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Thread: Denied a permit to carry, please help.

  1. #1
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    Denied a permit to carry, please help.

    I was recently denied a permit to carry. My denial letter came in the mail saying I have the right to submit any documentation relating to my denial. Upon them recieving this, it says they have 15 business days to reply to my appeal. Today was the 15th day. Nothing in the mail.

    What I don't understand is, what happens if they don't respond in 15 days. I read somewhere that if the original application isn't responded to within 30 days that it is considered issued. I'm not sure if since they didn't respond to the appeal within the 15 days that they said they have to review and respond, if it is now considered issued.

    I live in minnesota which is a shall issue state, if that matters.

    I really appreciate any advice of help in advance. Thanks for your time.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Any idea why denied? Probably best to consider a lawyer. Try to find the '15 day rule' in Minnesota law. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Any idea why denied? Probably best to consider a lawyer. Try to find the '15 day rule' in Minnesota law. Good luck.
    8 years ago when I was 17, I was in a horrible relationship with a girl in highschool. She broke up with me and I told some teacher at school that I tried to kill myself. None of that was true, but I did it to scare my girlfriend because she use that phrase on me so many times that I stopped taking the phrase seriously. She used it to scare me, so I used it to scare her. They ended up taking me to a mental hospital on a "72 hour hold" I got out in 48 once they realized I wasn't a risk to myself or others. The denial was based on this event. They said I may be a danger to myself or others. I have nothing else on my record. Not one single crime. I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs. I go to church every Sunday. I just made a mistake as a dumb teenager. Learned my lesson. I explained all of this to them, I even got a mental health assessment from a licensed therapist. She wrote a really great letter on my behalf and signed it. So I sent both my letter and her letter in, but I have yet to hear back. Their "15 day time period" expired today, and still nothing.

    Just wondering what happens now since they didn't respond I'm the time they said they would.

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    Sorry for the long story guys, just being honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdockter View Post
    8 years ago when I was 17, I was in a horrible relationship with a girl in highschool. She broke up with me and I told some teacher at school that I tried to kill myself. None of that was true, but I did it to scare my girlfriend because she use that phrase on me so many times that I stopped taking the phrase seriously. She used it to scare me, so I used it to scare her. They ended up taking me to a mental hospital on a "72 hour hold" I got out in 48 once they realized I wasn't a risk to myself or others. The denial was based on this event. They said I may be a danger to myself or others. I have nothing else on my record. Not one single crime. I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs. I go to church every Sunday. I just made a mistake as a dumb teenager. Learned my lesson. I explained all of this to them, I even got a mental health assessment from a licensed therapist. She wrote a really great letter on my behalf and signed it. So I sent both my letter and her letter in, but I have yet to hear back. Their "15 day time period" expired today, and still nothing.

    Just wondering what happens now since they didn't respond I'm the time they said they would.
    You said 15 days from the day they received the appeal right? How do you know when they received it? Did you hand deliver or certified mail?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    You said 15 days from the day they received the appeal right? How do you know when they received it? Did you hand deliver or certified mail?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Correct. Mailed it, they got exactly 15 business days ago.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    It would help to know what county denied you. There are 87 counties there in the land of the wind chill factor. And some of the sheriff's are anti gun. Actually, I think most are anti anything other than target shooting and hunting. Oddly enough, most of the "gun people" I know in Minnesota believe their gun laws are lax. There is no RTKABA in the state constitution, and it shows in the attitudes of law enforcement.

    I suggest you call an attorney that can direct you and / or advise you on how to proceed. Check your PM's for a phone number of one that is highly involved in blocking Minnesota attempts to restrict the RTKABA.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    It would help to know what county denied you. There are 87 counties there in the land of the wind chill factor. And some of the sheriff's are anti gun. Actually, I think most are anti anything other than target shooting and hunting. Oddly enough, most of the "gun people" I know in Minnesota believe their gun laws are lax. There is no RTKABA in the state constitution, and it shows in the attitudes of law enforcement.

