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Thread: Ky. plan aims to arm teachers, mitigate active shooter situations

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    Ky. plan aims to arm teachers, mitigate active shooter situations

    Ky. plan aims to arm teachers, mitigate active shooter situations


    http://www.fox19.com/story/24770983/...ter-situations

    KY plans to arm teachers and school employees to protect students from school shootings. The Boone County (KY) Sheriff and a Boone County constable started designing the program (called "Protecting our Students and Teachers") right after Sandy Hook and said to be modeled after the National Armed Pilots Program. It will be volunteer based according to the story.


    BOONE COUNTY, KY (FOX19) -

    "Usually the police are only minutes away. When seconds count, you want the response to be a second ago. What we're doing is allowing the response to be within seconds instead of minutes," said Kalil, who is also the director of the P.O.S.T. Program."


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    I like this. School staff all over this country should be allowed to arm themselves to protect the children. Popper training and safety and all will be well.
    I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands! ~ Charlton Heston (1923 -- 2008)

    Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand be faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be if I only had a gun; and Lord if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. ~ The Gunfighter’s Prayer

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I attended this event. I had heard about this program a while back, while it was still being developed. I went expecting 50 people to attend, I though 100 would be a big turn out. When I got there the room was full, seating and standing room both. Soon the crowd was flowing out into hallways. There had to be 500 people there. The support was almost universal. There were four Co. Sheriffs on stage with the director of this program, Joe Kalil. These were the sheriffs of Grant, Boone, Campbell and Kenton Co.'s. I expected to stay an hour, but it went on and on with comments and questions. Almost all were positive. Some questions from some, but no real resistance. It lasted almost 3 hours. Lots of LEO in the crowd, all positive. A few OC'ers, including me. Held at Boone Co. Library. I learned that Ohio has 20 school districts with armed teachers. Ky. has zero. Thirteen states have at least one district with armed teachers. There were several TV stations recording and doing interviews. http://postky.org/

    PROTECTING OUR STUDENTS & TEACHERS (POST) PROGRAM

    by Joe Kalil

    There are few things that we can all universally agree on, but one of them has to be that our children are precious and deserve all the protection from harm that we can give them. It’s time to have a serious conversation about whether we are doing that or not. The vast majority of our schools are not adequately protected from active shooters. Across the country there are armed guards in banks, armed pilots in cockpits and armed security in malls. Why do we protect our children with any less than we do our money, our planes or our clothes?

    As of Feb. 14, 2014, there have been 44 school shootings since Newtown, CT (average of one every 10 days) & last month, there was an average of one school shooting for every other school day (and this includes Jan 1 & 2 that were during the holiday). 13 shootings overall since the New Year and one of them occurred in Kentucky.

    A “No Gun” sign on the doors of our schools does nothing to protect our children. On the contrary, the sign tells the criminal that no one (unless the school has an SRO - School Resource Officer) is armed & therefore makes the school less safe. Shootings at schools have increased nearly 5 fold since the passage of the Gun-Free Schools Zone Act of 1990 and its update in 1995. The reality we need to face is that criminals, by definition, do not obey laws.

    Here in northern Kentucky, we are proposing the “POST” (Protecting Our Students & Teachers) Program. It is modeled off the the concept that was used to establish the very successful “Armed Pilot” Program on commercial airliners in the wake of 9/11. It relies only on volunteers (no pressure to participate) who are school employees (teachers, administrators, staff, guidance counselors, school nurses, custodians, bus drivers, etc.). The volunteer submits an application and them completes an interview, background check, & drug test. The participant must possess a concealed carry permit prior to attending training. The training program is 5 1/2 days & 47 hours in length (not including the 8 hour KY CCDW Permit Course).

    The first part of the training is 4 hours in length and is conducted a couple weeks prior to the training course. The intent of this half day is to prepare the participant for training. It consists of a Program Brief, SSI (Sensitive Security Information) Brief, Firearm Safety, Safe Storage, Mindset, Handgun Nomenclature & Function, Ammunition Familiarization, Holster Types, and Methods of Concealment.

    The core training course is 43 hours in length and includes subject matter such as: Use of Deadly Force, Mindset, Fundamentals of Shooting, Precision Shooting, Shooting on the Move, Shooting from Cover, Multiple Target Engagement, and much more (see website below for full course contents). The training concludes with a Qualification Course of Fire as well as scenario training consisting of a half day of FATS (interactive police scenario simulator) & half day of scenario training with Airsoft in an actual school. Firearms qualification would be required at least semi-annually as well as a 1-day Refresher Course in the summer just prior to the beginning of the school year. The intent of this program is to serve as a starting point. Each school district is encouraged to take ownership of the program and modify it as they see fit.

