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Thread: OC in NM while pumping gas?

  1. #1
    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    OC in NM while pumping gas?

    Little bit confused on NM OC laws... I see i couldn't OC anywhere where booze is sold, including gas stations. But what about if you don't actually enter the gas station store and you just stop to pump gas and pay at the pump? Is that OK?

    Seems from the law where it says
    "A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
    ...
    ...
    ...
    4. by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily utilized for vehicular traffic or parking; or"

    would that include pumping gas at the pumps outside the store?

    Thanks in advance!

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    IIRC (for people OCing who do not have a CC permit), there is the "unwritten 3-foot" rule (usually applying to people gassing-up their motorcycles while OCing) that "says" as long as you stay by your car/at the pump -- do not go into the store -- you are fine.

    Someone correct me if wrong...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-18-2014 at 02:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    IIRC (for people OCing who do not have a CC permit), there is the "unwritten 3-foot" rule (usually applying to people gassing-up their motorcycles while OCing) that "says" as long as you stay by your car/at the pump -- do not go into the store -- you are fine.

    Someone correct me if wrong...
    oh i am sure NM's LEs apply the same jurisprudence to 'unwritten' rules as they do written statutes when it comes to their interaction with law-biding citizens. wait didn't the NM trooper get fired for discharging his firearm into a vehicle filled w/a family?

    uh, you do know cloudcroft, the Easter Bunny is making their way down pike's peak as we speak?

    ipse
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  4. #4
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Hopefully someone with knowledge of the statutes will come by to clear it up. IMO though, I believe if you are not actually in the business there should be no problem.

    But if you get one of those handy dandy paid permission cards all is good.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 02-18-2014 at 04:21 PM.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    OP... here is what the NM Statutes specifically state:

    30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments. (2010)
    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
    (1) by a law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the officer's duties;
    (2) by a law enforcement officer who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement
    Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978] acting in accordance with the policies of the officer's law enforcement agency;
    (3) by the owner, lessee, tenant or operator of the licensed premises or the owner's, lessee's, tenant's or operator's agents, including privately employed security personnel during the performance of their duties;
    (4) by a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978] on the premises of:
    (a) a licensed establishment that does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises; or
    (b) a restaurant licensed to sell only beer and wine that derives no less than sixty percent of its annual gross receipts from the sale of food for consumption on the premises, unless the restaurant has a sign posted, in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, or the person is verbally instructed by the owner or manager that the carrying of a firearm is not permitted in the restaurant;
    (5) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
    (6) by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily used for vehicular traffic or parking; or
    (7) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is:
    (a) made completely inoperative before it is carried onto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises; and
    (b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.
    B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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  6. #6
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    A felony? Just for making a mistake and carrying into a alcohol business. Wasn't this bill signed by Gov Johnson, the guy who claimed to be a libertarian?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    S & WW:

    Neither one of you 2 guys live in NM, so how do you know how it is there in real everyday life, going out and OCing in the Great State of New Mexico?

    Although I didn't live in NM either, when I lived in El Paso, TX, I probably spent as much time in NM (almost) as I did when I lived in ELP. I rode my MC regularly in the Las Cruces area, to Alamogordo, Ruidoso, Cloudcroft -- and regularly OCed while doing so. Same when I went to ABQ and Rio Rancho MANY times (sometimes by bike but mostly by car). When I stopped for gas, I had zero worries about the cops or even the law, as the locals told me about the "3-foot rule" so I stayed near the car/bike/pump until I was done then drove off.

    Maybe it was part of the also (and often arbitrary) "officer's discretion" I don't know, but I never had any issues. So I was just saying how it is in real life in NM, by someone who spent lots of time there (and this has been discussed in detail way back when here).

    Of course, others in NM can do whatever they want -- and I WOULD advise them to follow the letter of the law just to be safe -- but in practical application, I never had any issues in the hundreds of times I was in OCing in NM and stopped at a gas pump with a convenience store selling beer...whether in my car or on my bike. Nor do I know of any other OCer having any issues applying the "3-foot rule" at a gas station with convenience store.

    So for 2 guys who live in other states (NC?), it's like me telling you how it is there. Wouldn't know or even presume to do so.

    You both don't know about NM, either, but you're probably going to tell me about how it is here in the Great State of Colorado now...


    @WW: BTW, why do you have a fake "Indian" ("Iron Eyes Cody" it looks like) as your avatar? If it's not him, then I apologize.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-18-2014 at 06:37 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    S & WW:

    Neither one of you 2 guys live in NM, so how do you know how it is there in real everyday life, going out and OCing in the Great State of New Mexico?

