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Thread: Shall Issue pistol permits for HI

  1. #1
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    Shall Issue pistol permits for HI

    Good news

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...a&goto=newpost

    You should apply as soon as possible before a stay or appeal.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-20-2014 at 07:05 AM. Reason: Fixed title
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  2. #2
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    Hawaii will have to be FORCED to go shall-issue. As long as HPD Police Chief Louis "no issue" Kealoha -- and his Drinking Buddy hippie Governor Abercrombie -- are against it, it ain't gonna happen. The SCOTUS is SUPPOSED to "correct" states that are unconstitutional -- it does NOTHING about HI, even though HI has been UNconstitutional since statehood (1959). I guess 55 years isn't enough time for the SCOTUS to have noticed.

    Even the average/na´ve/ignorant people of HI (mostly liberals as HI mainly Democrat) would probably be against it as that's what they're used to in that liberal/backwards state -- not being used to much in the way of CIVIL RIGHTS and certainly hardly any exercise of the 2nd Amendment/RKBA (except to keep a gun AT HOME but ONLY if it's registered with the police) -- and see "more guns on the street if we get shall-issue here" as something bad, and therefore something to avoid.

    On top of that, I've seen NO ONE in HI who has tried to get signatures on a petition to see -- one way or the other -- if the people of HI (meaning Oahu, as that is the main island, most populous and government seat) WOULD or WOULD NOT go for ANY kind of carry, let alone CC. Some say that the people of HI would NOT because they're mostly Asian, and THEY tend to be anti-gun due to their "culture" (yet they're supposed to be Americans). Others say it's all the liberal transplants from Kalifornia who have aided & abetted making HI just like the pathetic state they came from.

    It's probably both...

    HI has to be one of the WORST anti-gun/anti-2nd Amendment/RKBA/Self-Defense states there is (yet the rest of America hasn't noticed). On top of no OC/CC (because CC permits are never issued), a citizen of HI has NO (legal) way to carry past his/her front door. So how are they supposed to manage their personal protection when they go out to work, to school, etc.?

    IMO, in order to recognize/affirm the 2nd Amendment, RKBA and RIGHT to Self-Defense, a state MUST "allow" ONE form of carry: Either OC or CC. HI allows neither. Liberals there often cite their CC permitting law saying "HI state law DOES allow for CC permits" but they then fail to mention it's only on paper: No one gets a permit to CC so in reality, it doesn't exist! I've even seen HI listed on many charts/graphs as a "No OC, but CC is allowed" state, but that's erroneous, as NO CC PERMITS ARE ISSUED. "May Issue" should be extinct by now...but it isn't, and HI is a (if not THE top example) of may-issue abuse. And the rest America doesn't know anything about HI except (1) it's a place to go for honeymoons or (2) vacations. They don't have a clue how anti-gun and unconstitutional HI really is.

    What a sorry state...and the clueless people there (very apparently) like it just the way it is.

    Sad...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-17-2014 at 11:55 AM.

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    Or you could merely inform the fool that's not how case law works. I doubt anyone in Hawaii is losing sleep for a decision in a San Diego County case.

    Someone in Hawaii will have to gain standing for an appeal and challenge based on the Peruta decision.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Or you could merely inform the fool that's not how case law works. I doubt anyone in Hawaii is losing sleep for a decision in a San Diego County case.

    Someone in Hawaii will have to gain standing for an appeal and challenge based on the Peruta decision.
    That's why people should apply now before a stay or appeal so they have standing.
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    N,

    What "fool" are you talking about?

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Baker v. Kealoha is already at CA9, which challenges HPD's carry licensing policies.

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    Chris Baker has been in the forefront of making changes in HI, and he's posted here (some time back) about what he's doing. Can't say I know of anyone else there in HI who is doing much (my apologies to anyone who IS doing something, but I don't know/haven't heard about it).

    As for Chris, however, I thought his lawsuit was either dismissed (on a technicality) or the court refused to hear it quite a while ago. Didn't know it was still alive.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    Chris Baker has been in the forefront of making changes in HI, and he's posted here (some time back) about what he's doing. Can't say I know of anyone else there in HI who is doing much (my apologies to anyone who IS doing something, but I don't know/haven't heard about it).

    As for Chris, however, I thought his lawsuit was either dismissed (on a technicality) or the court refused to hear it quite a while ago. Didn't know it was still alive.
    It was heard by the same panel which heard Richards & Peruta.

