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This article pissed me off

bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
http://news.yahoo.com/gun-debate-pr...-143503185.html;_ylt=AwrSyCOEPvBSh2EACjfQtDMD

A few select quotes for your enjoyment:

"I have seen it in the nativist camp, where these grizzled old white extremists try to provoke their enemies with guns on their hips, itching to blast someone."

or

"Acting like a deadly threat is imminent, walking around stores jerking your head around ... 'on a swivel,' planning your tactical movement from the gas pump to the cash register IS paranoid behavior, unless you live in Fallujah"

The article appears to try and present an unbias look at the rise of gun owners in America, but it seems to be leaning a little too far to the left for my taste.
 

Alsherry

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
50
Location
Puyallup, Washington, United States
Hmmm. "One of 555 examples" vs "between 8 million and 11 million citizens carrying concealed guns in public". Goodness, if my math serves me correct, that's a whopping 0.0069% to 0.0050%. I wish I has those kind of odds walking down Third between James and Yesler on getting robbed, mugged, shot, killed, etc.

First read the "ARGUMENTS FOR CONCEALED CARRY". Packed full of statistics, facts, and numbers.
- National Crime Victimization Survey reports that Americans used guns in self-defense 338,700 times over five years ending in 2011.

- In a Reuters/Ipsos poll last spring, 75 percent favored concealed carry by eligible citizens.

- The number of incidents in which concealed-gun carriers kill innocent people is a fraction of 1 percent of all gun-related homicides.

- In North Carolina, one of only a handful of states that reveals the identities of permit holders, 200 of the 240,000 concealed carriers (.08 percent) committed felonies of all types, including eight shooting deaths, in the five-year period ending in 2011. This compares with about 2.5 percent of voting-age Americans who have a felony rap sheet, according to The Sentencing Project.

- Surprisingly to some, 91 percent of 15,000 police officers polled recently by the PoliceOne organization also said they support citizens' ability to carry concealed weapons.

Just to site a few.

Then read the "ARGUMENTS AGAINST".

- "Just because you're a law-abiding citizen today doesn't mean you're going to be one tomorrow." - Assumption. Guilty until proven Innocent?

- "In a lot of these cases," - What cases?

- For some gun-control advocates, the trend toward concealed carry also raises troubling undercurrents of race and class. They cite words often seen on pro-gun Internet forums – the "good guy" versus "the thug," a term that commentators from the blogosphere to the sidelines of the NFL (Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman) are calling the "new N-word." - BECAUSE EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET IS REAL!

- Gun-control advocates consequently see the gun-carry movement as populated at least in part by white men who feel politically unempowered and who may be inclined to indulge in displays of extra muscle and power over their fellow citizens. - RACISTS! Lol, Politically underpowered, hmm? Because gun ownership is always politically motivated.

-"Acting like every situation involves a critical threat is goofy.... Don't confuse life with movies." - But don't dare bring up the proportion of those with a politically anti-gun position that have committed mass murders.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, the anti-gun groups have one and one only tactic in convincing others of their misguided opinions; "ad hominem". And boy, do they love to use it.
 
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bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
Hmmm. "One of 555 examples" vs "between 8 million and 11 million citizens carrying concealed guns in public". Goodness, if my math serves me correct, that's a whopping 0.0069% to 0.0050%. I wish I has those kind of odds walking down Third between James and Yesler on getting robbed, mugged, shot, killed, etc.

First read the "ARGUMENTS FOR CONCEALED CARRY". Packed full of statistics, facts, and numbers.
- National Crime Victimization Survey reports that Americans used guns in self-defense 338,700 times over five years ending in 2011.

- In a Reuters/Ipsos poll last spring, 75 percent favored concealed carry by eligible citizens.

- The number of incidents in which concealed-gun carriers kill innocent people is a fraction of 1 percent of all gun-related homicides.

- In North Carolina, one of only a handful of states that reveals the identities of permit holders, 200 of the 240,000 concealed carriers (.08 percent) committed felonies of all types, including eight shooting deaths, in the five-year period ending in 2011. This compares with about 2.5 percent of voting-age Americans who have a felony rap sheet, according to The Sentencing Project.

- Surprisingly to some, 91 percent of 15,000 police officers polled recently by the PoliceOne organization also said they support citizens' ability to carry concealed weapons.

Just to site a few.

Then read the "ARGUMENTS AGAINST".

- "Just because you're a law-abiding citizen today doesn't mean you're going to be one tomorrow." - Assumption.

- "In a lot of these cases," - What cases?

- For some gun-control advocates, the trend toward concealed carry also raises troubling undercurrents of race and class. They cite words often seen on pro-gun Internet forums – the "good guy" versus "the thug," a term that commentators from the blogosphere to the sidelines of the NFL (Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman) are calling the "new N-word." - BECAUSE EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET IS REAL!

