Dunn trial

j4l · Feb 16, 2014

Cant believe there's zero discussion of this circus of a case in here, at all.
It's an important one, on many, many levels for those who carry- from the incident itself, to how the shooter handled (or didnt handle) the aftermath, to the level of sheer incompetence of the Sheriff's Office's "investigation" of the incident, and the handling/processing of the crime scene, to how well Corey can once again hinge almost an entire case on an over-charge, and the hopes that enough gullable sheep would buy into an emotional/racially-charged case-rather than providing facts, and plugging gaping holes in stories, to how a judge can throw out over a dozen potential verdicts/outcomes for the jury to choose from-nearly dead-locking a case in the process....

For those who somehow missed this one-IN a nutshell:
Altercation begins in a gas station parking lot over how loud some black gangsta-wannabes (4 of them) in an SUV are playing their music, by a white guy. Word are exchanged, and at some point (claims the white guy/defendant) a gun is seen, or -a gesture by one of the wannabes to indicate they are reaching for one- and the white guy draws and opens fire.
The suv pulls out, he fires some more shots, and the suv leaves the immediate area, going -not to a hospital 3 miles down the road, or to notify police, but to a parking lot next-door. There, it stops, the occupants get out for a moment, then back in, then return to the scene of the shooting. (leaving open the possibility that the gun Dunn says he saw may have been ditched, at this time)
In the meantime, Dunn-the shooter- waits for his girl to come out of the station, get in the car, and they basically drive on home, without calling 911 or the police.

Of the SUV, 1 person is dead, 1 or 2 others wounded. Police arrive ask what happened, and they give the story that the white guy-Dunn- complained about their music being loud, and started shooting them....

Cops take that story at face-value. They at least search the car the kids are in, finding no gun-(imagine that...) and the investigation-for lack of a better term- ends.
The police are told the kids left, went around the corner, and came back, but the police decline to ask why, what did they do over there, or to process the area they went to as part of the crime scene.
4 days later, after hearing Dunn's claim of a gun being seen, THEN they go back and look at a contaminated/cold crime scene area, and big surprise-=find no gun.

The trial itself becomes a big joke. With Corey putting a case before a judge without ever having filled in that gap as to what took place when the kids left, and came back.. But, being sheep, the jury comes back -after 4 days of deliberations with 2nd degree attempted murder x 3 counts, plus 1 count of firing into an occupied vehicle. Not satisfied with that sentence, the usual suspects in the usual communities hit the streets, throw a tantrum, and march on Corey's office, demanding her resignation....

CT Barfly · Feb 16, 2014

j4l said:
Cant believe there's zero discussion of this circus of a case in here, at all.
It's an important one, on many, many levels for those who carry- from the incident itself, to how the shooter handled (or didnt handle) the aftermath, to the level of sheer incompetence of the Sheriff's Office's "investigation" of the incident, and the handling/processing of the crime scene, to how well Corey can once again hinge almost an entire case on an over-charge, and the hopes that enough gullable sheep would buy into an emotional/racially-charged case-rather than providing facts, and plugging gaping holes in stories, to how a judge can throw out over a dozen potential verdicts/outcomes for the jury to choose from-nearly dead-locking a case in the process....

For those who somehow missed this one-IN a nutshell:
Altercation begins in a gas station parking lot over how loud some black gangsta-wannabes (4 of them) in an SUV are playing their music, by a white guy. Word are exchanged, and at some point (claims the white guy/defendant) a gun is seen, or -a gesture by one of the wannabes to indicate they are reaching for one- and the white guy draws and opens fire.
The suv pulls out, he fires some more shots, and the suv leaves the immediate area, going -not to a hospital 3 miles down the road, or to notify police, but to a parking lot next-door. There, it stops, the occupants get out for a moment, then back in, then return to the scene of the shooting. (leaving open the possibility that the gun Dunn says he saw may have been ditched, at this time)
In the meantime, Dunn-the shooter- waits for his girl to come out of the station, get in the car, and they basically drive on home, without calling 911 or the police.

