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Thread: San Francisco concealed carry law struck down.

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    San Francisco concealed carry law struck down.


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    Bobby, the Ninth Circus sits in San Francisco. The decision may affect San Francisco

    ordinances but not for a while. That's not how case law works.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    My mistake. The court was in SF, but the decision was for San Diego county.

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    Regular Member Lasjayhawk's Avatar
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    This is a big deal for OC. Why? Simple the court ruled if you won't allow OC, you are going to have to shall issue CC permits.

    If you want to be anal about CC permits, you have to allow OC.
    I stopped stocking for the zombie apocalypse. I now stock for the liberal apocalypse.

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    This seemed pretty self evident after the Illinois ruling: no concealed carry and no open carry = no carry at all.

    Here's another analysis:
    http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-c...#axzz2tu15jxiI

    Will CA start issuing CC? Or will they just throw out AB1527 and AB144?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomGoober View Post
    This seemed pretty self evident after the Illinois ruling: no concealed carry and no open carry = no carry at all.

    Here's another analysis:
    http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-c...#axzz2tu15jxiI

    Will CA start issuing CC? Or will they just throw out AB1527 and AB144?
    They will do nothing and appeal or wait to be sued. So it's still a crap shoot.
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    Campaign Veteran Cavalryman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They will do nothing and appeal or wait to be sued. So it's still a crap shoot.
    Oddly enough, the Orange County sheriff almost immediately issued a notice that CC permit requests should simply list "personal protection" as the justification for the permit. She did say that if a higher court ruled against this decision or the full circuit court decides to hear the case she would hold all pending permit requests until they ruled, but the gist of the notice was that as of now she was going to approve requests on a "shall issue" basis. She has until now been very anti-CC, so I can only speculate that she plans to follow the law regardless of her personal opinion. Yes, that's a common practice among LEOs.
    Last edited by Cavalryman; 02-22-2014 at 03:44 PM.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Emily Miller writes that the Sheriff won't appeal the ruling (probably because the anti-gun folks know that they'd lose again, but it would have a wider application this time).

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...concealed-car/
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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Emily Miller writes that the Sheriff won't appeal the ruling (probably because the anti-gun folks know that they'd lose again, but it would have a wider application this time).

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...concealed-car/
    So basically based on their reasoning for not appealing, is that they don't want it to go to the USSC and risk it becoming a national thing where all "may issue" states are forced to become "shall issue". My biggest gripe is that California still refuses to honor out of state permit holders and they refuse to issue non-resident permits.

    I do honestly think that they should really do away with 2 specific things. #1 Do away with state level carry/concealed permits/licenses and make it a federal level license and #2 do away with state level driver's licenses and make those also federal level. And as an addition to the driver's license, do like Washington state does and make it so "enhanced licenses" can be issued so that you can easily cross the boarder to Canada or Mexico. I know that there are some fine details that need to be worked out for federal level licenses and such, but with proper negotiation, it's doable. Such as each state becomes "shall issue" but each state has the ability to limit open carry (for now and I know people here will disagree with this idea).

    just my $0.02
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 02-22-2014 at 06:22 PM.
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    So basically based on their reasoning for not appealing, is that they don't want it to go to the USSC and risk it becoming a national thing where all "may issue" states are forced to become "shall issue". My biggest gripe is that California still refuses to honor out of state permit holders and they refuse to issue non-resident permits.

    I do honestly think that they should really do away with 2 specific things. #1 Do away with state level carry/concealed permits/licenses and make it a federal level license and #2 do away with state level driver's licenses and make those also federal level. And as an addition to the driver's license, do like Washington state does and make it so "enhanced licenses" can be issued so that you can easily cross the boarder to Canada or Mexico. I know that there are some fine details that need to be worked out for federal level licenses and such, but with proper negotiation, it's doable. Such as each state becomes "shall issue" but each state has the ability to limit open carry (for now and I know people here will disagree with this idea).

    just my $0.02
    You are crazy,, or worse, to wish to federalize CC permits and DL's

    and on tops of that,,, you think states should be free to restrict Open Carry?


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    Progressive laws passed with the stroke of a pen are as easily later rescinded by an even more progressive executive by another stroke.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    You are crazy,, or worse, to wish to federalize CC permits and DL's

    and on tops of that,,, you think states should be free to restrict Open Carry?


