason they got him was a civilian was smarter than they were. The knee jerk reaction to the boston bombing made mass leos look like E V I L idiots.
    fify
    Last edited by georg jetson; 01-31-2014 at 08:47 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Not for nothing..... but they caught the guy because they were going door to door and that homeowner said hey look in my back yard.

    Not saying ripping people out of their houses is ok at all. Not remotely.

    But also has anyone spoken with those people in the photos? Did they allow them in? What was the story? You just have a photo and if can be construed however you want to.

    Think about this for one second.... we talk about anti gun people using photos of full auto guns or scenes of mass shooting to twist and fit their agenda.... right? So why is it ok to to do that with this agenda?

    That's all I'm saying. Again NOT justifying or belittling or minimizing or doing anything people want to assign. I'm pointing out some hypocrisy that's all.

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    It would only be hypocracy if it was a lie. That - lying - is the tactic which is used by the anti-gun crowd which is attacked by gun rights supporters, not simply the use of photographs with superimposed wording. The photographs posted here contain no lies.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    It would only be hypocracy if it was a lie. That - lying - is the tactic which is used by the anti-gun crowd which is attacked by gun rights supporters, not simply the use of photographs with superimposed wording. The photographs posted here contain no lies.
    I was referring to photos of the aftermath they use to instill fear and bring emotions and away "this is why you should ban guns" etc. Or photos/videos of guns firing to show how "scary" they are.

    No lies. Some guns were used to kill people. Some guns do fire full auto and that scares some people. They aren't lies but its TWISTED by antis for their propaganda.

    Same as the above photos. No lies. Police did go door to door. But now they are being posted up to SCARE people about police or the .gov. they are being used to instill rage or other emotions. So.... a form of propaganda.



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  22. #22
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Not for nothing..... but they caught the guy because they were going door to door and that homeowner said hey look in my back yard.

    Not saying ripping people out of their houses is ok at all. Not remotely.

    But also has anyone spoken with those people in the photos? Did they allow them in? What was the story? You just have a photo and if can be construed however you want to.

    Think about this for one second.... we talk about anti gun people using photos of full auto guns or scenes of mass shooting to twist and fit their agenda.... right? So why is it ok to to do that with this agenda?

    That's all I'm saying. Again NOT justifying or belittling or minimizing or doing anything people want to assign. I'm pointing out some hypocrisy that's all.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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    Submitting at the point of a "patrol rifle" isn't the same as "warmly welcomed in".

    The first 25 seconds of this video fairly well describes to me what the inhabitants were dealing with. Pay attention to the "knock" on the door. Treat my property like that and one of us will need a doctor.

    At 29 seconds, the guy who answered the door is seized outside his door, a commando rushes into the house. The guy who was forced out appears to ordered to run into the street where a hunted terrorist is loose, from the safety of his home. Then the occupants are frisked at gunpoint. On a positive note, no reports have surfaced that the invaders "needed" to shoot the dog.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I was referring to photos of the aftermath they use to instill fear and bring emotions ...
    There is nothing wrong with using TRUTH to remind us not to forget that are supposed to not just be pissed off about it, but that SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT, because so far, nothing has changed.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  24. #24
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Propaganda. Right. The guy at 40 seconds....the one that says "They banged on the door, I was shocked. Then, there was a gun. Or two guns what ever, pointing down at me and the guys said GET OUT GET OUT and I said Ok, and I wanted to know do I get my shoes or...and the guys says GET OUT GET OUT." He just didn't have that...what would you call it..."convincing conviction" in his voice about his gratitude about what he had just been subjected to.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ1-ZUN3Li0

    Dude up against the garage door with all those patrol rifles pointed at him had to be thankful.

    The lady at the end...never mind. The guy in the beginning, the one the ninja clads were pointing their "big guns" at...he and his daughter.....saw nothing particularly wrong with low impulse, low accountability occupying forces assuming it was alright to put his daughter out in the street with a loose terrorist. At gun point.

    Note to self: Do not drink the water in Massachusetts.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I was referring to photos of the aftermath they use to instill fear and bring emotions and away "this is why you should ban guns" etc. Or photos/videos of guns firing to show how "scary" they are.

    No lies. Some guns were used to kill people. Some guns do fire full auto and that scares some people. They aren't lies but its TWISTED by antis for their propaganda.

    Same as the above photos. No lies. Police did go door to door. But now they are being posted up to SCARE people about police or the .gov. they are being used to instill rage or other emotions. So.... a form of propaganda.



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    Have you watched the videos? The police did more than "go door to door." They used force to obtain compliance with illegal searches. Bostonians let it happen. The people who once gave us the "shot heard 'round the world" gave us the "whimper heard 'round the world."

    Shame on those LEAs. More shame on the people who let it happen.


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