Of the SUV, 1 person is dead, 1 or 2 others wounded. Police arrive ask what happened, and they give the story that the white guy-Dunn- complained about their music being loud, and started shooting them.... Cops take that story at face-value. They at least search the car the kids are in, finding no gun-(imagine that...) and the investigation-for lack of a better term- ends.
The police are told the kids left, went around the corner, and came back, but the police decline to ask why, what did they do over there, or to process the area they went to as part of the crime scene.
4 days later, after hearing Dunn's claim of a gun being seen, THEN they go back and look at a contaminated/cold crime scene area, and big surprise-=find no gun.

The trial itself becomes a big joke. With Corey putting a case before a judge without ever having filled in that gap as to what took place when the kids left, and came back.. But, being sheep, the jury comes back -after 4 days of deliberations with 2nd degree attempted murder x 3 counts, plus 1 count of firing into an occupied vehicle. Not satisfied with that sentence, the usual suspects in the usual communities hit the streets, throw a tantrum, and march on Corey's office, demanding her resignation....

if mr. dunn had a noise complaint, he should have called the police.

after being involved in a shooting, he should have called police.

just because someone carries doesn't mean they are in the right when a shooting occurs.

are you trolling?

j4l · Feb 16, 2014

Now, forgetting all the nonsense debates about coulda/shoulda/woulda avoided the altercation to begin with, and assuming there's merit to Dunn's claims, let's put ourselves in his shoes for a moment- in his claimed situation:
One of the occupants of the vehicle (at least one, but likely more) is shouting he's going to kill you- and either produces a gun (shotgun was claimed in this case) or make a motion indicating he's going to do so- do you :

1) Stand there and wait to see if he does, in fact, bring a gun to bear before responding in kind

2) Stand there and wait until the gun is pointed at you from -call it 4-6 feet away- and wait for it to be fired at you, before trying to respond with a load of buckshot tearing your chest-cavity to shreds.

3) Try- as many who've been debating the case have idiotically suggested- to pull out your cell phone, call 911, and hope the cops arrive in time to save you, before the buckshot or slug enters your chest.And/or try to get back in your car and simply drive away in the .24 seconds before he pulls the trigger...

4) Pull your pistol, and begin sending lead-injections in the direction of the threat.

Now, assuming you chose the correct answer (#4), and you are now firing at the threat, do you fire, and continue firing as much as needed to suppress or end that threat? Or do you:

1) Fire one shot, and hope a .380 can do the needed deed, and re-holster your sidearm (yes folks, someone actually suggested that very course of action in the debates of the case).

2) Fire 2 shots, because anything more than that would indicate that you are a blood-thirsty vigilante.

Now, during the course of having chosen the correct answer (#4, for our slow-learning types out there), the vehicle goes into reverse, and begins pulling away. Do you :

1) Cease fire, because there is no more threat, and they cant possibly attempt to run you down with the SUV, or simply re-locate to a better position from which to engage you.

2) Fire 1 or 2 more shots while shouting "Take that, sucka!" and hope it all ends there..

3) Fire to attempt to disable the driver and/or vehicle to prevent being run-down or fired upon from another position, with the SUV used by the combatants as cover?

j4l · Feb 16, 2014

"are you trolling? "

Not at all. Im asking otherwise intelligent folks to consider the actual facts, and realities of the case, vs. the hypotheticals and the endless debate of how either party should have handled the situation vs. the nonsense propaganda story that was put out since the night of the incident.

Primus · Feb 16, 2014

Its called.... PID.... you don't shoot at a vehicle that's leaving because someone in it said they are going to kill you. Especially if you know there are multiple people in it.

As previously said... you definitely don't get involved into a shooting then not bother calling police.

If correct... he had several chances to disengage and leave the area.

