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No Firearms Sign at Lime Kiln Trail in Granite Falls

bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
Hey guys, did some hiking in the rain today and on the way out I noticed the park rules on the bulletin board. The sign clearly say "Unlawful to possess or discharge firearms". What do you think? Illegal? I think it is but I wanted your opinion first before I call and raise a stink about it.

image.jpg
 
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bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
Ok so there's a number at the bottom (425) 388-6600. Anyone know the RCW I can site when I try and convince them to take that sign down?
 

bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
Found it!

ORDINANCE NO. 10-016
RELATING TO FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS
IN COUNTY PARKS, PROHIBITING DISCHARGE OF
FIREARMS, AMENDING SCC 22.16.090, ETC. - 1
1 Adopted: April 21, 2010
2 Effective: May 15, 2010
3
4 SNOHOMISH COUNTY COUNCIL
5 Snohomish County, Washington
6
7 ORDINANCE NO. 10-016
8
9 RELATING TO FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS IN COUNTY PARKS,
10 PROHIBITING DISCHARGE OF FIREARMS, AMENDING SCC 22.16.090,
11 AND ADDING A NEW SECTION
12
13 WHEREAS, the Washington State Legislature declared in RCW 9.41.290 that the
14 State of Washington fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation
15 within the boundaries of the State, including the registration, licensing, possession,
16 purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms; and
17
18 WHEREAS, in a formal legal opinion (AGO 2008 No. 8) the Attorney General of
19 the State of Washington declared that RCW 9.41.290 preempts a city’s authority to
20 enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned
21 facilities; and
22
23 WHEREAS, the King County Superior Court recently held that city authority to
24 regulate possession of firearms in city parks and recreation facilities during public use of
25 those facilities is preempted by state law and, on that basis, invalidated a Seattle rule
26 prohibiting possession of firearms in city parks; and
27
28 WHEREAS, there is a substantial likelihood that, if challenged, SCC 22.16.090
29 would be found by a court to violate RCW 9.41.290 insofar as it prohibits the possession
30 of firearms in county parks;
31
32 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED:
33
34 Section 1. Snohomish County Code Section 22.16.090, last amended by
35 Amended Ordinance No. 98-076 on August 19, 1998, is amended to read:
36
37 22.16.090 Weapons and fireworks.
38 (1) No person shall possess ((or discharge)) any ((firearm)) crossbow,
39 bow and arrow, air or gas weapon, slingshot, fireworks or explosive in any county
40 park except at times and in areas specifically designated by the parks division
41 and posted for such use. No person shall discharge a crossbow, bow and arrow,
42 air or gas weapon, slingshot, fireworks or explosive in, into, or across any county
ORDINANCE NO. 10-016
RELATING TO FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS
IN COUNTY PARKS, PROHIBITING DISCHARGE OF
FIREARMS, AMENDING SCC 22.16.090, ETC. - 2
1 park except at times and in areas specifically designated by the parks division
2 and posted for such use.
3 (2) This section is based, in part, on the apparent preemptive effect of
4 RCW 9.41.290 on county authority to prohibit possession of firearms in county
5 parks.
6
7 Section 2. A new section is added to Chapter 22.16 of the Snohomish County
8 Code to read:
9
10 22.16.095 Discharge of firearms.
11 (1) No person shall discharge a firearm in, into, or across any county park
12 except at times and in areas specifically designated by the parks division and
13 posted for such use.
14 (2) This section shall not be construed to abridge the right of individual
15 citizens to bear arms in defense of self or others as provided in RCW 9.41.300
16 and article I, section 24, of the state constitution.
17
18 PASSED this 21st day of April, 2010.
19
20 SNOHOMISH COUNTY COUNCIL
21 Snohomish County, Washington
22
23 Dave Gossett
24 Chairperson
25
26 ATTEST:
27
28 Barbara Sikorski
29 Asst. Clerk of the Council
30
31 (X) APPROVED
32 ( ) EMERGENCY
33 ( ) VETOED
34
35 DATE: May 5, 2010
36
37 Brian Parry
38 For County Executive
39
40 ATTEST:
41
42 Cora Palmer
43
 
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bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
I promise I'll stop posting on my own thread here but I did go ahead and call the phone number for the Snohomish County Parks and Recreation office and let them know the issue. It'll definitely be closed for Presidents Day tomorrow so hopefully I'll hear something on Tuesday. I'll keep this thread updated with the results.

EDIT: I also submitted a request via the Parks and Recreation website. Let's see what they do.

"Your message was successfully sent to Snohomish County. Your confirmation # is 64304. You have selected email as your preferred method of contact. A county representative will contact you as soon as possible."
 
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jfslicer

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2013
Messages
72
Location
Lake Stevens
Snohomish County responded favorably to my pointing out some bad signs a few months back. I haven't been back out to see if they took action as they said they would, but they do know the law and should respond positively to the request for a sign change.
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Snohomish County did well in a timely manner when I requested they remove the signs at the Evergreen State Fair Grounds in Monroe a couple years back. I would expect a similar experience for you.
 

bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
So I just got off the phone with Rich Patton of Snohomish County Parks and Rec. Just like some of you guys were saying he was quick to react. I told him I had a picture of the sign and he nicely asked if I could email it to him along with my request. He said that there are a lot of places these signs were put up and every once in a while another pops up. He's going to email me back when they take care of it. Sounds like they want to be in compliance just as much as we want those signs gone.

Hello Rich,

My name is (bebop4one) and we just spoke on the phone. Here is the photograph of the sign I took. I was concerned about the 5th bullet point that says "Unlawful to possess or discharge firearms or explosives. (SCC 22.16.090)". I would really appreciate it if you could email me back and let me know if you can get the verbiage changed.

Thank you,
(bebop4one)
 

bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
From Rich (Park Operations Supervisor)

(bebop4one),

Thank you for the photo. It helps greatly. I will have the Rangers correct the informational rule notice. I will follow up with you when this is completed.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Rich Patton,
Park Operations Supervisor

Snohomish County Parks & Recreation
6705 Puget Park Drive Snohomish WA 98296
6: (425) 388-6618 Cell: (425) 508-6614
www.snoco.org / /: Rich.Patton@snoco.org


Nice guy. I included his contact info just in case anyone wanted to bring any other signs to his attention.
 
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bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
Got the good news that the sign was changed today. One less of these eye sores giving folks the wrong information.

Hello (bebop4one),

The park rules document has been replaced at the Lime Kiln trail head bulletin board.
Thanks again for bringing this to our attention.

Rich Patton,
Park Operations Supervisor
 

END_THE_FED

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
925
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
So, it's legal to shoot there then?

Probably not.

State law allows cities to ban discharge of firearms where and when there is a reasonable concern for the safety of persons or property. I have never been to the park and have no details on it but my best guess tells me that a ban on the discharge of firearms there would certainly be reasonable.

The sign change is to reflect that the ban on the carry of firearms has been overturned and/or repealed.
 

bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
Probably not.

State law allows cities to ban discharge of firearms where and when there is a reasonable concern for the safety of persons or property. I have never been to the park and have no details on it but my best guess tells me that a ban on the discharge of firearms there would certainly be reasonable.

The sign change is to reflect that the ban on the carry of firearms has been overturned and/or repealed.

Yes sir, you got it. I believe that discharge of a firearm is only acceptable when doing so in the act of self defense. It's the "possession" part that was changed. Possession of a firearm on park property isn't a problem and the sign now makes no mention of it. Of course I didn't actually ask what the verbiage was changed to. I'll go out there some time in the next few weeks just to check it out.
 
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