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Thread: Does anyone know

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Does anyone know

    Can any one tell me, when did Oklahoma originally LOSE the right to Open carry?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Am not aware that OC has been outlawed in Oklahoma - only that a permit is required.

    http://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    I think you'll find most of Oklahoma's gun control restrictions have roots in the Reconstruction Era Treaties beginning in 1875. Prior gun restrictions existed through the Second Seminole War Treaty. Remember, Oklahoma was Indian territory, some of it known as "no man's land" and was basically lawless. The Cherokee were the first to adopt restrictions on the carrying firearms in 1875, the Chickasaw adopted statutes in 1876 restricting firearms carry in some places. The Choctaw had restrictions on carrying, yet maintained they had the right to maintain possession of firearms in defense of self and nation. Enforcement was arbitrary.
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Am not aware that OC has been outlawed in Oklahoma - only that a permit is required.

    http://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html
    It was restricted until recently. Like the last year or so.
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  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    I think you'll find most of Oklahoma's gun control restrictions have roots in the Reconstruction Era Treaties beginning in 1875. Prior gun restrictions existed through the Second Seminole War Treaty. Remember, Oklahoma was Indian territory, some of it known as "no man's land" and was basically lawless. The Cherokee were the first to adopt restrictions on the carrying firearms in 1875, the Chickasaw adopted statutes in 1876 restricting firearms carry in some places. The Choctaw had restrictions on carrying, yet maintained they had the right to maintain possession of firearms in defense of self and nation. Enforcement was arbitrary.
    Is there any chance the laws were changed in the late 1960's, say AFTER Gov. Reagan signed a law in California that restricted open carry there, to unloaded firearms?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    It was restricted until recently. Like the last year or so.
    Misunderstood your original question.

    Thought you were implying that it was currently restricted - my bad.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Misunderstood your original question.

    Thought you were implying that it was currently restricted - my bad.
    No Problem. In addition to my first question, does anyone know, if Governor/President actively sought to quash legal open carry, other than the law he signed into effect in California? I've never heard of anything like this myself.
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Reagan signed the Mulford Act of 1967, a California law that banned the open carry of LOADED firearms. That's the only open carry restrictions I'm aware of that he pursued, and that, of course. was in response to the Black Panthers getting uppity and exercising their rights to self defense against the cops that were killing them like there was a bounty on them. Reagans fingerprints are found on other legislation that restricted / infringed on the citizen's RTKABA.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for in particular. Considering the time frame you are inquiring about, I'm thinking maybe what you are looking for might be in the OKLAHOMA FIREARMS ACT OF 1971.

    http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...ahoma-2010.pdf
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Reagan signed the Mulford Act of 1967, a California law that banned the open carry of LOADED firearms. That's the only open carry restrictions I'm aware of that he pursued, and that, of course. was in response to the Black Panthers getting uppity and exercising their rights to self defense against the cops that were killing them like there was a bounty on them. Reagans fingerprints are found on other legislation that restricted / infringed on the citizen's RTKABA.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for in particular. Considering the time frame you are inquiring about, I'm thinking maybe what you are looking for might be in the OKLAHOMA FIREARMS ACT OF 1971.

    http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...ahoma-2010.pdf
    The argument someone else is making is that following then Gov. Reagan's lead, Oklahoma banned open carry. So I guess the question is, was open carry legal before the OK firearms act of 1971, and was that law in any way inspired by CA's Mulford Act? I'm just trying to get some straight facts before I respond to someone else's position that Reagan was a big anti-OC supporter. I myself, do not recall him ever really mentioning the subject. Other than his coming out in support of limiting fully automatic weapons and, after he was out of public office, supporting the Brady Bill. I don't recall him being big on gun control.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    The argument someone else is making is that following then Gov. Reagan's lead, Oklahoma banned open carry. So I guess the question is, was open carry legal before the OK firearms act of 1971, and was that law in any way inspired by CA's Mulford Act? I'm just trying to get some straight facts before I respond to someone else's position that Reagan was a big anti-OC supporter. I myself, do not recall him ever really mentioning the subject. Other than his coming out in support of limiting fully automatic weapons and, after he was out of public office, supporting the Brady Bill. I don't recall him being big on gun control.
    "Someone else" has made a contention that is not a "common knowledge" or "easily located citation". I would respectfully ask that person to identify the source of their information so you can explore it more. No shame in admitting you don't know what you don't know. You may find the response is "well, I'm pretty sure that ......".