This is a case of what NOT to do with your gun.

I'll look for a cite since you didnt bother putting one just your version of events. If I recall correctly he shot like 7 or 8 times and he engaged like 2 or 3 separate times. To include when the vehicle was driving away. No good.

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CT Barfly · Feb 16, 2014

j4l said:
Now, forgetting all the nonsense debates about coulda/shoulda/woulda avoided the altercation to begin with, and assuming there's merit to Dunn's claims, let's put ourselves in his shoes for a moment- in his claimed situation:
One of the occupants of the vehicle (at least one, but likely more) is shouting he's going to kill you- and either produces a gun (shotgun was claimed in this case) or make a motion indicating he's going to do so- do you :

1) Stand there and wait to see if he does, in fact, bring a gun to bear before responding in kind

2) Stand there and wait until the gun is pointed at you from -call it 4-6 feet away- and wait for it to be fired at you, before trying to respond with a load of buckshot tearing your chest-cavity to shreds.

3) Try- as many who've been debating the case have idiotically suggested- to pull out your cell phone, call 911, and hope the cops arrive in time to save you, before the buckshot or slug enters your chest.And/or try to get back in your car and simply drive away in the .24 seconds before he pulls the trigger...

4) Pull your pistol, and begin sending lead-injections in the direction of the threat.

Now, assuming you chose the correct answer (#4), and you are now firing at the threat, do you fire, and continue firing as much as needed to suppress or end that threat? Or do you:

1) Fire one shot, and hope a .380 can do the needed deed, and re-holster your sidearm (yes folks, someone actually suggested that very course of action in the debates of the case).

2) Fire 2 shots, because anything more than that would indicate that you are a blood-thirsty vigilante.

Now, during the course of having chosen the correct answer (#4, for our slow-learning types out there), the vehicle goes into reverse, and begins pulling away. Do you :

1) Cease fire, because there is no more threat, and they cant possibly attempt to run you down with the SUV, or simply re-locate to a better position from which to engage you.

2) Fire 1 or 2 more shots while shouting "Take that, sucka!" and hope it all ends there..

3) Fire to attempt to disable the driver and/or vehicle to prevent being run-down or fired upon from another position, with the SUV used by the combatants as cover?

What the hell are you talking about?

Of course Dunn's story makes sense if you assume it is true...it was his self-defense case at trial.

The fact of the matter is that his mouth got him into this situation and he ended up shooting his way out. He should not be carrying a firearm.

The fact that he did not contact police tells me all I need to know. A good self-defense shoot doesn't require you to act like a murderer and fail to report discharged rounds and dead bodies.

solus · Feb 16, 2014

first let's clear the air a moment..

1. the idiot was at a wedding reception for his son all afternoon - inebriated? to the best of my knowledge this aspect wasn't addressed during the trial.
2. the idiot initiated the confrontation! INITIATED, started it.
3. he was not armed when he initiated the confrontation but had to go back and get his firearm out of the vehicle's glove box!
4. he shot wildly into the vehicle instead of towards a specific target! that shows a clear intent of self defence huh!
5. the DumbS... left the scene after the shooting!

BTW i missed any specific reference or comment the victims' vehicle was moving away from the idiot? especially since the shots went in low.

you can debate the merits of this homicide all you want. it has been decided by a jury of his peers that he is a complete idiot and i am sure his village will miss him.

oh, and he gave his son a great wedding present huh!!

the gene pool has been cleansed IAW the law of natural selection.

ipse

j4l · Feb 16, 2014

solus said:
first let's clear the air a moment..

1. the idiot was at a wedding reception for his son all afternoon - inebriated? to the best of my knowledge this aspect wasn't addressed during the trial.
2. the idiot initiated the confrontation! INITIATED, started it.
3. he was not armed when he initiated the confrontation but had to go back and get his firearm out of the vehicle's glove box!
4. he shot wildly into the vehicle instead of towards a specific target! that shows a clear intent of self defence huh!
5. the DumbS... left the scene after the shooting!

