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recently happened...

Sheldon

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
556
Location
Battle Creek, ,
This happened to my oldest son who lives in a pro gun state, (moved there over 15 years ago) due to specific reasons I am not going to go into great detail…

Got a text from him saying “I never thanked you for the gun”… FYI I buy all my kids a pistol for their 21st B day, and pay for their CCW…
I replied “come in handy?” his response “yes will call later”…

The next day I get a call. He drives taxi (Prius) as an independent (pays a flat fee plus they get a % of the take,) is his own boss, likes the hours and gets good tips.

A few days back he is out looking for a rider when someone blows off a red light in front of him, he slams on the breaks hard, and lays on the horn to keep from T boning them…
Proceeding on the guy that blew the light has dropped behind him, pulling up next to my son (4 lane in town) he started an exchange while they were moving swearing, yelling, gesturing, so my son immediately dialed 911.

On the phone 911 got to hear this guy shout, swearing, threatening, honking horn, and they told him that they had a unit on the way. When he attempted to run my boy off the road (he keeps his SW .38 on the seat beside him as per my urging after all driving a hack is dangerous), He raised his gun so he could see it was no bluff, and told him “I have a gun stay away” 911 on the phone heard and recorded the entire incident as He warned the guy no less than 5 times that he had a gun to stay back.

Although he attempted to keep moving both vehicles suddenly stuck in traffic, the aggressor takes advantage of this and jumps out of his car charging my son still in his taxi, again my son yells “stay back I have a gun and I will use it!”
When he says this the 911 operator asks “are you in fear of your life?” He responds “Yes I am” and they reply “do what is necessary to remain safe”.
The guy yanks open the door on the Prius (for some reason the taxi company has the door lock defeated) and reaches to grab my son by the throat and the boy immediately shoots twice hitting the aggressor both times. Striking him once in the shoulder, once in the chest, this stops the attacker, and the police arrive on the scene almost immediately after. Placing the guy under arrest, and in an ambulance, the officers commend my son on remaining calm throughout the incident, (the 911 operator told them so).

As it turns out the perp was a Mexican / illegal / gang banger with multiple wants and warrants out for his arrest… this individual was placed under immediate arrest and arraignment as soon as he is out of the hospital (non fatal shooting).
There were 3 witnesses to the event that stayed and confirmed his story to the police.
Yes they took my sons .38 saying he should have it back within a couple of weeks. No charges were filed or issued against him, nor are any pending at this point in time (the officers were on his side indicated he should not worry, that this was a clean righteous case of SD).
So far he has managed (and told the police) he does not want the press involved, nor does not want his name released.
The company that he leases the taxi from although it has specific policy for their drivers this does not apply to contract independent drivers, and they have been very kind and concerned as to his welfare so far.

When I talked to him I told him to get his rear to a gun shop and buy another ASAP, Gang Bangers if they manage to identify him will be out for revenge.
 
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davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
He probably should not announce he had a gun ... the guy could have had one too and used it first.

A good outcome so far ... you are wise to advise him to get re-armed.

Should probably start wearing a vest too.
 

CT Barfly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
328
Location
Ffld co.
I wasn't there, I don't know what the situation was like, the info is already second-hand...but I didn't see anything about the OP's son saying "hey man, my bad" and ignoring the idiot (while dialing 911 and keeping a watchful eye out).

How much horn-blowing did the OP's son do?

Hard to draw any conclusions from this tale. I've never had a road-rager attempt to pull me from my car, been honked at plenty for spacing out behind the wheel, but this kind of escalation seems a bit strange without the OP's son feeding into it in some way...perhaps by waving a gun around?

Guns aren't warnings...they're a last resort. Your brain is your most important tool for self-defense.
 
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MasterGadgets

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
17
Location
Pensacola, FL
I wasn't there, I don't know what the situation was like, the info is already second-hand...but I didn't see anything about the OP's son saying "hey man, my bad" and ignoring the idiot (while dialing 911 and keeping a watchful eye out).

How much horn-blowing did the OP's son do?

Hard to draw any conclusions from this tale. I've never had a road-rager attempt to pull me from my car, been honked at plenty for spacing out behind the wheel, but this kind of escalation seems a bit strange without the OP's son feeding into it in some way...perhaps by waving a gun around?

