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Thread: Western Maryland’ Secession Movement Growing

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    Western Maryland’ Secession Movement Growing

    (CBS, WJZ-TV Mary Bubala February 11, 2014)

    A tale of two Marylands: Western Maryland and the rest of the state. Fed up with high taxes and gun control, some people want to break away and go it alone. Mary Bubala explains why they’re trying to form their own state.

    There’s a storm brewing over the beautiful mountains and valleys of Western Maryland. More and more people in those five counties say Governor Martin O’Malley is out of touch and they want to break away from the rest of the state.

    “I can’t imagine Maryland without Western Maryland,” said Governor Martin O’Malley. “Do you actually care about your citizens?” questioned Rob Parr.

    “I certainly don’t live in a bubble and I go around the state all the time,” O’Malley said.
    “Why don’t you want to listen to people that you don’t agree with?” said Suzanne Olden.
    “I spend my whole day listening,” O’Malley said.

    Scott Strzelczyk, Suzanne Olden and Rob Parr are part of a growing group that wants to rip Maryland in two, creating the nation’s 51st state. They met recently at O’Lordan’s Irish Pub in Westminster to tell WJZ they’re fed up with politics as usual in Annapolis.

    “If your vote doesn’t count, it’s the same as having no vote. We’re not free,” Strzelczyk said. “We’re doing exactly what they did in 1776. I just simply want to live as a free human being with limited government intrusion in my life and that’s really why I do this.”

    They claim Maryland’s lawmakers don’t listen to their concerns so they want to form a state more in sync with their beliefs.
    “I’ve gone down to Annapolis. I’ve complained; I’ve been in rallies,” said Parr. “It all falls on deaf ears.”

    “The attitude is sit down, shut up, we don’t care what you think,” said Olden.
    “We are enslaved to this government in Maryland that we want nothing to do with. All we simply want to do is peacefully leave,” Strzelczyk said.

    “It’s a free country. People are allowed to express those opinions but we’re one Maryland and we’re stronger together,” O’Malley said.

    Maryland isn’t the only state where frustrated citizens want to break away. It’s happening in Colorado, California, Arizona and Michigan.

    “Republican counties are becoming more emphatically Republican; Democratic counties are becoming more emphatically Democratic, which means the divisions between Republican and Democratic counties are becoming all the more sharp,” said Johns Hopkins University professor Matthew Crenson.

    Now the movement here is picking up steam. More than 8,000 people like the Facebook page for the Western Maryland Initiative and more than a thousand have signed petitions–but could they really form a new state?

    “This is a peaceful way to resolve irreconcilable differences,” Strzelczyk said. “Lots of people out there feel like there is no recourse, there is no hope.” But they know their chances of success are slim to none.

    “Maryland’s my home. I was born here. It’s my home,” Olden said. “If we leave and other people come in our place, buy our homes or whatever the case, these problems still exist,” Strzelczyk said.

    “A diversity of perspectives and a diversity of people. That’s what makes us one Maryland,” O’Malley said.

    “Why would anyone want to deny us our right of self-determination when that’s the basis of how all our governments are formed in this country? Why would anyone want to deny us that?” Strzelczyk said.

    The Western Maryland Initiative is still working on a name for its proposed state. So far, the choices include Liberty, Antietam and Augusta.

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/0...eir-own-state/

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    O'Malley listens to EVERYone.... so long as they live in Baltimore City, Prince Georges County or Montgomery County, the only political subdivisions needed (out of a total of 23) to win statewide office and all populated by Democrats. This is not a new phenomenon. When Schaeffer was Governor, he often referred to Maryland's Eastern Shore as "that sh!t-hole on the other side of the Bay Bridge." So long as those who vote for a living instead of working for a living dominate the state elections, Western Maryland and the Eastern Shore counties will continue to be virtually disenfranchised.
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    I doubt that this would ever happen ... would like to see it though !

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    I would, too: Can't visit the "Old Homestead" in MD (Eastern Shore) due to MD's anti-gun laws & cops who just MAY stop a car with a Free State (in my case, TX or CO) license plate "just in case" there MIGHT be a gun aboard (forget ALSO having a pro-gun/NRA sticker clearly visible). Even if a gun on board is locked up in a safe the conversation would be "interesting," I'm sure.

