sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
You didn't see any coercion and threats?
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Dufus with camera 1 Cop 0
- Thread starter onus
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You didn't see any coercion and threats?
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Primus
Regular Member
There we go....
The threat to go to his work place and brother him?
And what coercion? Are you implying he was coercing him to leave by threatening to bother him at work?
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marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Harassment is illegal in Washington State. Threatening to commit an aggressive crime is illegal and immoral. Demands made against right and backed up with threats constitute coercion.
The officer in question literally and explicitly threatened to "go to your newspaper and harass you". Therefore, the officer in question is legally and morally a criminal.
QED.
Try again.
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Primus
Regular Member
Pretty sure he said to go to your work and bother you. But I get the point.
So be it. They got into a ******* contest already agreed he shouldnt have done that.
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PistolPackingMomma
Regular Member
If the tables were turned, and the citizen was threatening to "bother" the cop at his building of employment, would you still hold the same position?
Or would the word "harass" suddenly become more sinister?
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Please do not take this as a defense of Primus, but citizens are allowed to pester police at their place of work. It is the appropriate place to make citizen complaints. I do have a problem with some so called activists stalking the family of police officers and going to their homes to harass them.
PistolPackingMomma
Regular Member
Not disagreeing; merely pointing out that filing a complaint is not the same as harassing an individual due to personal vendetta.
I bet my boots if a cop were under such "threats" from a citizen, he would argue he feared ______, and any action he took (such as arrest) would be justified. I don't see equal recourse occuring on the citizen's behalf.
OC for ME
Regular Member
It is normally called "tit for tat." Or, "good for the goose, good for the gander."
But, it is neither of the above.
You do a tit for tat with that cop, he, or his buddies, will arrest you for a myriad of criminal offenses. Don't let anyone tell you different, LE (the profession) holds themselves above the law. They have conned politicians and the courts to back them up on that score. Cop unions are the worst offenders by shielding thug cops.
I advocate for keeping your trap shut, record the interaction, and then pursue criminal and civil sanctions for every little infraction that a cop makes when he is on the clock. I would swear out a criminal complaint to use the process against the offending cop. This will highlight the attitude of that LEA based on their response to the criminal complaint.
Either that cop is let go, or his department will close ranks and start harassing the citizen to pressure the citizen to get back in their place. It has happened in the past, and it will happen again in the future.
But, it is neither of the above.
You do a tit for tat with that cop, he, or his buddies, will arrest you for a myriad of criminal offenses. Don't let anyone tell you different, LE (the profession) holds themselves above the law. They have conned politicians and the courts to back them up on that score. Cop unions are the worst offenders by shielding thug cops.
I advocate for keeping your trap shut, record the interaction, and then pursue criminal and civil sanctions for every little infraction that a cop makes when he is on the clock. I would swear out a criminal complaint to use the process against the offending cop. This will highlight the attitude of that LEA based on their response to the criminal complaint.
Either that cop is let go, or his department will close ranks and start harassing the citizen to pressure the citizen to get back in their place. It has happened in the past, and it will happen again in the future.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
While the cop was wrong to implicate he would "harass" the reporter at work. It would not be illegal for the cop to observe the employee at his work as long as he did not harass. Depending on the business open or closed policies.
It is like when working the beach. Ladies like to sunbath topless, perverts like to take pictures. On most beaches neither is illegal. But the ladies who expose themselves on a public beach demand that the perverts be arrested. They get very distressed when it is explained they do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy on a public beach. My advice to them was to get a camera and follow the perverts around taking pictures. Which some did and it worked, they vacated the beach to go somewhere else. It is the same advice I gave some SOCAL police depts. And it appears to be working.
It is like when working the beach. Ladies like to sunbath topless, perverts like to take pictures. On most beaches neither is illegal. But the ladies who expose themselves on a public beach demand that the perverts be arrested. They get very distressed when it is explained they do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy on a public beach. My advice to them was to get a camera and follow the perverts around taking pictures. Which some did and it worked, they vacated the beach to go somewhere else. It is the same advice I gave some SOCAL police depts. And it appears to be working.
Primus
Regular Member
Ummm he was doing exactly that. The officers were working at a scene and the guy came up to them.