Guns aren't warnings...they're a last resort. Your brain is your most important tool for self-defense.

If someone runs a red light and almost causes you an accident, are you not going to give a good long horn honk to the idiot?

The idiot tried to run him off the road. In my mind, that is assault with a deadly weapon. He had every right to defend himself.

It sounds to me like he keept his cool and came out OK.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I will not second guess past events.

Your son should get a lawyer, just in case.

Write the weapon off as a loss.

During his "work day" he needs to run a audio and video device as a independent means to substantiate his claims.

It is good that your son had the presence of mind to keep 911 on the phone while addressing the issue at hand.

Good luck.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
If someone runs a red light and almost causes you an accident, are you not going to give a good long horn honk to the idiot?

The idiot tried to run him off the road. In my mind, that is assault with a deadly weapon. He had every right to defend himself.

It sounds to me like he keept his cool and came out OK.

Explain to me how 'laying on the horn' prevents T-boning the red light runner. As far as I know the horn has no braking function. Here we have seen that had the OP's son NOT laid on the horn NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT.

HTH
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
I wasn't there, I don't know what the situation was like, the info is already second-hand...but I didn't see anything about the OP's son saying "hey man, my bad" and ignoring the idiot (while dialing 911 and keeping a watchful eye out).

How much horn-blowing did the OP's son do?

Hard to draw any conclusions from this tale. I've never had a road-rager attempt to pull me from my car, been honked at plenty for spacing out behind the wheel, but this kind of escalation seems a bit strange without the OP's son feeding into it in some way...perhaps by waving a gun around?

Guns aren't warnings...they're a last resort. Your brain is your most important tool for self-defense.

Horns are there for a purpose a warning, seems laying the horn in this case was done for here I am don't hit me.

If one can Use defensive display or by warning the other guy that you are armed defuses or stops the situation with out a shot being fire.

You are better off then just shooting the attacker. No matter how justified you are shooting someone is always a big hassle. If you can avoid it you are better off.

If the attacker was enraged so much that he disregarded the warnings and the gun why do you think he wouldn't have attacked if the shooter hadn't showed it.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Horns are there for a purpose a warning, seems laying the horn in this case was done for here I am don't hit me.

I'm not sure you're able to picture the situation. When someone blows through a red light, by the time you hit the horn they are several car lengths past you. Assuming, of course the OP's son is not psychic.
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
If he had time to brake, he had time to hit the horn

I'm not sure you're able to picture the situation. When someone blows through a red light, by the time you hit the horn they are several car lengths past you. Assuming, of course the OP's son is not psychic.

Just because someone blows through a red light does not mean they were not seen coming.

I wonder where this happened. I would like to find a media account, or at least know what state it was in.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
I'm not sure you're able to picture the situation. When someone blows through a red light, by the time you hit the horn they are several car lengths past you. Assuming, of course the OP's son is not psychic.

Maybe maybe not if that's the case there might not even be time to hit the brakes depending on their speed.

The OP stated "he slams on the breaks hard, and lays on the horn to keep from T boning them…"

Seems to me he used the brakes and the horn to avoid a crash.

We were not there one can only go by the facts stated.
 

bomber

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
499
Location
, ,
The armchairing starts immediately, lol.

Glad OP's son is ok. The rest of you guys need to get a life.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
The armchairing starts immediately, lol.

Glad OP's son is ok. The rest of you guys need to get a life.

As yourself why people post here. To get an opinion on the veracity of their actions.

But thank you for the content-free post.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Maybe maybe not if that's the case there might not even be time to hit the brakes depending on their speed.

The OP stated "he slams on the breaks hard, and lays on the horn to keep from T boning them…"

Seems to me he used the brakes and the horn to avoid a crash.

We were not there one can only go by the facts stated.

Please explain how 'laying on the horn' causes any effect, other than to rile the red-light runner. Without the inappropriate, ineffective and aggressive (and possibly illegal) use of the horn, the OP's son would not have had to shoot the BG. IMO.

Upshot? Don't use your horn aggressively, it serves no purpose, and it illustrates how we are actually PART of the road raging by doing so.
 