    I suggest you call an attorney that can direct you and / or advise you on how to proceed. Check your PM's for a phone number of one that is highly involved in blocking Minnesota attempts to restrict the RTKABA.
    Great info. Thanks. I applied in Hennepin county.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.714

    (b) Failure of the sheriff to notify the applicant of the denial of the application within 30 days after the date of receipt of the application packet constitutes issuance of the permit to carry and the sheriff must promptly fulfill the requirements under paragraph (c). To deny the application, the sheriff must provide the applicant with written notification and the specific factual basis justifying the denial under paragraph (a), clause (2) or (3), including the source of the factual basis. The sheriff must inform the applicant of the applicant's right to submit, within 20 business days, any additional documentation relating to the propriety of the denial. Upon receiving any additional documentation, the sheriff must reconsider the denial and inform the applicant within 15 business days of the result of the reconsideration. Any denial after reconsideration must be in the same form and substance as the original denial and must specifically address any continued deficiencies in light of the additional documentation submitted by the applicant. The applicant must be informed of the right to seek de novo review of the denial as provided in subdivision 12.

    Subd. 12.Hearing upon denial or revocation. (a) Any person aggrieved by denial or revocation of a permit to carry may appeal by petition to the district court having jurisdiction over the county or municipality where the application was submitted. The petition must list the sheriff as the respondent. The district court must hold a hearing at the earliest practicable date and in any event no later than 60 days following the filing of the petition for review. The court may not grant or deny any relief before the completion of the hearing. The record of the hearing must be sealed. The matter must be heard de novo without a jury.
    (b) The court must issue written findings of fact and conclusions of law regarding the issues submitted by the parties. The court must issue its writ of mandamus directing that the permit be issued and order other appropriate relief unless the sheriff establishes by clear and convincing evidence:
    (1) that the applicant is disqualified under the criteria described in subdivision 2, paragraph (b); or
    (2) that there exists a substantial likelihood that the applicant is a danger to self or the public if authorized to carry a pistol under a permit. Incidents of alleged criminal misconduct that are not investigated and documented may not be considered.
    (c) If an applicant is denied a permit on the grounds that the applicant is listed in the criminal gang investigative data system under section 299C.091, the person may challenge the denial, after disclosure under court supervision of the reason for that listing, based on grounds that the person:
    (1) was erroneously identified as a person in the data system;
    (2) was improperly included in the data system according to the criteria outlined in section 299C.091, subdivision 2, paragraph (b); or
    (3) has demonstrably withdrawn from the activities and associations that led to inclusion in the data system.
    (d) If the court grants a petition brought under paragraph (a), the court must award the applicant or permit holder reasonable costs and expenses including attorney fees.



    If your appeal is found in your favor, the sheriff gets to pay your expenses. You need to find out what the history has been of the District Court judge overturning the sheriff's office denials. That may also explain the delay in responding. Whoever is reviewing the application / denial may be reconsidering, as if your case if "iffy", they could have a judge bitch slapping them and that really smarts and isn't a good career building move. Plus, they have to answer to the sheriff WHY 3 grand went out to a citizen defense instead of to the annual pig roast and drunken brawl.

    How did the sheriff's department receive the denial appeal, did you get a receipt? Cops LOVE to play games.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Didn't get a receipt. Just tracked the envelope, and saw what day it arrived. It says they "must" reply with in 15 business days. But it's stupid because there is no "or else".

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    So I called the Hennepin county sherif this morning right when they opened. I told the guy what my situation was and gave him my reference number. He put me on hold for a minute or two, came back on the phone and said "it's in the mail today, and you shouldn't have any problem with it". I don't know if that means they mailed it out today or it's arriving today. I asked him about how it says they "must" reply to my appeal within 15 buisness days, and he just said it's more of a guideline. He said if they're late, they're late, we just TRY to get them back by day 15. Seems kind of discourteous to me but oh well. And as far as him saying "you shouldn't have any problem with it" is he talking about the result of the appeal maybe!?!? Trying not to get my hopes up too high. We will see when it comes in the next day or so. I will keep you guys posted. I truly appreciate all the help.