- Gun-control advocates consequently see the gun-carry movement as populated at least in part by white men who feel politically unempowered and who may be inclined to indulge in displays of extra muscle and power over their fellow citizens. - RACISTS! Lol, Politically underpowered, hmm? Because gun ownership is always politically motivated.

-"Acting like every situation involves a critical threat is goofy.... Don't confuse life with movies." - But don't dare bring up the proportion of those with a politically anti-gun position that have committed mass murders.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, the anti-gun groups have one and one only tactic in convincing others of their misguided opinions; "ad hominem". And boy, do they love to use it.

Bravo! Well stated!
 

deanf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
1,789
Location
N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
"Acting like a deadly threat is imminent, walking around stores jerking your head around ... 'on a swivel,' planning your tactical movement from the gas pump to the cash register IS paranoid behavior, unless you live in Fallujah"

That is pretty funny.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
- "Just because you're a law-abiding citizen today doesn't mean you're going to be one tomorrow." - Assumption.

Exactly. Every criminal was a law-abiding citizen until they stopped being one. I wonder, do they realize that they are arguing at least as strongly against the concept of innocent until proven guilty as they are against ownership of firearms?
 

Whitney

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
435
Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
If the shoe fits

Exactly. Every criminal was a law-abiding citizen until they stopped being one. I wonder, do they realize that they are arguing at least as strongly against the concept of innocent until proven guilty as they are against ownership of firearms?

For thinkers.....
"Well your equipped to be a prostitue but does that make you one?"
"Just because you are a law abiding citizen today doent mean your going to be one tomorrow."

~Whitney
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Quick observation:

This article is replete with ad hominem attacks and guilt-by-association.

For instance, the identification of open carry activists with "nativism".

Sorry to break the narrative, but a good many OCers are hardcore libertarians, and a good many of them either favor open borders, or are otherwise sufficiently in favor of an open society to render the term "nativist" meaningless.

This makes it clear that the article is, in fact, extremely biased, although subtly so (at least at first glance).
 
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sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Quick observation:

This article is replete with ad hominem attacks and guilt-by-association.

For instance, the identification of open carry activists with "nativism".

Sorry to break the narrative, but a good many OCers are hardcore libertarians, and a good many of them either favor open borders, or are otherwise sufficiently in favor of an open society to render the term "nativist" meaningless.

This makes it clear that the article is, in fact, extremely biased, although subtly so (at least at first glance).

+1 typical fallacy arguments when lacking logic.

You against government welfare= you must want women and children to starve.

You don't like unconstitutional wars= you must want us to be invaded.

You don't like unconstitutional proactive policing= you must hate safety.

etc...
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
+1 typical fallacy arguments when lacking logic.

You against government welfare= you must want women and children to starve.

You don't like unconstitutional wars= you must want us to be invaded.

You don't like unconstitutional proactive policing= you must hate safety.

etc...
Some appeals to emotion tossed in their too.

You for government welfare= you want women and children to be wards of the state.

You like unconstitutional wars= you must want us to not be invaded.

You like unconstitutional proactive policing= you must hate liberty.
Just sayin.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
"Acting like a deadly threat is imminent, walking around stores jerking your head around ... 'on a swivel,' planning your tactical movement from the gas pump to the cash register IS paranoid behavior, unless you live in Fallujah"

That is pretty funny.

Here's the thread they pulled it from...

http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37576

it seems "hiker" didn't get to good a reaction to his rant .......
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
You against government welfare= you must want women and children to starve.

You don't like unconstitutional wars= you must want us to be invaded.

You don't like unconstitutional proactive policing= you must hate safety.

etc...

That is so true, how did you know, are a mind-reader or something? :shocker:

I hate safety so much that I take mine into my own hands.
 

arentol

New member
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
383
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
"I have seen it in the nativist camp, where these grizzled old white extremists try to provoke their enemies with guns on their hips, itching to blast someone."

You left out the best part on that one:

"There is a certain psychology at work with some who carry openly or concealed," writes columnist Stephen Lemons, in the Phoenix New Times newspaper. "I have seen it in the nativist camp, where these grizzled old white extremists try to provoke their enemies with guns on their hips, itching to blast someone."

Isn't it convenient how you can yellow up your discussion with juicy stuff like that without YOU having to actually write one yellow word yourself? Heck, you can even disavow it in the very next paragraph...

While that may be harsh, even some concealed-carry proponents see a strain of disturbing behavior among some carriers.

...while still getting all the benefit of it in increased views and juicy secondary quotes on websites like, oh say, Opencarry.org.

Admittedly this is piece is a "Debate" piece, giving it some added leeway, but even that appears to just be a convenient excuse to present a biased argument by presenting the pro-2A arguments as weakly as possible while presenting the anti-2A arguments as strongly and as yellow as possible.
 
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