BTW i missed any specific reference or comment the victims' vehicle was moving away from the idiot? especially since the shots went in low.

you can debate the merits of this homicide all you want. it has been decided by a jury of his peers that he is a complete idiot and i am sure his village will miss him.

oh, and he gave his son a great wedding present huh!!

the gene pool has been cleansed IAW the law of natural selection.

ipse

facepallm... I said forget the nonsense about how he ended up in the situation, (supposedly), and how he botched the hell out of the aftermath.That stuff is a given, and I dont disagree-both sides were complete idiots in this mess. All that crap has been beaten to death in the last week or so.

Focus on the shooting scenario itself- THE SCENARIO. Not the sensationalized nonsense leading up to it, or the follow-up. Disregarding all that crap entirely, if you find your self in a parking lot, parked side-side next to another vehicle, with 4 occupants, at least one of whom presents a gun and makes threats, and you have to draw and fire- and during the course of that shooting the vehicle is put in motion. How would you have done it differently, given the same situation? You vs. 4, at least one armed, in a vehicle.

CT Barfly · Feb 16, 2014

j4l said:
facepallm... I said forget the nonsense about how he ended up in the situation, (supposedly), and how he botched the hell out of the aftermath.That stuff is a given, and I dont disagree-both sides were complete idiots in this mess. All that crap has been beaten to death in the last week or so.

Focus on the shooting scenario itself- THE SCENARIO. Not the sensationalized nonsense leading up to it, or the follow-up. Disregarding all that crap entirely, if you find your self in a parking lot, parked side-side next to another vehicle, with 4 occupants, at least one of whom presents a gun and makes threats, and you have to draw and fire- and during the course of that shooting the vehicle is put in motion. How would you have done it differently, given the same situation? You vs. 4, at least one armed, in a vehicle.

what about the gas pedal?

like james yeager says, "get off the X."

Remember the rules of gunfighting?

1. don't get in a gunfight.
2. have a gun.
3. don't get shot (RUN!!!! MOVE!!!! DISTANCE!!! FIND COVER!!! FIND CONCEALMENT!!!)
4. make sure you hit the person shooting at you.

see? discharging rounds is #4 on the list...meaning that by the time you're blasting away, your other options have to be GONE.

if you see a gun, or think one is going to be pointed at you, try to make that as difficult as possible...first by movement, then by directing your fire. maybe you grab the barrel, hit/kick the other guy, etc...do whatever you can to not get shot, THEN start shooting. even criminals can get a lucky shot if you hang around in front of them long enough without making their shot more difficult.

Primus · Feb 16, 2014

CT Barfly said:
what about the gas pedal?

like james yeager says, "get off the X."

Remember the rules of gunfighting?

1. don't get in a gunfight.
2. have a gun.
3. don't get shot (RUN!!!! MOVE!!!! DISTANCE!!! FIND COVER!!! FIND CONCEALMENT!!!)
4. make sure you hit the person shooting at you.

see? discharging rounds is #4 on the list...meaning that by the time you're blasting away, your other options have to be GONE.

if you see a gun, or think one is going to be pointed at you, try to make that as difficult as possible...first by movement, then by directing your fire. maybe you grab the barrel, hit/kick the other guy, etc...do whatever you can to not get shot, THEN start shooting. even criminals can get a lucky shot if you hang around in front of them long enough without making their shot more difficult.

Well said.

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solus · Feb 16, 2014

j4l said:
facepallm... I said forget the nonsense about how he ended up in the situation, (supposedly), and how he botched the hell out of the aftermath.That stuff is a given, and I dont disagree-both sides were complete idiots in this mess. All that crap has been beaten to death in the last week or so.

