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Thread: No Firearms Sign at Lime Kiln Trail in Granite Falls

  1. #1
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    No Firearms Sign at Lime Kiln Trail in Granite Falls

    Hey guys, did some hiking in the rain today and on the way out I noticed the park rules on the bulletin board. The sign clearly say "Unlawful to possess or discharge firearms". What do you think? Illegal? I think it is but I wanted your opinion first before I call and raise a stink about it.

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    Last edited by bebop4one; 02-17-2014 at 01:31 AM.
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Raise a stink. The sign a bogus.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  3. #3
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Ok so there's a number at the bottom (425) 388-6600. Anyone know the RCW I can site when I try and convince them to take that sign down?
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Simple, State Preemption.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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  5. #5
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Found it!

    ORDINANCE NO. 10-016
    RELATING TO FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS
    IN COUNTY PARKS, PROHIBITING DISCHARGE OF
    FIREARMS, AMENDING SCC 22.16.090, ETC. - 1
    1 Adopted: April 21, 2010
    2 Effective: May 15, 2010
    3
    4 SNOHOMISH COUNTY COUNCIL
    5 Snohomish County, Washington
    6
    7 ORDINANCE NO. 10-016
    8
    9 RELATING TO FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS IN COUNTY PARKS,
    10 PROHIBITING DISCHARGE OF FIREARMS, AMENDING SCC 22.16.090,
    11 AND ADDING A NEW SECTION
    12
    13 WHEREAS, the Washington State Legislature declared in RCW 9.41.290 that the
    14 State of Washington fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation
    15 within the boundaries of the State, including the registration, licensing, possession,
    16 purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms; and
    17
    18 WHEREAS, in a formal legal opinion (AGO 2008 No. 8) the Attorney General of
    19 the State of Washington declared that RCW 9.41.290 preempts a city’s authority to
    20 enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned
    21 facilities; and
    22
    23 WHEREAS, the King County Superior Court recently held that city authority to
    24 regulate possession of firearms in city parks and recreation facilities during public use of
    25 those facilities is preempted by state law and, on that basis, invalidated a Seattle rule
    26 prohibiting possession of firearms in city parks; and
    27
    28 WHEREAS, there is a substantial likelihood that, if challenged, SCC 22.16.090
    29 would be found by a court to violate RCW 9.41.290 insofar as it prohibits the possession
    30 of firearms in county parks;
    31
    32 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED:
    33
    34 Section 1. Snohomish County Code Section 22.16.090, last amended by
    35 Amended Ordinance No. 98-076 on August 19, 1998, is amended to read:
    36
    37 22.16.090 Weapons and fireworks.
    38 (1) No person shall possess ((or discharge)) any ((firearm)) crossbow,
    39 bow and arrow, air or gas weapon, slingshot, fireworks or explosive in any county
    40 park except at times and in areas specifically designated by the parks division
    41 and posted for such use. No person shall discharge a crossbow, bow and arrow,
    42 air or gas weapon, slingshot, fireworks or explosive in, into, or across any county
    ORDINANCE NO. 10-016
    RELATING TO FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS
    IN COUNTY PARKS, PROHIBITING DISCHARGE OF
    FIREARMS, AMENDING SCC 22.16.090, ETC. - 2
    1 park except at times and in areas specifically designated by the parks division
    2 and posted for such use.
    3 (2) This section is based, in part, on the apparent preemptive effect of
    4 RCW 9.41.290 on county authority to prohibit possession of firearms in county
    5 parks.
    6
    7 Section 2. A new section is added to Chapter 22.16 of the Snohomish County
    8 Code to read:
    9
    10 22.16.095 Discharge of firearms.
    11 (1) No person shall discharge a firearm in, into, or across any county park
    12 except at times and in areas specifically designated by the parks division and
    13 posted for such use.
    14 (2) This section shall not be construed to abridge the right of individual
    15 citizens to bear arms in defense of self or others as provided in RCW 9.41.300
    16 and article I, section 24, of the state constitution.
    17
    18 PASSED this 21st day of April, 2010.
    19
    20 SNOHOMISH COUNTY COUNCIL
    21 Snohomish County, Washington
    22
    23 Dave Gossett
    24 Chairperson
    25
    26 ATTEST:
    27
    28 Barbara Sikorski
    29 Asst. Clerk of the Council
    30
    31 (X) APPROVED
    32 ( ) EMERGENCY
    33 ( ) VETOED
    34
    35 DATE: May 5, 2010
    36
    37 Brian Parry
    38 For County Executive
    39
    40 ATTEST:
    41
    42 Cora Palmer
    43
    Last edited by bebop4one; 02-17-2014 at 12:48 AM.
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

  6. #6
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    I promise I'll stop posting on my own thread here but I did go ahead and call the phone number for the Snohomish County Parks and Recreation office and let them know the issue. It'll definitely be closed for Presidents Day tomorrow so hopefully I'll hear something on Tuesday. I'll keep this thread updated with the results.

