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Thread: We must bans sodas - 5 yr old girl dies from drinking some - murder charge

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    We must bans sodas - 5 yr old girl dies from drinking some - murder charge

    An East Tennessee couple faces a murder charge, accused of forcing the man's 5-year-old daughter to drink more than 2 liters of grape soda and water, causing her brain to swell and rupture, authorities said.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/c...-soda-22396061 ^^

    A MURDER charge? lol Its not even manslaughter.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I agree. What is the lowest chargeable offense in TN when a citizen dies at the hands of another? Even that would be a stretch.

    Slippery slope.

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    Campaign Veteran Cavalryman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    A MURDER charge? lol Its not even manslaughter.
    I disagree. Left to his/her own devices, a sane person will not drink enough of any "normal" liquid (an obvious exception being alcohol because it impairs judgment) to cause injury. If a person is compelled to drink too much of anything, including water, over too short a period of time it may kill them. If you are the one who compelled the drinking, then you murdered that person. This is not a case where a kid voluntarily drank a lot of soda and got fat. She was forced to drink the soda as punishment. The fact that they called it a punishment proves they knew it could be dangerous or at the very least quite uncomfortable. They killed her. They should burn.

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    The girl was forced to drink the soda. It's certainly manslaughter, no matter how loud DM laughs at this. Obviously the soda was not at fault, which was the point in the OP. It's also pretty obvious the girl was not at fault either. What should be outlawed is cruel and unusual punishment . . . oh yeah, it already is. Guess that explains the criminal charges.

    Doh!
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Forced to drink, I despise these parents already..and to cause a senseless death with their idiocy!
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    a girl should not fie from drinking 3 qts of liquid ... usually takes 2 gallons ... not anything criminal

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    a girl should not fie(sic) from drinking 3 qts of liquid ... usually takes 2 gallons ... not anything criminal
    I'm sure that there is a relationship to quantity ingested over time versus body weight presuming an otherwise healthy individual, but found no cite.

    Negligent homicide doesn't seem like an unreasonable application..
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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out how drinking that much soda can cause such an injury....
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    I'm trying to figure out how drinking that much soda can cause such an injury....
    Water intoxification is very serious though not common.
    http://medical-dictionary.thefreedic...r+intoxication
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Dehydration could cause that, yes. At the same time I have difficulty understanding it. More so I have a hard time how any parent can do something this gross and heinous to their child.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Ban high capacity soda bottles for sale in any home that has children!!!
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Eeets for zee cheeldruun, mein fuhrer! Ziggety ziggety HII...EL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Water intoxification is very serious though not common.
    http://medical-dictionary.thefreedic...r+intoxication
    Many things we ingest can kill if not taken in moderation ... caffeine is another ...

    But most people are simply not aware ... to be convicted of murder you must first know that what you are doing could kill. Not that it could but also that you know it could.

    And as noted in this thread, not everyone is aware.

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    Yesterday my neighborhood science-discussion forum met. One of our two (K - 12) school teachers of "science" joined us for the first time. He mentioned that "the immune system shuts down for about an hour after intake of sugar," in the context of cancer immunotherapy and Cherenkoscopy during external radiation therapy.

    The previous time that I paid attention to him in public, some years ago, he instructed that Sucralose (Splenda) is toxic for the chlorination of sugar, substitution of hydroxy OH groups with chlorine. Ten-ish years ago he achieved national notoriety for beheading a chicken during class instruction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yesterday my neighborhood science-discussion forum met. One of our two (K - 12) school teachers of "science" joined us for the first time. He mentioned that "the immune system shuts down for about an hour after intake of sugar," in the context of cancer immunotherapy and Cherenkoscopy during external radiation therapy.

    The previous time that I paid attention to him in public, some years ago, he instructed that Sucralose (Splenda) is toxic for the chlorination of sugar, substitution of hydroxy OH groups with chlorine. Ten-ish years ago he achieved national notoriety for beheading a chicken during class instruction.
    9 milligrams per day per kilogram..Many of the studies were designed to identify possible toxic effects, including carcinogenic, reproductive, and neurological effects. No such effects were found, and FDA's approval

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucralose ^^

    Splenda (sucralose) is being downgraded from "safe" to "caution" after an Italian animal study linked sucralose to a higher risk of developing leukemia
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/262475.php ^^

    Why is Splenda popular? Because its one sugar sub that can be used in baking.