    Although I didn't live in NM either, when I lived in El Paso, TX, I probably spent as much time in NM (almost) as I did when I lived in ELP. I rode my MC regularly in the Las Cruces area, to Alamogordo, Ruidoso, Cloudcroft -- and regularly OCed while doing so. Same when I went to ABQ and Rio Rancho MANY times (sometimes by bike but mostly by car). When I stopped for gas, I had zero worries about the cops or even the law, as the locals told me about the "3-foot rule" so I stayed near the car/bike/pump until I was done then drove off.

    Maybe it was part of the also (and often arbitrary) "officer's discretion" I don't know, but I never had any issues. So I was just saying how it is in real life in NM, by someone who spent lots of time there (and this has been discussed in detail way back when here).

    Of course, others in NM can do whatever they want -- and I WOULD advise them to follow the letter of the law just to be safe -- but in practical application, I never had any issues in the hundreds of times I was in OCing in NM and stopped at a gas pump with a convenience store selling beer...whether in my car or on my bike. Nor do I know of any other OCer having any issues applying the "3-foot rule."

    So for 2 guys who live in other states (NC?), it's like me telling you how it is there. Wouldn't know.

    You both don't, either.


    @WW: BTW, why do you have a fake "Indian" ("Iron Eyes Cody" it looks like) as your avatar?
    Neither one of us claimed to live there and only commented, if you have a problem with that take it up with moderators.

    As far as my avatar, only a person of less than normal intelligence would think to try to insult based on a avatar. It just goes beyond ignorant, and on the fast track to stupid.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Your response had a tone of ridicule. Not cool, so I responded.

    As for your BS, the feeling is mutual, I assure you.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-18-2014 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    Your response had a tone of ridicule. Not cool, so I responded.

    As for your BS, the feeling is mutual, I assure you.
    OHHHH I see you are from Colorado, now I am ridiculing. Pot Kettle Black!

    As far as the law, yeah IMO it is unjust and ignorant, you believe otherwise?

    BTW get off your high horse.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Solus answered the question correctly- you can be around the building and at the pumps, but not go inside the building.

    Cloudcroft- there is no such unwritten rule that I ever heard- but it also might have been more commonly known/applied before the laws changed to address alcohol establishments. I once heard a clerk in a gun store telling someone you were allowed to be within 100 feet of your vehicle and stay concealed with no license- you are allowed to do so IN your vehicle, but if you are not licensed, as soon as you get out of your vehicle you are supposed to "unconceal." That was one of the very rare occasions when I spoke up and told the guy he was dead wrong and should not be giving out bad information.

    It is not addressed in the law, but I believe if you were standing right by your motorcycle and gassing up that would be ok. But technically, by the letter of the law you might be in violation if you stayed concealed in that situation with no license.
    Last edited by AH.74; 02-18-2014 at 07:27 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    I'm sorry cloudcroft, as you point out, you have never lived in NM at all! El Paso TEXAS is not living in NM or riding your scoot though the state is not the same either!

    i'm sorry but you do not know a bloody thing about me, you do not know where i have lived nor where i have ridden my scoot(s). shall we discuss in detail: ABQ, Rio, SFE, TAOS, Raton, or down to Socorro, Cruzes, ELP and the caves, up to four corners, Farmington, or oil smelly Grant.

    shall we discuss Trinity, COS, dragon man's shooting range, Terry's reign, pike's peak, cripple creek, Denver, up to WY...i must profess western CO out of Denver wasn't explored past the ski ranges except the mountain runs up to WY...

    now quit throwing stones as your glass house seems to be, no it is coming down around your head.

    if you wish to chastise me for misquoting the cite i presented, fair, but allow me to point out you did not provide any type of viable solution but some nonsense about an 'unwritten rule' which was worthless to the OP and his query.

    you over your snit now?

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 02-18-2014 at 07:32 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    I'm sorry cloudcroft, as you point out, you have never lived in NM at all! El Paso TEXAS is not living in NM or riding your scoot though the state is not the same either!

    i'm sorry but you do not know a bloody thing about me, you do not know where i have lived nor where i have ridden my scoot(s). shall we discuss in detail: ABQ, Rio, SFE, TAOS, Raton, or down to Socorro, Cruzes, ELP and the caves, up to four corners, Farmington, or oil smelly Grant.

    shall we discuss Trinity, COS, dragon man's shooting range, Terry's reign, pike's peak, cripple creek, Denver, up to WY...i must profess western CO out of Denver wasn't explored past the ski ranges except the mountain runs up to WY...

    now quit throwing stones as your glass house seems to be, no it is coming down around your head.

    if you wish to chastise me for misquoting the cite i presented, fair, but allow me to point out you did not provide any type of viable solution but some nonsense about an 'unwritten rule' which was worthless to the OP and his query.

    you over your snit now?

    ipse
    Solus I think something is in the water today, either that it is a full moon, or because of Obama care there is a unusually high amount of internet rabies epidemic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    Solus answered the question correctly- you can be around the building and at the pumps, but not go inside the building.