    Oklahoma became a state in 1907. In the grand scheme of things, that isn't all that long ago. And Oklahoma became a state during the heydey of Jim Crow. There was not a Territorial Constitution for the new state to adopt. The Constitution framers plagiarized the Missouri and Colorado Constitutions where their Jim Crow laws would benefit the desires of the whites to control blacks. And those pesky Natives. The Constitution recognized the RTKABA: “The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons” ......... With a catch.

    The Oklahoma Constitution gives the legislature the power to regulate the carrying of weapons without limitation. Along comes Oklahoma Supreme Court’s 1908 decision in ex parte Thomas. Mr. Thomas was arrested in Payne county for carrying a concealed handgun. His conviction was appealed to the State Supreme Court. In this case, the Court said that the state constitution does NOT guarantee the right of defense to an individual, totally ignoring the first half of Article 2, Section 26. They claimed that the right only applied to the militia. They went on to say that because handguns aren’t effective militia weapons they are not protected arms.

    Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals took this a step or two farther in their 1929 decision in the case Pierce v State. Mr. Pierce was arrested after a search warrant was executed on his house. He was suspected of bootlegging but no still was found. Having been ordered out of his house while the search was conducted, Mr. Pierce was standing in his yard with a Colt revolver in his belt. He was arrested for carrying an unconcealed handgun on his own property. During his appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeals, the Court stated that the Legislatures ability to regulate the carrying of weapons extends beyond public areas and onto private property. (Remember, the state constitution does not limit the Legislatures reach in regulating the carrying of weapons.) Furthermore, the Court asserted that the government “has power to not only prohibit the carrying of concealed or unconcealed [pistols or revolvers], but also has the power to even prohibit the ownership or possession of such arms.”

    The Oklahoma Supreme Court cited Thomas and Pierce as recently as 1998, meaning that it is established case-law.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 02-11-2014 at 10:43 PM.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Thank you.
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  12. #12
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    It all started.....

    Here is an excerpt from an article written by OK2A. While the article is about changing the OK constitution, it does give a bit of history.
    Another problem comes courtesy of the Oklahoma Supreme Court’s 1908 decision in ex parte Thomas. Mr. Thomas was arrested in Payne county for carrying a concealed handgun. His conviction was appealed to the State Supreme Court. In this case, the Court said that the state constitution does NOT guarantee the right of defense to an individual, totally ignoring the first half of Article 2, Section 26. They claimed that the right only applied to the militia. They went on to say that because handguns aren’t effective militia weapons they are not protected arms.

    The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals took this a step or two farther in their 1929 decision in the case Pierce v State. Mr. Pierce was arrested after a search warrant was executed on his house. He was suspected of bootlegging but no still was found. Having been ordered out of his house while the search was conducted, Mr. Pierce was standing in his yard with a Colt revolver in his belt. He was arrested for carrying an unconcealed handgun on his own property. During his appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeals, the Court stated that the Legislatures ability to regulate the carrying of weapons extends beyond public areas and onto private property. (Remember, the state constitution does not limit the Legislatures reach in regulating the carrying of weapons.) Furthermore, the Court asserted that the government “has power to not only prohibit the carrying of concealed or unconcealed [pistols or revolvers], but also has the power to even prohibit the ownership or possession of such arms.”
    Because of these, it has been illegal to carry a handgun in OK for a long time. Only recently (last 20 years) have Oklahomans been able to legally carry firearms again.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  13. #13
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Here is an excerpt from an article written by OK2A. While the article is about changing the OK constitution, it does give a bit of history.


    Because of these, it has been illegal to carry a handgun in OK for a long time. Only recently (last 20 years) have Oklahomans been able to legally carry firearms again.
    Here's what I'm getting as an argument from someone else:

    Anyone could open carry here when I was a kid. Also rifles were on racks across back windows of pick-ups. That ended with Reagan assault on Open Carry in California. Oklahoma in a few years followed suit, as did other states. No one even disputes this anymore.

    But a right to self-defense is a restricted right everywhere. Castle doctrine gave more rights of self-defense, and make my day even more rights.
    I grew up in Indiana, as far as I know, ALL carry there has been licensed for a very long time. Now I live in Michigan, open carry here has been legal for a VERY long time, without a license. Although, by state law, you have to have a license to carry IN your vehicle.

    Oklahoma history is a mystery to me. That's why I'm asking here.

    Thanks for all replies.
    Big Gay Al
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    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

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