    This is A United STATES of America!!!
    NOT A United FEDERALIST Conglomerate!!!
    really, it's not that hard to understand.

    I live in Washington state, I get issued my CPL in Washington state, I can then travel anywhere in the country and all states have to honor my CPL. Some states do not allow open carry at all. Some states allow open carry as long as you have a CPL or similar permit/license while yet other states do in fact allow open carry even without a license/permit. None of this would change except the fact that all states must honor the CPL issued by Washington state or any other state for that matter. The only thing that may be added to this would be a uniform process and requirements for obtaining a permit/license.

    As far as a driver's license, similar idea. If I live in Washington state but I move to another state, my driver's license would be honored till it expires and when it was time to renew, I wouldn't have to go through any further requirements to obtain a license in the new state other then the renewal requirements.

    Again, these are just ideas. It's just a matter of streamlining the whole system so that each state is forced to respect rights and no state can be more strict then any other state regarding fundamental rights such as the 2nd amendment.
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    The law is an ass that lawyers and paralegals ride to work
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The law is an ass that lawyers and paralegals ride to work

    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    really, it's not that hard to understand.

    I live in Washington state, I get issued my CPL in Washington state, I can then travel anywhere in the country and all states have to honor my CPL. Some states do not allow open carry at all. Some states allow open carry as long as you have a CPL or similar permit/license while yet other states do in fact allow open carry even without a license/permit. None of this would change except the fact that all states must honor the CPL issued by Washington state or any other state for that matter. The only thing that may be added to this would be a uniform process and requirements for obtaining a permit/license.

    As far as a driver's license, similar idea. If I live in Washington state but I move to another state, my driver's license would be honored till it expires and when it was time to renew, I wouldn't have to go through any further requirements to obtain a license in the new state other then the renewal requirements.

    Again, these are just ideas. It's just a matter of streamlining the whole system so that each state is forced to respect rights and no state can be more strict then any other state regarding fundamental rights such as the 2nd amendment.
    The issue isn't in the idea, but in the realistic application of said idea. Ignoring the desires of most for Constitutional Carry over Licensed Privileged Carry, you are wanting the Feds to force other states to honor said LPC Card. Well once they do that it is then that much easier for the Feds to try and "standardize" what is needed for LPC. From there they can then make it harder and harder for people to get an LPC Card, until it is realistically out of the reach of most citizens.

    Now this obviously isn't what you desire. But that is the road you tread by giving the Feds more power over these things. Sure, while people you agree with are in office (or those you think are scared to take up said issue) it might not seem like it could happen, but there's no telling when the "right" people might get elected for a repeat of 1993 to happen. At which point you have basically handed them this issue on a silver platter. Instead we should be working to return power to the People as opposed to giving more to the feds. A better way of applying your idea would be Constitutional Carry being honored across all of the US. This would both achieve your fundamental idea (being able to carry in any state) AND would return power to the People instead of giving it to the feds.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavalryman View Post
    She has until now been very anti-CC, so I can only speculate that she plans to follow the law regardless of her personal opinion. Yes, that's a common practice among LEOs.
    That's how any LEO should be isnt it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    The issue isn't in the idea, but in the realistic application of said idea. Ignoring the desires of most for Constitutional Carry over Licensed Privileged Carry, you are wanting the Feds to force other states to honor said LPC Card. Well once they do that it is then that much easier for the Feds to try and "standardize" what is needed for LPC. From there they can then make it harder and harder for people to get an LPC Card, until it is realistically out of the reach of most citizens.

    Now this obviously isn't what you desire. But that is the road you tread by giving the Feds more power over these things. Sure, while people you agree with are in office (or those you think are scared to take up said issue) it might not seem like it could happen, but there's no telling when the "right" people might get elected for a repeat of 1993 to happen. At which point you have basically handed them this issue on a silver platter. Instead we should be working to return power to the People as opposed to giving more to the feds. A better way of applying your idea would be Constitutional Carry being honored across all of the US. This would both achieve your fundamental idea (being able to carry in any state) AND would return power to the People instead of giving it to the feds.
    Well, there ya go. Ya done gone dunnit, used a logical fallacy to illustrate a point. The slippery slope fallacy. Ya give them a fedarl permit today, the next thing ya no, the feds are gunna mandate constitutional carry.....

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