    Cloudcroft- there is no such unwritten rule that I ever heard- but it also might have been more commonly known/applied before the laws changed to address alcohol establishments. I once heard a clerk in a gun store telling someone you were allowed to be within 100 feet of your vehicle and stay concealed with no license- you are allowed to do so IN your vehicle, but if you are not licensed, as soon as you get out of your vehicle you are supposed to "unconceal." That was one of the very rare occasions when I spoke up and told the guy he was dead wrong and should not be giving out bad information.

    It is not addressed in the law, but I believe if you were standing right by your motorcycle and gassing up that would be ok. But technically, by the letter of the law you might be in violation if you stayed concealed in that situation with no license.
    This is how I understand it as well, that if one should rely on this so called unwritten "3 foot rule", and be concealing at the pumps with no CCW permit, you can possibly find yourself in violation of NM state laws, thus a felony offense.

    As for open carry for a NM resident, as long as you haven't walked into the establishment-building selling alcohol for consumption, or off site consumption, you are OK.

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    Mark,

    What I was trying to say:

    "But what about if you don't actually enter the gas station store and you just stop to pump gas and pay at the pump? Is that OK?" -- OP/qednick

    Answer: a definite YES, it IS okay.

    "As for open carry for a NM resident, as long as you haven't walked into the establishment-building selling alcohol for consumption, or off site consumption, you are OK." -- MarkD51

    Yes, that's what I was saying...but you don't have to be a RESIDENT of NM to OC, NM is an OC state, so ANYONE in the sate can OC, even "tourists."

    That means you can OC at the pump. Resident or tourist. Doesn't matter.

    Even if the pump is included in "the licensed premises" (meaning the whole property site, not just the store itself) the cops DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about someone OCing at the pump. If it's illegal, then they should.

    [Or maybe technically it IS illegal, but they are applying the "he's just getting gas and not going into the store" rule, AKA: "the 3-foot rule" so they do nothing -- and no, I never meant exact 36" measurements, that's just what it's called]

    I should not have even mentioned CC permits as they have nothing to do in this particular situation: Putting gas in your car/bike. I just mentioned them because I was aware of the difference of someone who DOES has a NM CC permit (or a CC permit from a reciprocal state) being able to CC into the alcohol-selling convenience store. Earlier when the law first came out, CC permit holders could not do that but then later on the law changed to allow it. OCers (of course) can't enter the store whether they have a CC permit or not. But the OP was asking about OC at the pump only, and NOT going into the store. Consequently, a CC permit is irrelevant in that instance and I shouldn't have mentioned it.

    The only time I do NOT OC at the pump is on an Indian reservation, of which NM has plenty. In fact, I avoid Indian reservations (like the Mescalero in Ruidoso) due to their assorted gun laws, most of which are anti-gun.

    Otherwise, OCing at the gas pump in NM is not an issue.

    Never has been.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-19-2014 at 04:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Little bit confused on NM OC laws... I see i couldn't OC anywhere where booze is sold, including gas stations. But what about if you don't actually enter the gas station store and you just stop to pump gas and pay at the pump? Is that OK?

    Seems from the law where it says
    "A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
    ...
    ...
    ...
    4. by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily utilized for vehicular traffic or parking; or"

    would that include pumping gas at the pumps outside the store?

    Thanks in advance!
    Sorry about all the bickering,... Laws are always confusing and Regardless of what State someone lives in, most of the comments are correct. You'll be fine as long as you don't go INSIDE a place that sells alcohol. Maybe someday that Ridiculous Alcohol law will be changed.

    Be safe and remember its a Felony if you forget and walk into a store that Sells. (Darn near every Grocery Store, Gas Station and Walmart, Costco ect sells)
    Last edited by redsilver2; 02-19-2014 at 03:21 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MarkD51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    Mark,

    What I was trying to say:

    "But what about if you don't actually enter the gas station store and you just stop to pump gas and pay at the pump? Is that OK?" -- OP/qednick

    Answer: a definite YES, it IS okay.

    "As for open carry for a NM resident, as long as you haven't walked into the establishment-building selling alcohol for consumption, or off site consumption, you are OK." -- MarkD51

    Yes, that's what I was saying...but you don't have to be a RESIDENT of NM to OC, NM is an OC state, so ANYONE in the sate can OC, even "tourists."

    That means you can OC at the pump. Resident or tourist. Doesn't matter.

    Even if the pump is included in "the licensed premises" (meaning the whole property site, not just the store itself) the cops DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about someone OCing at the pump. If it's illegal, then they should.