    When we implement POST in schools, this is truly a case where a small change would make a big difference. A 5% participation rate of existing faculty and staff would result in a successful program. The three aspects of this program that make it affective are: 1) DETERRENCE: Placing a sign on school doors that says, “This school participates in the POST Program. Teachers & staff may be armed on this campus” would deter most shooters since they are seeking a body count, not a fight. 2) IMMEDIATE ARMED RESPONSE: The average response time for local law enforcement is between 2 and 4 minutes (3 minutes at Sandy Hook Elementary). The teachers and staff are already there and can respond the second an attack begins. Seconds mean lives saved. 3) THOROUGHNESS OF TRAINING: Unlike most of the other programs that exist now, POST requires extensive training and regular re-certification. We recognize that’s a big commitment by those that choose to volunteer to become POST certified, but we think all can agree that when it comes to the safety of our children, the investment of time is worth it.

    Whatever programs your school has in place today, POST will make them more effective. We have multiple levels of fire protection at schools – we have fire extinguishers AND sprinklers AND fire alarms AND smoke detectors AND fire drills. POST certified personnel would be a major asset to School resource officers. Even if your school has an SRO (School Resource Officer), this would be an effective program. SROs are not always on campus. They could be sick, attending training, at lunch, conducting a “home visit” with the principle or on the other side of campus when the shooting occurs. We must also consider that the SRO may be the first person targeted and is no longer able to protect the students. Since the identity of the POST Program participants would not be publicly known (except to the SRO, school staff & other program participants & police dispatch), the shooter would not know who is armed.

    There is a saying: “When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.” The 20 children & 6 teachers murdered in Newtown were killed with a police response time of only 3 minutes! The POST Program is a team concept. The SRO would be aware of who is armed and they would be trained to work together as a team to provide a layered defense, similar to that of the airline industry. Dispatch would know the number of participants in each school so responding law enforcement can be notified in the case of a school shooting.

    Join me in taking a stand and demand that our children are protected before the next shooting occurs. The question is: Will it be in your school? Will it be your child? Had the 4 teachers that were murdered in Newtown while shielding their children been armed, they might have saved their own lives and their children. Don’t wait until we have a scene of flowers, teddy bears, & candles in front of one our our schools. Take action!
    Certainly sounds like a step in the right direction. I hope to see this become a reality. It would make you scratch your head in disbelief to hear some of the reasons that I have heard today of why some people don't want this to happen.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-21-2014 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Rule #19
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    There are few things that we can all universally agree on, but one of them has to be that our children are precious and deserve all the protection from harm that we can give them. <snip of post 3>

    I would not go so far as "all" ... I would say "reasonable".

    If you want to give them "all the protection" we would be following them around like ducks.

    Risk is part of life.

    To give them "all the protection" would mean to not have them do anything that could result in injury or death ... and that's a lot of things. At least that's how I viewed the post.

    My parents came from large families (12 & 13 kids - and 6 miscarriages) and I come from a large family. We had no "emperors" and raising my kids I did not treat them in a super special manner; taught them "ye reap what you sow" and that risk can have its rewards.

    We are only here on this physical existence for a short period of time .. the afterlife lasts forever.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    There are few things that we can all universally agree on, but one of them has to be that our children are precious and deserve all the protection from harm that we can give them. <snip of post 3>

    I would not go so far as "all" ... I would say "reasonable".

    If you want to give them "all the protection" we would be following them around like ducks.

    Risk is part of life.

    To give them "all the protection" would mean to not have them do anything that could result in injury or death ... and that's a lot of things. At least that's how I viewed the post.

    My parents came from large families (12 & 13 kids - and 6 miscarriages) and I come from a large family. We had no "emperors" and raising my kids I did not treat them in a super special manner; taught them "ye reap what you sow" and that risk can have its rewards.

    We are only here on this physical existence for a short period of time .. the afterlife lasts forever.
    No offense brother but pretty sure the "harm" they were referring to was getting shot in the face by some psycho because that POS has an issue with that school or an employee, not falling down and getting a boo boo. Or riding. A bike without a helmet.. or watching to make sure when they play tag they don't trip....

    You get my point.

    Unfortunately this isn't the 50s 60s 70s where you make lots of kids and just kick them loose. For some stupid reason shooting kids at school is all the rage.

    Kids are too young to defend themselves. So damn right we need someone there to do it. A trained teacher works for me if you can't put a cop. Someone needs to be around with a gun.

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    Thanks for the support

    This is Chris Kelley (the guy moderating the Q&A for those of you that were at the event and the guy that is running the website for those of you that weren't).