    What a sorry liberal state (maybe 2nd to Hawaii on the pathetic anti-gun/2nd Amendment/RKBA scale), but once again it shows that Americans do not AT ALL share the SAME civil rights -- as ALL Americans should -- as it all depends on what STATE they happen to live in. Either America is a "Union" or it isn't. It isn't.

    Either the Bill of Rights applies to ALL Americans or it doesn't. It doesn't.


    My best wishes for the success of the "Maryland Secession Movement."

    It should happen in more states (CO, CA presently)...and maybe will as America in general goes further down the toilet (at an ever increasing rate of decline).
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-17-2014 at 11:58 AM.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    I would, too: Can't visit the "Old Homestead" in MD (Eastern Shore) due to MD's anti-gun laws & cops who just MAY stop a car with a Free State (in my case, TX or CO) license plate "just in case" there MIGHT be a gun aboard (forget ALSO having a pro-gun/NRA sticker clearly visible) -- even if it's locked up the "conversation" would be interesting.

    What a sorry liberal state (maybe 2nd to Hawaii on the pathetic anti-gun/2nd Amendment/RKBA scale), but once again it shows that Americans do not AT ALL share the SAME civil rights -- as ALL Americans should -- as it all depends on what STATE they happen to live in. Either America is a "Union" or it isn't.

    It isn't.

    My best wishes for the success of the "Maryland Secession Movement."

    It should happen in more states (CO, CA presently)...and maybe will as America in general goes further down the toilet (at an ever increasing rate of decline).
    As a former Marylander, I understand your angst ... but: While we are a "Union" that has core responsibilities, e.g., national defense, we are a union of sovereign states who are supposed to have the right to determine how their citizens will be treated (so long as their state laws pass Constitutional muster). We, as a free people have the right to "vote with our feet" and move to a state that treats its citizens in they way we want to be treated. It's one of the main reasons why I am a proud citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia instead of remaining a Marylander. Yes, I have to disarm every time I cross the river into Maryland or DC and I risk being stopped by overly-aggressive LEOs because of my very visible gun-friendly decals.

    I realize that we should not have to move in order to perfect our God-given rights, but that's the current situation. To propose succession is, IMO, a fool's errand that has little chance of occurring, and working to change the state in the face of an overwhelming Democrat machine that has existed for decades is a Sisyphusian task. At some point in pushing that rock up the hill it will roll back and crush you.

    Still, if you won't move to a freer state then all you can do is to work hard to effect change. Or, like Roscoe Bartlett, go "off grid" and survive on your own.
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    One cannot be discriminated against because of where one lives. The notion that one "can move with their feet" is a merit-less claim when one is examining a natural right. Those folks in MD want to split because of the state's actions to limit a right that cannot be limited by the government and they do not want to wait for courts or other measures that should even need to be taken to address this right and others that are being trampled upon.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    One cannot be discriminated against because of where one lives. The notion that one "can move with their feet" is a merit-less claim when one is examining a natural right. Those folks in MD want to split because of the state's actions to limit a right that cannot be limited by the government and they do not want to wait for courts or other measures that should even need to be taken to address this right and others that are being trampled upon.
    You seem to believe (inanely) that they will achieve their ends more quickly by proposing succession than waiting "for courts or other measures." Most of us live in the real world and accept the wise council of St. Francis of Assisi.
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    James,

    Residents shouldn't have to leave their own states because they are less free than in some other state. Something's terribly wrong with that. The Bill of Rights is for EVERY American, not just some in selected states.

    So if one can't "work within the system" -- and it seems such work is futile in MD (and in other sorry states such as HI) -- then what else is left to do except secede? Or perhaps mass Civil Disobedience re: increasingly anti-gun legislation/laws...if there are enough people (high numbers to make it work) in MD to do something like that, and/or enough with the fortitude to do so (probably even less people).

    The other alternative is much more disturbing: Violence or even Civil War down the pike when "enough is enough and we're damn angry about it." Our government should not be "provoking it's own people to anger" (to paraphrase the Bible, if you will).

    Whether it'll happen or not doesn't matter as it shouldn't be even a possibility -- not in America. But it looks like some kind of drastic action is in order, especially when that's all there is left other than going along with something repugnant AND Anti-American as well (as we've seen happen in other areas such as that "*** rights" BS).

    "Most of us live in the real world and accept the wise council of St. Francis of Assisi." -- James

    Where have you been for the last few decades, in a mountain top cave? No we don't: Christians are an ever decreasing and marginalized minority nowadays. REAL ones, that is. Most who SAY they are Christians are only posers (including Obama). Otherwise, America wouldn't be in the state of decay (and the global joke and embarrassment) it is. And it's only going to get worse.

    Thanks, I'm done now and won't "debate" this further...unlike Eye95, "moving on" means moving on (I don't come back a few post later like an ass and continue).

    Regards...
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-14-2014 at 10:55 PM. Reason: Mod edited - rule #6

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    James,

    Residents shouldn't have to leave their own states because they are less free than in some other state. Something's terribly wrong with that. The Bill of Rights is for EVERY American, not just some in selected states.

    So if one can't "work within the system" -- and it seems such work is futile in MD (and in other sorry states such as HI) -- then what else is left to do except secede? Or perhaps mass Civil Disobedience re: increasingly anti-gun legislation/laws...if there are enough people (high numbers to make it work) in MD to do something like that, and/or enough with the fortitude to do so (probably even less people).

    The other alternative is much more disturbing: Violence or even Civil War down the pike when "enough is enough and we're damn angry about it." Our government should not be "provoking it's own people to anger" (to paraphrase the Bible, if you will).

    Whether it'll happen or not doesn't matter as it shouldn't be even a possibility -- not in America. But it looks like some kind of drastic action is in order, especially when that's all there is left other than going along with something repugnant AND Anti-American as well (as we've seen happen in other areas such as that "gay rights" BS).

    "Most of us live in the real world and accept the wise council of St. Francis of Assisi." -- James

    Where have you been for the last few decades, in a mountain top cave? No we don't: Christians are an ever decreasing and marginalized minority nowadays. REAL ones, that is. Most who SAY they are Christians are only posers (including Obama). Otherwise, America wouldn't be in the state of decay (and the global joke and embarrassment) it is. And it's only going to get worse.

    Thanks, I'm done now and won't "debate" this further...unlike Eye95, "moving on" means moving on (I don't come back a few post later like an ass and continue).

    Regards...
    Glad that you're moving on and that you won't debate this further, because I find your comments less than useless and your insult regretful.

    Succession is a near impossibility and armed insurrection is a non-starter. Citizen nullification is a possibility (see the situation in CT for an example), but it requires that some number of citizens be willing to go to jail for their actions before the citizenry reacts, and in states like Maryland where the liberals are in overwhelming voting control, getting laws changed through electing correct-minded politicians is near impossible. Court actions are possible as we have seen in the Woolard case, but that will most likely have to be decided by SCOTUS assuming they will even take the case and even if they do, it could be years away. What's left for people who want to exercise their rights? Move. I agree that it shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    What's left for people who want to exercise their rights? Move. I agree that it shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is.
    I agree that's what some people think.

    But I'm not moving because of a bunch of commies ....

    They want to have a night of the long knifes?

    So, James...if that's your true viewpoint, when are you moving? If not, then you embrace the antis?

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    I like the idea - if people's differences of opinion are that strong and they want to govern themselves their own way I say more power to them. What gets me is why should they ask for Annapolis' permission? If they are that fed up with the way their state gov't is treating them then just do it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I agree that's what some people think.

    But I'm not moving because of a bunch of commies ....

    They want to have a night of the long knifes?

    So, James...if that's your true viewpoint, when are you moving? If not, then you embrace the antis?
    I have long ago done so, moving from TPR of Maryland, my birth and long-residence state, to the Commonwealth of Virginia, where 2nd Amendment rights are guaranteed by the Commonwealth's Constitution. Even so, I have family, business interests and property back across the river and am actively involved in working to effect change in Maryland.

    Your inane attempt at a false dichotomy -- that people who don't move embrace the antis -- is laughably sad. I know many back in Maryland who are actively working hard, politically, to make a difference against overwhelming liberal Democrat odds, and I support their efforts from here in Virginia in much the same way that I work to defend the Commonwealth's Constitution. My income taxes, sales taxes and spending support the Commonwealth, however, and do not flow into the coffers of the liberal Maryland government.

