Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Paper CPL

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Almont, MI.
    Posts
    3

    Paper CPL

    I am new to the forum. Good to be here. I would like to find out if there has ever been any talk of doing away with the B.S. paper CPL here in Michigan that you have to laminate yourself and have something put on your drivers license like a cycle endorsement? Has this ever been talked about?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Something more professional would be good, but trust me, you do NOT want an endorsement on your license.
    That's just an open invitation to being 'investigated' for a crime you're not committing. For that matter you don't want an remotely accessible database of your license either (but that's what most states seem to like doing.)

  3. #3
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Depending on the county some licenses are like driver licenses, like Kalamazoo. Mecosta still does paper, but they laminate for you for free. Also I would NOT want my DL to show that I have a CPL.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 02-08-2014 at 11:26 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    I would think that just walking around, as a freeman, is evidence enough you can carry.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Ktmden View Post
    I am new to the forum. Good to be here. I would like to find out if there has ever been any talk of doing away with the B.S. paper CPL here in Michigan that you have to laminate yourself and have something put on your drivers license like a cycle endorsement? Has this ever been talked about?
    oakland county issues a plastic CPL. and yes, the DL endorsement idea was floated sometime in the past by a previous secretary of state. but it never went anywhere.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  6. #6
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Wild Wild West Michigan
    Posts
    1,188
    Ok, Why would it be bad to have an endorsement on the DL?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Ok, Why would it be bad to have an endorsement on the DL?
    I know that when similar discussion crops up on other forums, there are a number of "concealed means concealed" proponents who go on and on about it being nobody's business that they own or carry a gun and wouldn't want that knowledge revealed to anyone when they need to use their DL as identification for other purposes.

    Open carriers, who generally make little or no attempt to hide their armed status, seem to care less.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Ok, Why would it be bad to have an endorsement on the DL?
    a) You're stopped because an officer confused your car with one of the same color that was speeding. He gets a case of the ****** because you've already interrupted his day. Now he looks at your license and sees you may be armed. Instead of acting rationally he goes all Daniel Harless

    b) You're visiting relatives, a new employer, an old flame, whatev's and happen to cross into Maryland. A Maryland Transit Authority officer stops you and sees that you have a pistol license. He goes ballistic.

    c) You loose your wallet with your specially marked license inside. It's found by your local gang-banger. Guess who's home he can now reasonably suspect has a firearm for the thieving? Alternately, he may impersonate a good neighbor and offer to return it to you at a neutral location. While there your home is unattended or you may be meeting at what you think is a rendezvous but is actually an ambush.

    I have long wondered at the government's insistence at putting a citizen's address on Everything it can, while at the same time doing as much as it can to ensure that it's employee's addresses, car licenses and other documents are shielded.

    Aside from the convenience to the government, I can't think of any reason at all why a citizen's address should appear on his license, that information is available at a moment's notice from centralized records.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Wild Wild West Michigan
    Posts
    1,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    a) You're stopped because an officer confused your car with one of the same color that was speeding. He gets a case of the ****** because you've already interrupted his day. Now he looks at your license and sees you may be armed. Instead of acting rationally he goes all Daniel Harless

    b) You're visiting relatives, a new employer, an old flame, whatev's and happen to cross into Maryland. A Maryland Transit Authority officer stops you and sees that you have a pistol license. He goes ballistic.

    c) You loose your wallet with your specially marked license inside. It's found by your local gang-banger. Guess who's home he can now reasonably suspect has a firearm for the thieving? Alternately, he may impersonate a good neighbor and offer to return it to you at a neutral location. While there your home is unattended or you may be meeting at what you think is a rendezvous but is actually an ambush.

    I have long wondered at the government's insistence at putting a citizen's address on Everything it can, while at the same time doing as much as it can to ensure that it's employee's addresses, car licenses and other documents are shielded.

    Aside from the convenience to the government, I can't think of any reason at all why a citizen's address should appear on his license, that information is available at a moment's notice from centralized records.
    Because my CPL would not lead to the same problem? I generally carry my DL and my CPL in the same wallet. I often open carry as do many on this forum.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    a) You're stopped because an officer confused your car with one of the same color that was speeding. He gets a case of the ****** because you've already interrupted his day. Now he looks at your license and sees you may be armed. Instead of acting rationally he goes all Daniel Harless

    b) You're visiting relatives, a new employer, an old flame, whatev's and happen to cross into Maryland. A Maryland Transit Authority officer stops you and sees that you have a pistol license. He goes ballistic.

    c) You loose your wallet with your specially marked license inside. It's found by your local gang-banger. Guess who's home he can now reasonably suspect has a firearm for the thieving? Alternately, he may impersonate a good neighbor and offer to return it to you at a neutral location. While there your home is unattended or you may be meeting at what you think is a rendezvous but is actually an ambush.

    I have long wondered at the government's insistence at putting a citizen's address on Everything it can, while at the same time doing as much as it can to ensure that it's employee's addresses, car licenses and other documents are shielded.

    Aside from the convenience to the government, I can't think of any reason at all why a citizen's address should appear on his license, that information is available at a moment's notice from centralized records.
    a) When the officer runs your name he'll know you have a CPL also if you're armed when stopped you're required to inform. One time me and my friend were stopped after leaving a bar over a banner that was stolen from the bar. 10 minutes into the 30 minute stop (and about 10 cops from 3 different departments standing around) I was asked where the gun was. Now nothing had been mentioned at this point about a gun except when we were first stopped we were asked if we had any guns or knives. The fact I had a CPL didn't even cross my mind. I asked "What gun?" The cop said I had a CCW so he wanted to know where my gun was. I told him it was at home. He took my word for it and didn't search me or anything.

    b) Agreed

    c) Agree with the post above me. If they go through my wallet they'll find my CPL.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,251

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    oakland county issues a plastic CPL. and yes, the DL endorsement idea was floated sometime in the past by a previous secretary of state. but it never went anywhere.
    Macomb County now has Hard plastic CPLs. Very durable!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Ok, Why would it be bad to have an endorsement on the DL?
    I wouldn't want it, because many people look at a GL for ID purposes and some of them may treat you different or make decisions not in your favor because they see you have a CPL

    Doctor office
    lab blood work
    traffic stop
    employment
    Insurance
    Banking
    ETC.

    I just would want it for those people to see.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •