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Thread: Criminals Target OC'ers

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    Regular Member De5115's Avatar
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    Criminals Target OC'ers

    Does anyone have any links to when an OCer was targeted by criminals?

    I can't think of any instances and my quick google search didn't find any either. Anti OCers like to say that OC makes you a target. I have not seen any data to support that. Perhaps it has happened and if so I wonder how often it occurs. Then you have to look on the flip side. How would you determine how many victimizations, assaults, muggings, robberies, or other crimes were deterred or stopped because of OCers.

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    The flip side. 2.5 Million defensive gun uses per year. Gary Kleck

    A concealed gun cannot be used as pre-emptive defense.

    Gary Kleck & Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," 86 J. Crim. L. & Criminology 150 (1995)
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The lack of stats itself sort of puts to lie the claim of the anti's.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The lack of stats itself sort of puts to lie the claim of the anti's.
    When did that ever change anything?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    When did that ever change anything?

    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I read of one case maybe about 5 years ago. If I recall the guy was targeted by a couple of neighbor teens. The guy would walk around the block in the evening. I think the teens took the gun and ran, but were caught later.

    That is the only case I ever recall in the past 10 years. However, there could be more.

    The conceal carry group believing that concealment has a tactical advantage is blowing smoke. Bad guys have tunnel vision when they commence their misdeed.
    Last edited by color of law; 02-16-2014 at 10:44 AM.

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    Wouldn't the MSM fall all over themselves reporting about a person who was attacked/assaulted successfully while OCing?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I read of one case maybe about 5 years ago. If I recall the guy was targeted by a couple of neighbor teens. The guy would walk around the block in the evening. I think the teens took the gun and ran, but were caught later.

    That is the only case I ever recall in the past 10 years. However, there could be more.

    The conceal carry group believing that concealment has a tactical advantage is blowing smoke. Bad guys have tunnel vision when they commence their misdeed.
    This has been discussed ad nasium on OCDO.

    The case you note was debunked as a staged event. Point of fact, we have never found one such event that withstood close scrutiny.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I stopped having this discussion outside of OCDO. The old saying "You can lead a idiot to knowledge, but you can't make him learn" comes to mind.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I stopped having this discussion outside of OCDO. The old saying "You can lead a idiot to knowledge, but you can't make him learn" comes to mind.
    That and "a lie told often enough....."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This has been discussed ad nasium on OCDO.

    The case you note was debunked as a staged event. Point of fact, we have never found one such event that withstood close scrutiny.
    How about this one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewoo...ficer_shooting.

    I think a point could be made that if a person is sufficiently crazy, they will attack anyone, regardless of whether or not their intended victim is armed or not.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    How about this one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewoo...ficer_shooting.

    I think a point could be made that if a person is sufficiently crazy, they will attack anyone, regardless of whether or not their intended victim is armed or not.
    No cigar. The OP is about a gun grab/snatch, not about an execution style attack.

    The original "challange" was made many years ago:
    • Show us one (1) bonified, tested and vented, cite wherein a LAC had his/her handgun snatched as a primary target by a BG anywhere in the USA in modern times - LEOs, security officers, and military excluded.
    • Might it happen some day? Undoubtedly, but when it does the numerical ratio will look something like .000001% when compared to the total OC history. One might have better odds winning the lottery 3 times.....in a row.


    Your link does remind us of the reason we carry for protection though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    How about this one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewoo...ficer_shooting.

    I think a point could be made that if a person is sufficiently crazy, they will attack anyone, regardless of whether or not their intended victim is armed or not.
    I think a point could be made that aggressive agents of the state make themselves a target for people who happen to be both unhinged and victims of the state, regardless of whether their intended victim is armed or not.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This has been discussed ad nasium on OCDO.

    The case you note was debunked as a staged event. Point of fact, we have never found one such event that withstood close scrutiny.
    Grapeshot, thank you for setting my palpitating heart at ease.

    Because of such rumor I have been contemplating for years of giving up open carrying.





    NOT!!!!!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Grapeshot, thank you for setting my palpitating heart at ease.

    Because of such rumor I have been contemplating for years of giving up open carrying.


    NOT!!!!!
    Would be happy to give any and all of your guns a safe haven until you make up your mind.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    I use both CC and OC. I think my only frustration is hearing that "you will be targeted first" every freaking time from CCers. If that's the case, then why do stores hire an armed guard that OCs? the answer is simple and one we already know... OC IS a deterrent. Draw is quicker, smoother and safer. However, people are scared of it because we have been told it's bad and only LEOs should do it for many years.


    Now, to the OPs original question...... yes here is a case: http://freakoutnation.com/2013/09/20...d-at-gunpoint/

    yet, the next listing on google is two OCers that DETER a robbery. http://www.examiner.com/article/open...bbery-kennesaw


    I notice that when i OC in downtown memphis, less than reputable looking individuals not only steer clear of me but try to avoid me at all costs while normally dressed people dont even notice.
    Last edited by Kopis; 02-27-2014 at 09:51 AM.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    --snipped--
    Now, to the OPs original question...... yes here is a case: http://freakoutnation.com/2013/09/20...d-at-gunpoint/
    The OCer was apparently not targeted for or because of his gun. He was a victim of an armed robbery and gave up some situational awareness obviously.

    The president of Wisconsin Carry, Nik Clark, says 100′s of thousands of people open carry and he’s never heard of anything like this.

    I do not have the time right now to research this to see what follow up information might be available. There was one similar a while back that was found to be a staged event.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Did I miss it, or is it a article with no named victim? The author of the piece is clearly anti.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member De5115's Avatar
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    Good articles. Keep them coming.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Did I miss it, or is it a article with no named victim? The author of the piece is clearly anti.
    Victim was not identified in this one, though I believe other, earlier articles did - can't find them now.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Criminals target CCers far more often than they target OCers.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Criminals target CCers far more often than they target OCers.
    Gee wize, ya think? Wonder why that is?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    What about the Richmond, VA case of a couple years ago?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    What about the Richmond, VA case of a couple years ago?
    Very familiar with that. He definitely was not targeted for his gun.

    Blaine Tyler's unsecured gun fell out of his holster in a scuffle with Toby Smith Jr. Smith picked up the gun and ran towards the back of the store. Tyler gave pursuit and was shot for his efforts.
    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/te...a0a2b26ba.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Good point about situational awareness. It's probably the single most important thing you can do.

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