    If one cannot continue to believe that their efforts will effect a change in the state's governing body, then to stay and continue to contribute to their tax base is contradictory. Maryland is already seeing an exodus -- its population is shrinking -- and at some point the liberal welfare programs will, in Ms. Thatcher's words, "run out of other people's money."
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    You seem to believe (inanely) that they will achieve their ends more quickly by proposing succession than waiting "for courts or other measures." Most of us live in the real world and accept the wise council of St. Francis of Assisi.
    Thankfully, this country's founders did not subscribe to this thinking.
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    A name for a new western Maryland state? Um, how about West Maryland. Not flashy like Jefferson, in California, but it worked for West Virginia.

    Looking at a topographical map of Maryland, they are almost a different country right now. Heck, they're almost WestPencilTucky as it is now. it should not be to difficult, or expensive to physically separate Maryland into two states at Hancock. About two miles from border to border. River on the south flank, a creek east of the town. PA to the north, WV to the south.

    G. Washington could not ask for a better defensive position.

    Derision and insults are not what meaningful discussions are made of. If the citizens work to establish West Maryland, good on them. Some disagree it seems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    A name for a new western Maryland state? Um, how about West Maryland. Not flashy like Jefferson, in California, but it worked for West Virginia.
    I like Free Maryland better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Thankfully, this country's founders did not subscribe to this thinking.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...ens_%281946%29

    Nor others after them ... when there is no longer a feeling of a democracy ... time to kick ass

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...ens_%281946%29

    Nor others after them ... when there is no longer a feeling of a democracy ... time to kick ass
    Caution. Do not recommend following this line of thinking/posting here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Caution. Do not recommend following this line of thinking/posting here.

    Forum Rules
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    Giving a little history lesson. Did they break the law in Athens? Whats your take Grapeshot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Giving a little history lesson. Did they break the law in Athens? Whats your take Grapeshot?
    You need to ask more precisely, there were two sides, the citizens and the Sheriffs, and somebody did.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    You need to ask more precisely, there were two sides, the citizens and the Sheriffs, and somebody did.
    lol good point .. lets see what Grape's take on it - if the citizens violated any law....

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Giving a little history lesson. Did they break the law in Athens? Whats your take Grapeshot?
    I think that is off topic for this thread.

    The history is there for anyone to read and study on there own. Any effort to introduce conversation on the subject will be closely monitored. A breach of the Forum Rules in this area would be a serious infraction.
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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Idealy, eastern MD would be very aligned to the western part, and leave the citified liberals stuck in the middle. Where being left alone and being able to survive unimpeeded would be an assett. Hmmm, Use the Balt beltway as a dividing line maybe? All south of the northern portions of the beltway can suck eggs? LOL..
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    Maryland (not to mention many other states) needs its own version of the Electoral College to ensure that high population centers don't dictate policy for everybody else. In the meantime those 20 counties are screwed. It would of course require an amendment to the state constitution, which would be hard to get past the voters of those 3 remaining counties. I'd say pursue both secession and an amendment. Perhaps the prospect of secession would drive the amendment as a compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    Maryland (not to mention many other states) needs its own version of the Electoral College to ensure that high population centers don't dictate policy for everybody else. In the meantime those 20 counties are screwed. It would of course require an amendment to the state constitution, which would be hard to get past the voters of those 3 remaining counties. I'd say pursue both secession and an amendment. Perhaps the prospect of secession would drive the amendment as a compromise.
    As much as I like this idea I believe the courts would not allow it. They have ruled that state legislatures must be strictly one man one vote[1], therefore I believe no system such as an electoral college, or even one designed after the US Senate, would be allowed. State legislatures have essentially become two House of Representatives of different sizes.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._Sims

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    Quote Originally Posted by optiksguy View Post
    As much as I like this idea I believe the courts would not allow it. They have ruled that state legislatures must be strictly one man one vote[1], therefore I believe no system such as an electoral college, or even one designed after the US Senate, would be allowed. State legislatures have essentially become two House of Representatives of different sizes.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._Sims
    Hmmm, interesting...if true then Maryland is truly screwed. Secession would be the only option in that case.
    Last edited by OC4me; 02-27-2014 at 02:26 PM.

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