    EDIT: I also submitted a request via the Parks and Recreation website. Let's see what they do.

    "Your message was successfully sent to Snohomish County. Your confirmation # is 64304. You have selected email as your preferred method of contact. A county representative will contact you as soon as possible."
    Last edited by bebop4one; 02-17-2014 at 02:02 AM.
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

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    Snohomish County responded favorably to my pointing out some bad signs a few months back. I haven't been back out to see if they took action as they said they would, but they do know the law and should respond positively to the request for a sign change.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Snohomish County did well in a timely manner when I requested they remove the signs at the Evergreen State Fair Grounds in Monroe a couple years back. I would expect a similar experience for you.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    So I just got off the phone with Rich Patton of Snohomish County Parks and Rec. Just like some of you guys were saying he was quick to react. I told him I had a picture of the sign and he nicely asked if I could email it to him along with my request. He said that there are a lot of places these signs were put up and every once in a while another pops up. He's going to email me back when they take care of it. Sounds like they want to be in compliance just as much as we want those signs gone.

    Hello Rich,

    My name is (bebop4one) and we just spoke on the phone. Here is the photograph of the sign I took. I was concerned about the 5th bullet point that says "Unlawful to possess or discharge firearms or explosives. (SCC 22.16.090)". I would really appreciate it if you could email me back and let me know if you can get the verbiage changed.

    Thank you,
    (bebop4one)
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

  10. #10
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    From Rich (Park Operations Supervisor)

    (bebop4one),

    Thank you for the photo. It helps greatly. I will have the Rangers correct the informational rule notice. I will follow up with you when this is completed.

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

    Rich Patton,
    Park Operations Supervisor

    Snohomish County Parks & Recreation
    6705 Puget Park Drive Snohomish WA 98296
    6: (425) 388-6618 Cell: (425) 508-6614
    www.snoco.org / /: Rich.Patton@snoco.org


    Nice guy. I included his contact info just in case anyone wanted to bring any other signs to his attention.
    Last edited by bebop4one; 02-18-2014 at 07:53 PM.
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Great job!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Great job!
    Thank you! It feels good to take action. I'm going to look at the park rules at every place I hike from now on. Who knows? I may catch a few more. Of course, I'll save my happy dance for when I have confirmation that this sign has been replaced.
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

  13. #13
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Got the good news that the sign was changed today. One less of these eye sores giving folks the wrong information.

    Hello (bebop4one),

    The park rules document has been replaced at the Lime Kiln trail head bulletin board.
    Thanks again for bringing this to our attention.

    Rich Patton,
    Park Operations Supervisor
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

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    So, it's legal to shoot there then?

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock21owner View Post
    So, it's legal to shoot there then?
    No

    It's legal to carry

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    Quote Originally Posted by glock21owner View Post
    So, it's legal to shoot there then?
    Probably not.

    State law allows cities to ban discharge of firearms where and when there is a reasonable concern for the safety of persons or property. I have never been to the park and have no details on it but my best guess tells me that a ban on the discharge of firearms there would certainly be reasonable.

    The sign change is to reflect that the ban on the carry of firearms has been overturned and/or repealed.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  17. #17
    Regular Member bebop4one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    Probably not.

    State law allows cities to ban discharge of firearms where and when there is a reasonable concern for the safety of persons or property. I have never been to the park and have no details on it but my best guess tells me that a ban on the discharge of firearms there would certainly be reasonable.

    The sign change is to reflect that the ban on the carry of firearms has been overturned and/or repealed.
    Yes sir, you got it. I believe that discharge of a firearm is only acceptable when doing so in the act of self defense. It's the "possession" part that was changed. Possession of a firearm on park property isn't a problem and the sign now makes no mention of it. Of course I didn't actually ask what the verbiage was changed to. I'll go out there some time in the next few weeks just to check it out.
    "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
    - Clint Eastwood

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