He initially involved himself in their stop wanting to know why there were so many officers. Then he left and REengaged the other officers.
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OC for ME
Regular Member
Under the law, technically speaking, you could be correct, depending on the exact wording of the law and case law. But, if I stood across the street from the local cop shop, in plain view of all, and photographed that cop each time he came and went, I'll wager that I would be arrested, I'll even go as far as to almost guarantee that I would be arrested for stalking that cop.
Would a cop get arrested for stalking me, no way in hell, he is observing, doing that which he is being paid to do. Clearly a double standard.
The key to exercising this "public spaces" stuff is to steer clear of the cop's personal, off the clock, life. Do not speak with them/him, and always be passive. Record record record.
Would a cop get arrested for stalking me, no way in hell, he is observing, doing that which he is being paid to do. Clearly a double standard.
The key to exercising this "public spaces" stuff is to steer clear of the cop's personal, off the clock, life. Do not speak with them/him, and always be passive. Record record record.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
DS does that everyday, and has only got arrested when he interfered with actual police operations. Interjecting his opinion to suspects, getting to close to the scene and in some cases actually threatening the officers. For the most part he has only been arrested on a couple occasions. But then he does this on a daily basis, not just a few times.
Keep in mind that news agencies in large cities keep reporters on a continual basis in police depts without incident.
I would put it this way, it is not illegal for a wild bear to see you as food. It is not illegal to be in the same place as the bear. Do it as a way to make a living sooner or later the bear will have you for dinner. This happened to a wildlife journalist in Africa with gorillas. Poking a wild bear with a stick often is downrignt stupid. Add that to being a smart arse and a person could end up shot, as the cop blocker did. While it was wrong what they did they got away with it, and he now is looking at a prison sentence.
WE all should be responsible for our actions, and if they backfire we are still responsible. The reporter in this incident IMO acted responsibly, and he handled it responsibly. The person who thinks the reporters actions vindicate his stalking is a idiot. If he was such a champion he would refuse a settlement, and act like the reporter did, seek redress, not money.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Granted, even the bear part. However, I did not address these valid points. I addressed the very specific premise that PPM posted.
If I threatened to "bother" a cop at his place of employment, the premise, and then behave as I indicated, I would most certainly be charged with stalking that cop. There is no tit for tat where cops are concerned. Their special status, regardless of the specific facts of any given situation, expands the range of options the cops have to respond to my behavior. It is that special status that limits my options to respond to their behavior.
Anyway, most cops do not care a wit about getting "filmed." It is that cop who thrusts out his chest, only because he has a badge, that needs a attitudinal adjustment.
You are delusional. The reporter was standing 50 feet away taking pictures and the police engaged HIM.
You want to see how the police SHOULD have handled a member of the press.......watch and learn.
[video=youtube;TNTt5iBB4qY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNTt5iBB4qY[/video]
Primus
Regular Member
Did you watch the video? During the conversation with the officer he ADMITS he approached the officers and asked them why there were so many of them for one guy.
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marshaul
Campaign Veteran
What's your point?
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
This is an exaggeration, lie...both...
"The incident occurred on a Tuesday evening in the International District. The short version: Several cops had been surrounding a man sitting on a planter box. I hopped off my bicycle and started taking photos from a distance when Saulet rushed over to say I'd be arrested if I didn't leave. He claimed, wrongly, that I was standing on private property. Even though his statement didn't sound right to me—I was standing in a Metro transit plaza—I backed up until I stood unambiguously on the City of Seattle's sidewalk. But Saulet insisted that was illegal, too, and that I would be arrested unless I left the block. I filed a complaint with King County against Saulet and another complaint with the Seattle Police Department against a nearby SPD officer (who threatened to come into The Stranger's offices and harass me at work for asking questions)."
Sounds like the fired thug had to put some effort into getting to the scofflaw photographer. Why would he need to rush.....anywhere......if the reporter was "involved" with the officers?
"Left" and REengaged. A bit of a different story than the victim tells. Wasn't he ordered to leave, the thug cop even moving his hand towards his holstered firearm, indicating what...he was willing to kill if his commands were not obeyed? "Driven off" might be more appropriate.
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Primus
Regular Member
another lie.
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