    Thanks for all the support everyone. What we need to do now is get people to show up at their local school boards and ask them to schedule a full briefing on POST. We just added some material to the site to help people do that. If you do think POST is a good idea, please let your School Board know about it: http://postky.org/take-action/talkin...r-board-of-ed/

    Thanks again.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    No offense brother but pretty sure the "harm" they were referring to was getting shot in the face by some psycho because that POS has an issue with that school or an employee, not falling down and getting a boo boo. Or riding. A bike without a helmet.. or watching to make sure when they play tag they don't trip....

    You get my point.

    Unfortunately this isn't the 50s 60s 70s where you make lots of kids and just kick them loose. For some stupid reason shooting kids at school is all the rage.

    Kids are too young to defend themselves. So damn right we need someone there to do it. A trained teacher works for me if you can't put a cop. Someone needs to be around with a gun.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Right. Turn the mandatory facilities we are forced to send our children to into penitentiaries. There are far more incidents of "school resource" officers pointing weapons at the children we were lead to believe they were to protect, tasing children into compliance, and far, far more sexual assaults have been perpetrated on school children by school cops than "outside crazies".

    http://www.rrecord.com/-news/2014/2-20-14/police1.asp

    http://tbo.com/news/crime/tampa-poli...teen-20131219/

    I do not consent to anyone dealing with my family who's core qualification is their willingness and ability to use force.

    http://www.nbc12.com/story/24792413/...sted-at-school

    Essentially, if you send your children to school, they could come home in a box at the hands of government thugs. A civil settlement [if you can afford it] is small consolation. This does not sound like something that was consented to by the governed. For one instance where a child was protected by these cops, I can come up with ten instances where a child was raped. Beaten. Tased.

    http://www.citizen-times.com/article...x-offense-case

    Putting government goons in our schools creates problems beyond the raping, beating and tasing of the children. Parents that stand up to or even question the actions of these thugs are frequently taken from their homes and put in dungeons.

    http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/news/loc...tfsUtvqGg.cspx

    "I told him, 'I will release my son to you upon viewing those orders.' Those were exactly my words," The complainant said. "He said, 'This is how you want to play?' He took two steps back, turned around to the officer and said, 'Take her.' They turned me around, handcuffed me, and took me in."

    The complainant said she was aware police would be coming to apprehend her 11-year-old son based on a criminal complaint, and that she just wanted to see the warrant. As it turns out, that warrant didn't exist. She spent the night in jail while her son was left at home.

    "He told me it was their duty to come pick up my son," She said. "Yet, I had someone stay the night at my house. They never came back that evening, they never came to pick up my son, or do what they told me they were there to do in the beginning."

    "This occurred on May 29 when they went out to apprehend this young man," Dwight McDonald, the family's attorney, said. "The directive to apprehend was not signed until May 30, which is another indication that they didn't have the authority to go out and arrest him or apprehend this young man."

    Slaton Police Department will issue an apology as long as the mother agrees not to file a lawsuit.

    No. This is not what we need in our schools.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 02-22-2014 at 12:15 PM.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Right. Turn the mandatory facilities we are forced to send our children to into penitentiaries. There are far more incidents of "school resource" officers pointing weapons at the children we were lead to believe they were to protect, tasing children into compliance, and far, far more sexual assaults have been perpetrated on school children by school cops than "outside crazies".

    http://www.rrecord.com/-news/2014/2-20-14/police1.asp

    http://tbo.com/news/crime/tampa-poli...teen-20131219/

    I do not consent to anyone dealing with my family who's core qualification is their willingness and ability to use force.

    http://www.nbc12.com/story/24792413/...sted-at-school

    Essentially, if you send you kid to school, they could come home in a box at the hands of government thugs. A civil settlement is small consolation. This does not sound like something that was consented to by the governed. For one instance where a child was protected by these cops, I can come up with ten instances where a child was raped. Beaten. Tased.

    http://www.citizen-times.com/article...x-offense-case

    Putting government goons in our schools creates problems beyond the raping, beating and tasing of the children. Parents that stand up to or even question the actions of these thugs are frequently taken from their homes and put in dungeons.

    http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/news/loc...tfsUtvqGg.cspx

    "I told him, 'I will release my son to you upon viewing those orders.' Those were exactly my words," The complainant said. "He said, 'This is how you want to play?' He took two steps back, turned around to the officer and said, 'Take her.' They turned me around, handcuffed me, and took me in."

    The complainant said she was aware police would be coming to apprehend her 11-year-old son based on a criminal complaint, and that she just wanted to see the warrant. As it turns out, that warrant didn't exist. She spent the night in jail while her son was left at home.

    "He told me it was their duty to come pick up my son," She said. "Yet, I had someone stay the night at my house. They never came back that evening, they never came to pick up my son, or do what they told me they were there to do in the beginning."

    "This occurred on May 29 when they went out to apprehend this young man," Dwight McDonald, the family's attorney, said. "The directive to apprehend was not signed until May 30, which is another indication that they didn't have the authority to go out and arrest him or apprehend this young man."