Focus on the shooting scenario itself- THE SCENARIO. Not the sensationalized nonsense leading up to it, or the follow-up. Disregarding all that crap entirely, if you find your self in a parking lot, parked side-side next to another vehicle, with 4 occupants, at least one of whom presents a gun and makes threats, and you have to draw and fire- and during the course of that shooting the vehicle is put in motion. How would you have done it differently, given the same situation? You vs. 4, at least one armed, in a vehicle.

truly, truly, truly unbelievable...sensationalized nonsense? really!!

the idiot started it, the idiot found a gun, the idiot shot into a vehicle committed murder, the idiot left, and upon capture the idiot said he thought he saw a 12 or 20 gauge to cover his butt! there is no what if scenario. there is no doing it differently!

CT said it quite succinctly...do not get into a gun fight ! period, end of story.

you want to play what ifs, imagine some village in FL is quietly lamenting the loss of their idiot, maybe two if this 'what if' nonsense continues this way!

ipse

notalawyer · Feb 16, 2014

We cannot discount the action leading up to the event, they are critical.

1. Don't get into a shouting match with idiots at a gas station.

2a) Don't tell someone you going to kill them or actually pull a gun on someone. They might just freak out and shoot you.
But refer back to #1 and we will never be in this position.
2b) Don't pull a gun and shoot someone because they yell at you they are going to kill you unless it's a reasonable reliable threat.
But refer back to #1 and we will never be in this position.

3a) Don't run and hide evidence of your crime (if any.) It makes you look guilty. Well, wait that is exactly what criminals do.
But refer back to #2 and we will never be in this position.
3b) Don't leave the scene of a defensive shooting if the other party has already left. It makes you look guilty.
But refer back to #2 and we will never be in this position.

4) Call 911 immediately after the shooting - when it is safe. This allows LEO to perform a proper investigation.
But refer to #1 and #2 and we will never be in this position.

5)....no this should actually be #1 = DO NOT TALK TO LEO UNLESS YOUR ATTORNEY IS SITTING NEXT TO YOU!
But refer to #1, #2, #3, and #4 and we will never be in this position.

solus · Feb 16, 2014

notalawyer said:
We cannot discount the action leading up to the event, they are critical.

1. Don't get into a shouting match with idiots at a gas station.

2a) Don't tell someone you going to kill them or actually pull a gun on someone. They might just freak out and shoot you.
But refer back to #1 and we will never be in this position.
2b) Don't pull a gun and shoot someone because they yell at you they are going to kill you unless it's a reasonable reliable threat.
But refer back to #1 and we will never be in this position.

3a) Don't run and hide evidence of your crime (if any.) It makes you look guilty. Well, wait that is exactly what criminals do.
But refer back to #2 and we will never be in this position.
3b) Don't leave the scene of a defensive shooting if the other party has already left. It makes you look guilty.
But refer back to #2 and we will never be in this position.

4) Call 911 immediately after the shooting - when it is safe. This allows LEO to perform a proper investigation.
But refer to #1 and #2 and we will never be in this position.

5)....no this should actually be #1 = DO NOT TALK TO LEO UNLESS YOUR ATTORNEY IS SITTING NEXT TO YOU!
But refer to #1, #2, #3, and #4 and we will never be in this position.

against my better judgement...WELL SAID!

ipse

davidmcbeth · Feb 16, 2014

What the facts ARE and what is shown in court to the jury is generally 2 different things.

So, I would need to see a transcript of the trial. Not all facts are brought out at trial.

notalawyer · Feb 16, 2014

davidmcbeth said:
What the facts ARE and what is shown in court to the jury is generally 2 different things.

So, I would need to see a transcript of the trial. Not all facts are brought out at trial.

But those are the only facts that count - i.e. the only ones the jury gets to hear.

j4l · Feb 16, 2014

notalawyer said:
But those are the only facts that count - i.e. the only ones the jury gets to hear.

