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Thread: Secret meetings - PA13-3 / SB 1160's creation - FOIC Case hearing-crazy claims

  1. #1
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    Secret meetings - PA13-3 / SB 1160's creation - FOIC Case hearing-crazy claims

    Seems as if the general assembly members believe that they can meet in secret whenever and wherever they want.

    I had a hearing today before the FOIC. I expected them to argue that they were meeting as a caucus and hence exempt from FOIA.

    Nope.

    They argued that they can have secret meetings anytime they want and if a person finds out about it then the only relief is to bring it up to the general assembly.

    They basically admitted to the secret meetings I discovered but said that it does not matter. That the provisions of CGS Sec. 1-225 simply do not apply to them or that the only relief of violations of our open meetings provisions is through the general assembly themselves.

    So they claim that they do no not have to notices of meetings, hold them behind closed doors, not file minutes, etc. For ALL types of meetings that the assembly has.

    The relief I asked for: voiding PA13-3, SB 1160
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 02-04-2014 at 03:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Seems as if the general assembly members believe that they can meet in secret whenever and wherever they want.

    I had a hearing today before the FOIC. I expected them to argue that they were meeting as a caucus and hence exempt from FOIA.

    Nope.

    They argued that they can have secret meetings anytime they want and if a person finds out about it then the only relief is to bring it up to the general assembly.

    They basically admitted to the secret meetings I discovered but said that it does not matter. That the provisions of CGS Sec. 1-225 simply do not apply to them or that the only relief of violations of our open meetings provisions is through the general assembly themselves.

    So they claim that they do no not have to notices of meetings, hold them behind closed doors, not file minutes, etc. For ALL types of meetings that the assembly has.

    The relief I asked for: voiding PA13-3, SB 1160


    Been a lurker here for a few months. Finally had to register to reply and catch your attention David.

    I think the crusade you are on is noble, and a true patriotic endeavor.

    I would like to see how I might be able to assist in this fight. Truly, using the beast's own tactics against itself is the last recourse we have before things get real fugly.

    Email me at my username@gmail.com

    Or, check out my youtube channel of the same name, and send me a message/comment there.


    Keep the faith, Patriot!

  3. #3
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    Well here is one reason why the assembly thinks that their meetings can be secret w/o violating the act:

    CT Constitution

    SEC. 13. Each house shall determine the rules of its own proceedings, and punish members for disorderly conduct, and, with the consent of two-thirds, expel a member, but not a second time for the same cause; and shall have all other powers necessary for a branch of the legislature of a free and independent state.


    Its a retarded reason ... easily shot down ... as the FOIA act does mention -Joint Rules - not house or senate rules + if they were exempt under Sec. 13 above why would they even be mentioned in the Act at all?

    I asked and was granted the opportunity to provide the commission a memorandum to be due on the 11th of this month...so I can address the legal issues clearly.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 02-04-2014 at 07:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBeWithYourSoul View Post
    Been a lurker here for a few months. Finally had to register to reply and catch your attention David.

    I think the crusade you are on is noble, and a true patriotic endeavor.

    I would like to see how I might be able to assist in this fight. Truly, using the beast's own tactics against itself is the last recourse we have before things get real fugly.

    Email me at my username@gmail.com

    Or, check out my youtube channel of the same name, and send me a message/comment there.


    Keep the faith, Patriot!
    Well, the law is that secret meetings can be challenged at the FOIC once discovered by a citizen. I just got a set of records from Sen. Bye and what did I find? Secret meetings in outlook calender. I tried to amend my complaint that was heard today but this was after the complaint was written by the commission (we just write notices of alleged violations ~ the commission actually writes "the complaint") so the commission denied my request to amend last week. So I went forward with the secret meetings I found of Sen. Stillman, Sen. Williams, Sen. Bye, and Rep. Godfrey ... (Bye and Godfrey had their own secret meeting on 25 FEB 13 discussing insurance being part of SB 1160).

    If you want, I can forward you the records obtained, highlight the secret meetings and you can file a complaint to the commission. I just got the records from Bye on the 21st of last month.

    Violations to be highlighted would include:
    No notice
    No agenda (although they actually may be exempt from that under 1-225~still looking)
    No public attendance allowed
    No meeting minutes produced

    Asked relief:
    Finding of secret meetings or non-compliance with Act
    Voiding the meeting and its outcome of the agencies that they were a part of (subcommittees of the task force ~ each are their own "agency" under FOIA law) -- ie ask that PA13-3, PA13-220, and SB 1160 be voided (and yes the commission can do this ~ up to them)
    Ask for civil sanctions against the members
    Ask for criminal sanctions against the members


    Shoot me a PM w/contact info if you wish to pursue.

  5. #5
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    Here is the basis for another argument that meetings can be secret:

    In the final analysis, if legislation
    is passed without prior notice to the public, without a public
    hearing and in violation of the joint rules of the General
    Assembly, the only remedial process that is available to those
    aggrieved by such action is political rather than judicial.

    194 Conn. 165
    Supreme Court of Connecticut.
    SCHIEFFELIN & COMPANY
    v.
    DEPARTMENT OF LIQUOR CONTROL, et al.
    FOREMOST–McKESSON, INC.
    v.
    LIQUOR CONTROL COMMISSION
    of the State of Connecticut et al.
    Argued May 4, 1984. | Decided Aug. 7, 1984.


    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=en&as_sdt=4,7

    Of course the legislature is pleading that because our state constitution allows them to make their own rules (that they can violate at will) then they can have closed door meetings.

    But they forgot Art. 3 Sec. 16 .. all debates will be public ....

    Sucks for them I think. Writing a memorandum of law now to provide the hearing officer in the case.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 02-06-2014 at 02:54 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBeWithYourSoul View Post
    Been a lurker here for a few months. Finally had to register to reply and catch your attention David.

    I think the crusade you are on is noble, and a true patriotic endeavor.

    I would like to see how I might be able to assist in this fight. Truly, using the beast's own tactics against itself is the last recourse we have before things get real fugly.

    Email me at my username@gmail.com

    Or, check out my youtube channel of the same name, and send me a message/comment there.


    Keep the faith, Patriot!

    Still no on filing open meetings complaint?

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