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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    I saw a guy do that once. Many years ago. He beheaded a chicken and put a sign on it calling it Ayyatolah Khomenie (sp?).
    No one really cared, though a few people offered him a couple bucks for the chicken once it bled out....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Ten-ish years ago he achieved national notoriety for beheading a chicken during class instruction.
    http://www.upc-online.org/nr/021004hatchet.html
    Last edited by Nightmare; 02-08-2014 at 09:17 AM.
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    "Soda doesn't kill children. Parents kill Children"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    I'm trying to figure out how drinking that much soda can cause such an injury....
    According to this article from Scientific American:

    Every hour, a healthy kidney at rest can excrete 800 to 1,000 milliliters, or 0.21 to 0.26 gallon, of water and therefore a person can drink water at a rate of 800 to 1,000 milliliters per hour without experiencing a net gain in water, Verbalis [chairman of medicine at GWUMC] explains. If that same person is running a marathon, however, the stress of the situation will increase vasopressin levels, reducing the kidney's excretion capacity to as low as 100 milliliters per hour.
    I assume that Mr. Verbalis was referring to an adult with those figures. I am not sure what they are for a child, but I'm pretty sure that a 5-year old cannot process as much fluid per hour as an adult. If she was forced to drink 2400 mL over a 1-2 hour period, that's way too much.

    Water in the body is regulated by sodium. Drinking water has virtually no sodium; soda has some sodium but not as much as is in the bloodstream. When you overload someone's body with fluid that has less sodium than that in the bloodstream, water is going to seep out of the bloodstream into nearby tissues. When this happens in the brain, you can get swelling, followed by herniation and death (which is what happened here).

    A criminal-negligence manslaughter charge, at a minimum, is appropriate. This was a horrible, inexcusable action by the parents that directly caused the child's death.

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    Causing the death of another is homicide. Murder requires intent to kill or in some statutes reckless disregard for life.
    It'll come out in the trial the details, but unless they can prove the malice aforethought thing, it looks like a manslaughter to me.
    Dick move either way. How is making a kid drink a lot of pop a punishment unless you're doing something effed-up like making them hold their piss or something like that?
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 509rifas View Post
    Causing the death of another is homicide. Murder requires intent to kill or in some statutes reckless disregard for life.
    It'll come out in the trial the details, but unless they can prove the malice aforethought thing, it looks like a manslaughter to me.
    Dick move either way. How is making a kid drink a lot of pop a punishment unless you're doing something effed-up like making them hold their piss or something like that?
    I've heard about parents doing stupid things like that. A child asks for a soda while visiting a friend's home. The child's parent is a nut case and decides to punish the child for asking for/drinking a soda at a friend's home, by forcing that child to drink a case of soda while yelling and screaming at them.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I've heard about parents doing stupid things like that. A child asks for a soda while visiting a friend's home. The child's parent is a nut case and decides to punish the child for asking for/drinking a soda at a friend's home, by forcing that child to drink a case of soda while yelling and screaming at them.
    Like smoke? Here, smoke this whole carton! I heard it was 2L .... who would think 2L would cause death? No one.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Like smoke? Here, smoke this whole carton! I heard it was 2L .... who would think 2L would cause death? No one.
    The child died.
    The proximal cause of her death was being forced to drink an inordinate amount of soda.
    Should there be no penalty for that?

    Really?
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I agree. What is the lowest chargeable offense in TN when a citizen dies at the hands of another? Even that would be a stretch.

    Slippery slope.
    No law against forcing your kid to drink too much soda, is there? Or, should there be?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The child died.
    The proximal cause of her death was being forced to drink an inordinate amount of soda.
    Should there be no penalty for that?

    Really?
    Yes there should be a penalty. No more so than the penalty for thinking you were pulling a taser and not a gun when you shoot a unarmed citizen. No more so than a cop getting his comeuppance for riddling a car with bullets because he is scared and shot with his eyes closed. No more so than any other person.

    The problem I have is singling out the "child/children" part. A citizen died. Fit the facts to existing law and go from there. Even a plea bargain is warranted. Those nitwit parents lost their daughter, how much more punishment do you think they merit?

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    No law against forcing your kid to drink too much soda, is there? Or, should there be?

    Yes there should be a penalty. No more so than the penalty for thinking you were pulling a taser and not a gun when you shoot a unarmed citizen. No more so than a cop getting his comeuppance for riddling a car with bullets because he is scared and shot with his eyes closed. No more so than any other person.

    The problem I have is singling out the "child/children" part. A citizen died. Fit the facts to existing law and go from there. Even a plea bargain is warranted. Those nitwit parents lost their daughter, how much more punishment do you think they merit?
    Those nitwit parents didn't lose their daughter, they killed their daughter. No sympathy for them. You sound like the kid who killed his parents and then plead for clemency because he was an orphan...
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