  9. #9
    Regular Member z28power's Avatar
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    According to the court docket, we're missing some updates on Baker v. Kealoha et al

    Here's the status of the docket. Should have had some activity back in January of this year.

    2013-07-17 70 0 EP: Further Status Conference held on 7/17/2013. Further Status Conference Re: Stay Pending Appeal set for 1/13/2014 at 09:00 AM before JUDGE KEVIN S.C. CHANG. (Court Reporter Courtroom 5-No Record) (JUDGE KEVIN S.C. CHANG)(wnn, )CERTIFICATE OF SERVICEParticipants registered to receive electronic notifications received this document electronically at the e-mail address listed on the Notice of Electronic Filing (NEF). Participants not registered to receive electronic notifications were served by first class mail on the date of this docket entry (Entered: 07/17/2013)
    2013-07-17 71 0 EP: Typo corrected. Re 70 Status Conference, Set Hearings. (Court Reporter Courtroom 5-No Record) (JUDGE KEVIN S.C. CHANG)(wnn, )CERTIFICATE OF SERVICEParticipants registered to receive electronic notifications received this document electronically at the e-mail address listed on the Notice of Electronic Filing (NEF). Participants not registered to receive electronic notifications were served by first class mail on the date of this docket entry (Entered: 07/17/2013)

    Most of it's boring, but there was supposed to be a conference regarding the stay pending appeal - and that was being held up pending the District Court decision on Peruta, I believe. But I see no further update to this docket, so I'm not sure what the status is.

    Here's the URL for the Baker case if anybody else is better at interpreting than I.
    http://ia700709.us.archive.org/0/ite...53.docket.html
    Last edited by z28power; 03-11-2014 at 02:39 PM. Reason: formatting

  10. #10
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    I hope you guys get a ruling that throws out your "no issue system". A federal judge ruled that Illinois' Unlawful Use of Weapons Law, which outlawed carry, was unconstitutional and directed the legislature to pass carry legislation. Last year at the end of the spring legislative session we got a Shall issue concealed carry law passed. The first of the licenses went out this month for applications taken from instructors applying 12/18/13 and non-instructors applications started this month. Mine went in on 1/5 and it was approved 3/10 so I expect it in the mail this week.

    I hope you continue to fight in the legislature and in the courts. In Illinois we did both, it was about a 10 year battle. Don't give up. I know a lot of people said "Illinois will never get carry!" Or Illinois will get carry after they are packing heat on the trains in Tokyo!" Nay sayers "Time to eat crow!"
    Last edited by junglebob; 03-11-2014 at 11:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    I hope you guys get a ruling that throws out your "no issue system". A federal judge ruled that Illinois' Unlawful Use of Weapons Law, which outlawed carry, was unconstitutional and directed the legislature to pass carry legislation. Last year at the end of the spring legislative session we got a Shall issue concealed carry law passed. The first of the licenses went out this month for applications taken from instructors applying 12/18/13 and non-instructors applications started this month. Mine went in on 1/5 and it was approved 3/10 so I expect it in the mail this week.

    I hope you continue to fight in the legislature and in the courts. In Illinois we did both, it was about a 10 year battle. Don't give up. I know a lot of people said "Illinois will never get carry!" Or Illinois will get carry after they are packing heat on the trains in Tokyo!" Nay sayers "Time to eat crow!"
    If IL did nothing ... carry would have been constitutional carry .. carry however you want, no permit, etc...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If IL did nothing ... carry would have been constitutional carry .. carry however you want, no permit, etc...
    The downside would be there would be no preemption and local ordinances could prohibit carry of any kind.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    The downside would be there would be no preemption and local ordinances could prohibit carry of any kind.
    Really?

    Why wouldn't the local rules be subject to the same court ruling? Your angle is that the localities could prohibit, under some rationale that the state didn't think of, what the state couldn't??

  14. #14
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Nice!

    9th reversed its previous finding that Baker wasn't injured by "may issue" based on is own ruling on Peruta. Effectively making Hawaii "shall issue".

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/213562890/...aloha-Decesion

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...l-issue-state/
    Last edited by mobiushky; 03-20-2014 at 09:56 PM. Reason: people have ocd

  15. #15
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    RE: comments on this legal development from Abercrombie (Governor), Louie (State Attorney General) or Keahola (Honolulu Police Chief): Do I hear crickets chirping since that news of 2 weeks ago or have they already made statements and I missed them?

    A quick search (what little you can do without a subscription) of the Honolulu Star Advertiser turns up nothing on it...even in the Editorial sections.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 04-08-2014 at 01:57 AM.

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