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    threatening to kill yourself and getting committed to a hospital involuntarily tends to make people question your suitability to KBA.

    call me crazy.

    ha-ha! look at that! i made a funny!

    but seriously, just follow up and plead your case. with your history you are basically left with hoping someone buys your story that this was "youthful indiscretion" and not some simmering mental illness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CT Barfly View Post
    threatening to kill yourself and getting committed to a hospital involuntarily tends to make people question your suitability to KBA.

    call me crazy.

    ha-ha! look at that! i made a funny!

    but seriously, just follow up and plead your case. with your history you are basically left with hoping someone buys your story that this was "youthful indiscretion" and not some simmering mental illness.
    The appeal has already been made, I'm just waiting to hear back from them. And seeing as those were the only two days in my life where anything like that has happened, I feel they will realize that. No criminal record. Just a bad weekend 8 years ago when I was a minor.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I have no problem with people doing that. Just don't make a mess and Will me their stereo equipment and we're good.

    (That was a joke).

    Good luck to the OP and stay out of trouble, bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CT Barfly View Post
    threatening to kill yourself and getting committed to a hospital involuntarily tends to make people question your suitability to KBA.

    call me crazy.

    ha-ha! look at that! i made a funny!

    but seriously, just follow up and plead your case. with your history you are basically left with hoping someone buys your story that this was "youthful indiscretion" and not some simmering mental illness.
    ??? uncool post

    Reading the OP's posting it appears as if he was not actually admitted into the hospital. If denied, a good one to appeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ??? uncool post

    Reading the OP's posting it appears as if he was not actually admitted into the hospital. If denied, a good one to appeal.
    Thank you very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdockter View Post
    Thank you very much.
    If I were you I would see if I could re-apply as opposed to responding to their 15 day deadline. All that you put before them maybe all that you can argue later.

    If the appeal process allows additional evidence to be presented beyond this 15 day time period in the next venue is the question.

    Then you could include case law concerning the matter as well as more information to be included in your application.

    You may be able to seek an extension of time to respond to allow you to present evidence and affidavits to support your application and issuance of a permit.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I wonder if the deputy would buy that excuse from a mundane.....looking at the law as a guideline.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I wonder if the deputy would buy that excuse from a mundane.....looking at the law as a guideline.
    What are you talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdockter View Post
    So I called the Hennepin county sherif [ ... ] he just said it's more of a guideline..
    Mundanes are the opposite of Lee Paige elites, the only ones professional enough to shoot themselves in public.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Mundanes are the opposite of Lee Paige elites, the only ones professional enough to shoot themselves in public.
    I don't get what you're saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Mundanes are the opposite of Lee Paige elites, the only ones professional enough to shoot themselves in public.
    I assume you're just trying to be rude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdockter View Post
    I assume you're just trying to be rude.
    LOL Actually I was trying to be helpful, but some - present company of course excepted - are beyond help.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdockter View Post
    I assume you're just trying to be rude.
    While you're waiting for the mail person to show up with that much anticipated envelope, invest the wait time in deepening your understanding. It won't be wasted time or effort.

    Mundanes = us peon sheep. The low class morons that government agents must herd and keep in line. The pawns in the game of life. The authorities would never accept such an explanation from a punk citizen / Mundane. Get it now?

    You've been gifted with the intellectual humor of some of the wittiest here. This may help 'splain:




    Now step behind a tree and pick the chips off'n your shoulders and come back over here by the campfire and have a seat. It'll be alright. Yer lookin' fer bad will where thar ain't any. Must be something in that lutefisk.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    [ ... ] Must be something in that lutefisk.
    Don't you be throwin' down on lutefisk untried! If you haven't had any good lutefisk, come on down for some of Grandma Gunnlauggson's, it literally melts in your mouth like jello. You don't even need to chew, just wash it down with some beer and go for more!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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