And again, for the incredibly slow-witted. Im not talking about the coulda/shoulda of how that idiot got into the situation, or how he handled the aftermath, all that crap is a given. We already know it, its moot. Im not talking about him, or his actions, but you, me or any other carrier who could find himself in a situation whether we chose to or not. *and , for the record, it was announced tonight that the case is being submitted for a re-trial.*

The shooting itself-given the scenario above.

And the gas pedal? really? The guy wasnt IN his own car, he was standing beside the driver's side of his car, in a dispute with 4 persons in the car parked next to him, on the passenger side. How much distance do you think we're talking about? And, if-as he claims- a gun was presented, do you really think he would have time/space to run very far before being shot in the back? Or to have time to open the door, get in , and drive off? Now,if you are in such a position- and the opponent is not giving you an option to disengage, or run, or get in the car and drive off- how do you feel you would handle it.

notalawyer · Feb 16, 2014

j4l said:
And again, for the incredibly slow-witted. Im not talking about the coulda/shoulda of how that idiot got into the situation, or how he handled the aftermath, all that crap is a given. We already know it, its moot. Im not talking about him, or his actions, but you, me or any other carrier who could find himself in a situation whether we chose to or not. *and , for the record, it was announced tonight that the case is being submitted for a re-trial.*

The shooting itself-given the scenario above.

And the gas pedal? really? The guy wasnt IN his own car, he was standing beside the driver's side of his car, in a dispute with 4 persons in the car parked next to him, on the passenger side. How much distance do you think we're talking about? And, if-as he claims- a gun was presented, do you really think he would have time/space to run very far before being shot in the back? Or to have time to open the door, get in , and drive off? Now,if you are in such a position- and the opponent is not giving you an option to disengage, or run, or get in the car and drive off- how do you feel you would handle it.

My post was self explanatory to those without reading comprehension issues.

solus · Feb 16, 2014

j4l said:
And again, for the incredibly slow-witted. Im not talking about the coulda/shoulda of how that idiot got into the situation, or how he handled the aftermath, all that crap is a given. We already know it, its moot. Im not talking about him, or his actions, but you, me or any other carrier who could find himself in a situation whether we chose to or not. *and , for the record, it was announced tonight that the case is being submitted for a re-trial.*

The shooting itself-given the scenario above.

And the gas pedal? really? The guy wasnt IN his own car, he was standing beside the driver's side of his car, in a dispute with 4 persons in the car parked next to him, on the passenger side. How much distance do you think we're talking about? And, if-as he claims- a gun was presented, do you really think he would have time/space to run very far before being shot in the back? Or to have time to open the door, get in , and drive off? Now,if you are in such a position- and the opponent is not giving you an option to disengage, or run, or get in the car and drive off- how do you feel you would handle it.

sorry guess you were too slow witted to grasp the concept...your village wants you back...need bus fare?

now go sit by yourself and discuss all the possible scenarios you can come up with in order of relevance, let us know when you are done.

ipse

Kopis · Feb 17, 2014

None of us were there. I read the kids left then came back on one other site so they may very well have dumped a shotty somewhere around the corner, however, had Dunn stuck around, he could have told the officers what he witnessed. From what little i know, he was sitting in a car, why didn't he just leave? his behavior of leaving the scene after a shooting is very disturbing. It just goes to show you the great responsibility you have of carrying a firearm.

arentol · Feb 17, 2014

He didn't leave because he was waiting for a female companion who was in the store.

As to his actions.... Don't initiate confrontations while armed. Don't shoot at a fleeing vehicle. Don't leave the scene of a defensive shooting unless it is still not safe. Call the police as soon as possible after a defensive shooting.

As to it being a good shoot.... It wasn't. There is no evidence to support Dunn's statement that his life was in danger. There might have been if he had stayed nearby and called the police. However, he would still be on the hook for shooting at the fleeing vehicle even if a gun had been found. So by his own admission it was a bad shoot.

You can't fix stupid.

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