Red Dawg

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Eastern VA, with too many people
Please explain how 'laying on the horn' causes any effect, other than to rile the red-light runner. Without the inappropriate, ineffective and aggressive (and possibly illegal) use of the horn, the OP's son would not have had to shoot the BG. IMO.

Upshot? Don't use your horn aggressively, it serves no purpose, and it illustrates how we are actually PART of the road raging by doing so.

Laying on the horn is a second nature response to people that piss you off, or scare you. Especially cabbies. 9/10 of the time, it isn't even thought of as agressive by them, it's just what they do to make people see them, get out of their way, move, etc...My wife is one of those drivers that uses the horn for all the stupid crap. I am in mostly agreement that it serves no real purpose to lay on the horn, except to agrevate the other driver. I do use a quick bump of the horn when someone is "asleep" when the light turns green, but, that is it...
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
Please explain how 'laying on the horn' causes any effect, other than to rile the red-light runner. Without the inappropriate, ineffective and aggressive (and possibly illegal) use of the horn, the OP's son would not have had to shoot the BG. IMO.

Upshot? Don't use your horn aggressively, it serves no purpose, and it illustrates how we are actually PART of the road raging by doing so.

It could cause the other driver to see you, swerve away from you, brake or other actions to avoid the crash.

The red light runner could just as well been some one driving with their head where the sun doesn't shine, texting on the phone and just not paying attention and needed wake up signal .

There's no indication that this use of the drivers horn was inappropriate or illegal. Besides some idiot gang banger taking offense to it.

The BG is the only one responsible for his getting shot he could have just as easily not followed not threatened nor left his car and attacked the other driver.

What don't you understand that threating some one attacking some one is a good way to get shot.

I could see that people with self control issues might be worried about some one blowing a horn at them and could end up being shot because their stupid and illegal assault on the other driver.
 
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Sheldon

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
556
Location
Battle Creek, ,
Laying on the horn is a second nature response to people that piss you off, or scare you. Especially cabbies. 9/10 of the time, it isn't even thought of as agressive by them, it's just what they do to make people see them, get out of their way, move, etc...My wife is one of those drivers that uses the horn for all the stupid crap. I am in mostly agreement that it serves no real purpose to lay on the horn, except to agrevate the other driver. I do use a quick bump of the horn when someone is "asleep" when the light turns green, but, that is it...

In Chicago when in a cab, the light turns green the cabie hits thet horn before even moving... no this was not in Chicago...

Here they blow the light so often on RH on Red it is not even remotely funny, most will not even do a slow and go, they just nail it and expect everyone to get out of their way... and if they got as aggressive for being honked at as this criminal did, the hospitals in two cities would be full to over flow by now...

When I honk at you it means you screwed up, don't get mad but look first and drive safe next time!!!

As of last night my son said the aggressor was still in a coma in intensive care, with any luck he will not remember being shot and hence my sons face...
 
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CT Barfly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
328
Location
Ffld co.
"The challenge for every man is to decline to play an ancient game whose rules and imperatives have been inscribed in his very cells. If you want to avoid unnecessary violence, you must keep your inner ape on a very short leash."

"Similarly, all men should learn to recognize and shun status-seeking displays of aggression." - Sam Harris
 

LeMat

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
162
Location
Kalispell, Montana, USA
I simply cannot believe the cab driver is being made out to be the one at fault here. None of us were there. We have to take the story at face value as that is all we have.

The illegal alien gang banger is the victim here? Really?!?!

Pathetic.

If you're so angry a person and so completely out of control that you feel the need to drag someone outta his car because he honked his horn over something YOU did, you DESERVE to get shot.
 

CT Barfly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
328
Location
Ffld co.
I simply cannot believe the cab driver is being made out to be the one at fault here. None of us were there. We have to take the story at face value as that is all we have.

The illegal alien gang banger is the victim here? Really?!?!

Pathetic.

If you're so angry a person and so completely out of control that you feel the need to drag someone outta his car because he honked his horn over something YOU did, you DESERVE to get shot.

a group of people who routinely walk around with the ready means to take life, examining the actions of one of their own to see how best to avoid using deadly force is not a fool's errand. it is called learning. critique after action is a useful means for improving everybody's TTPs.
 
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