    [Or maybe technically it IS illegal, but they are applying the "he's just getting gas and not going into the store" rule, AKA: "the 3-foot rule" so they do nothing -- and no, I never meant exact 36" measurements, that's just what it's called]

    I should not have even mentioned CC permits as they have nothing to do in this particular situation: Putting gas in your car/bike. I just mentioned them because I was aware of the difference of someone who DOES has a NM CC permit (or a CC permit from a reciprocal state) being able to CC into the alcohol-selling convenience store. Earlier when the law first came out, CC permit holders could not do that but then later on the law changed to allow it. OCers (of course) can't enter the store whether they have a CC permit or not. But the OP was asking about OC at the pump only, and NOT going into the store. Consequently, a CC permit is irrelevant in that instance and I shouldn't have mentioned it.

    The only time I do NOT OC at the pump is on an Indian reservation, of which NM has plenty. In fact, I avoid Indian reservations (like the Mescalero in Ruidoso) due to their assorted gun laws, most of which are anti-gun.

    Otherwise, OCing at the gas pump in NM is not an issue.

    Never has been.
    Thank you for your time to post this.
    Agreed, mucho confusion, and it is truly something when I speak with people here who should know some basic NM Gun Laws, some are licensed-state certified, and seem to know little to nothing, or having totally skewed information, such as one person telling me it is illegal to conceal carry loaded in a vehicle, and not only just concealing on one's person, but say concealing a loaded firearm in a glove box, etc.

    Sadly, lots of ignorance here, and that's OK with me. I'm more worried-concerned about LEO's , and many alarmist "tattle tale" citizens with things like "MWAG calls" and ignorance, or mis-interpretation of NM's 2nd amendment constitutional rights.

    Typical it often seems, a fine noteworthy example was Mr Matt St John at the Aviator 10 Theater here in town some years back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD51 View Post
    This is how I understand it as well, that if one should rely on this so called unwritten "3 foot rule", and be concealing at the pumps with no CCW permit, you can possibly find yourself in violation of NM state laws, thus a felony offense.
    Actually, unlawful carry of a deadly weapon, which is what concealing without a license would be considered, is only a petty misdemeanor, unless schools or liquor establishments are involved.

    Cloudcroft brings up a good point which should not be overlooked- I would absolutely go out of my way NOT to stop at a reservation gas station if you are open carrying. In fact, I would avoid roads other than the interstate that are on reservation lands. It's just not worth the potential of a lot of trouble.
    Last edited by AH.74; 02-19-2014 at 09:20 AM.

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    Reservations suck!
    You may not even know you are on one when you get pulled over on a major hwy so before you start confessing to the officer that you have a handgun in your car or on your person (just like a honest citizen should when pulled over and it helps the officer having trust in you) Check to see if it is a Reservation cop. Just ask what department the Officer is with.

    The others are right gun law are all over the place when it comes to Reservations. That said, have a fun trip to NM and keep it safe! It's a great OC state.

  20. #20
    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Thanks so much everybody! I really didn't quite expect so many replies in such a short space of time!

    To clarify, I was talking purely about OC *not CC* as I have done so many times in NM on my TX CHL. I just fancied OC'ing for a change since we can't do it here in Texas (yet). Just don't want any mamby pamby bedwetters getting too upset with me.

    Interesting that you brought up the reservation notes as that was going to be my next question. I had gathered it was big NO NO---but my question would really be how the hell would I know I'm on one? Driven through NM so many times and I can't recall ever seeing any signs saying I was actually on one.

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    The direct answer re: knowing you're on tribal/reservation lands is to do your homework and go over your routes, before going out.

    The general thinking as far as having guns in your vehicles while passing through is that as long as you stay on state roads you should be ok. That's "should be." In other words, don't go sight-seeing- stay on the roads and keep moving. Stay at or under the speed limits.

    In all the time I've spent on tribal lands and reservations, and I used to work with some of the Northern NM Tribal people, I have never seen any tribal police, let alone anyone pulled over by them. That doesn't mean they're not out there however.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Thanks buddy! Very helpful.

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    Yes, Indian reservations are problematic: How in the heck are you supposed to safeguard all that $$ you won in their casinos?

    ;-)

    P.S. I like to go to the Sandia casino (ABQ/Tramway) -- but ONLY for the food! Same for the Inn of the Mountain Gods (Ruidoso).
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-19-2014 at 06:37 PM.

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    Cloudcroft you probably didn't even live in El Paso - probably only on the East Side….
    So the question I have is can you OC at Chope's and eat red enchiladas?
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    Cloudcroft you probably didn't even live in El Paso - probably only on the East Side….
    So the question I have is can you OC at Chope's and eat red enchiladas?
    Ahh, Chopes! Hear they make fantastic Enchiladas, and absolute killer Chile Rellenos. One of these days, I'm gonna eat there!

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