    Slaton Police Department will issue an apology as long as the mother agrees not to file a lawsuit.

    No. This is not what we need in our schools.
    Well done.... another thread derailed.
    I think your going for a record.

    The sad part this is a serious and important issue. We should have someone armed in school. Instead of focusing on that you need to focus on police ... per usual.

    Sad....

    Edit: spelling.

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    Last edited by Primus; 02-22-2014 at 10:42 AM.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Well done.... another thread derailed.
    I think your going for a record.

    The sad part this is a serious and important issue. We should have someone armed in school. Instead of focusing on that you need to focus on police ... per usual.

    Sad....

    Edit: spelling.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    The safety of our children is as serious a discussion as any could ever have. Due to the seriousness of the topic, it might benefit all to address the issues in a reality based manner.

    Two points:

    1. We need to remove the "soft target" status of our children.

    2. Nothing indicates our only options are to set those same children up to be the victims of unaccountable government thugs.

    The person that deals with my child will be accountable to me, or they will not deal with my child. It's really that simple. I refuse to chance another isolated incident where my child is victimized by someone protected by a blue line.

    Teachers, on the other hand, still have some accountability to those who pay them. They are a source to consider when discussing hardening our schools. We still have accountability and input by training the teachers to protect our children. We haven't been fed propaganda that because teachers have a hard job, we should ignore their abuses and deprivations. Attempting to fortify the chicken coop against weasels by putting wolves inside is a bit counter productive.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 02-22-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mem1977 View Post
    I like this. School staff all over this country should be allowed to arm themselves to protect the children. Popper training and safety and all will be well.
    I too believe that everyone should receive "Popper training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by aakelley View Post
    This is Chris Kelley (the guy moderating the Q&A for those of you that were at the event and the guy that is running the website for those of you that weren't).

    Thanks for all the support everyone. What we need to do now is get people to show up at their local school boards and ask them to schedule a full briefing on POST. We just added some material to the site to help people do that. If you do think POST is a good idea, please let your School Board know about it: http://postky.org/take-action/talkin...r-board-of-ed/

    Thanks again.
    Hello, Chris. I would love to do that and had serious plans on doing this with my local school board a few months back. (before I even knew about POST. I was going to pitch the idea that my school district allow what POST is trying to do now) The reason that I never did pursue this is because it's almost a guarantee in my area that this will be viewed as an "extreme crazy man" idea. The reason that I say that is because a few months back we (I work in fire/EMS) did an active shooter exercise at the local high school. You would not believe how difficult it was to get the school board to allow us to do this type of training. We did this training on a Saturday and no kids were involved with the training. Why was the school board so concerned about allowing us to do this training?? Because we may be "giving kids ideas" if we do this training.

    To be openly rude, if our school board is that stupid and has that mindset, the odds are against us. But, now that we have a program in place I may try this. The fact that it has LE endorsement and also sounds like it has lots of support from others, I won't feel so much like a "1 man army" trying push this. It's my hope that POST will be my teeth. It all boils down to a sells pitch. I'd like to learn more about POST and maybe see if we can make a change.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    No reasonable person can claim that what we are doing now is a success. As far as I can see, the current plan is, "keep you head down and hope nothing bad happens". I can see no purpose in discussing this subject with that kind of person. I know Joe Kalil personally. He is a first class man and extremely competent. His resume is truly remarkable.
    I agree and it's my own fault for wasting my time trying to convince a well known liberal democrat that this is a good thing. I need to focus that energy where it may actually make a difference. The only valid point that the lib made was there will most more than likely be hysteria from some parents as well as school officials. Maybe lawsuits as well. I just wonder if we will get enough resistance from these folks to kill this idea? I hope not but time will tell I suppose. The claim was also made that the insurance companies that provide insurance to schools would either cancel the insurance plan or raise the rates so much that they couldn't be afforded. I don't know if that's BS or a credible threat.
    Last edited by self preservation; 02-22-2014 at 02:31 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    I like this idea, maybe we can get something like this pushed at the state level and mandated into all the schools.

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    I missed this meeting because I did not hear about it until it was over (same night). Anyway, I think it is a great idea. Are there any discussions about special training? I would think that would be important/necessary. I think some people allow panic to take over in a high stress situation and they can become part of the problem. When you are talking about the individual carrier then the issues is not there because they are only watching out for themselves (and family). When you are talking about protecting a class/school full of children it could be a big area of concern.

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    Sorry, you caught me. I read everything but that portion. Sorry for the stupid question (see, they do exist)! Great plan though, wish I hadn't missed the meeting.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Has POST been rejected by schools in KY. because the insurance companies refused to offer insurance to schools with armed staff?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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