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Thread: Texas man not allowed to vote for wearing pro-2A T-shirt

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    Texas man not allowed to vote for wearing pro-2A T-shirt

    Wow, in Texas, it must be Bushs' fault some how !
    Last edited by scott58dh; 06-27-2014 at 01:58 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Would you argue that his "free speech" rights should allow him to talk to people in line about so-and-so, trying to encourage them to vote for a certain individual?

    They might have the authority to extend that rule to that shirt, but they had better damn well be just as vigilant against T-shirts that promote ANY ideology.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-23-2014 at 04:26 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So I think we are agreeing that a pro-2nd amendment shirt is in violation of that law, at least for this particular election.

    Now, whether or not the law is just or over-reaching is a different matter.

    I don't see much difference between his shirt and a campaign button, in effect, especially with such a measure on the ballot.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-23-2014 at 05:20 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I agree. I see a very significant difference between wearing a slogan or campaign button on your shirt while voting and standing at the polling place handing out leaflets.

    In my opinion, the law is over-reaching.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-23-2014 at 05:45 PM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Take the election poll watchers to court. A generic slogan supporting the 2A is not "campaigning" for a ballot measure. The 2A is not on any ballot in Texas.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Texas will be a blue state soon. The swell is turning against conservatives very quickly. May i borrow some money for a new flat screem by the way? my ebt card didnt cover it all.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Take the election poll watchers to court. A generic slogan supporting the 2A is not "campaigning" for a ballot measure. The 2A is not on any ballot in Texas.
    This year’s primary ballot happens to include a proposition asking for a yes or no vote on expanded support for the Second Amendment
    No, the 2A is not up for a vote, but more support for it is.

    The law is overreaching, but seemed to apply here.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    No, the 2A is not up for a vote, but more support for it is.

    The law is overreaching, but seemed to apply here.
    Sue the poll workers for violating his 1A. They are the state on election day and infringed upon his1A,

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Sue the poll workers for violating his 1A. They are the state on election day and infringed upon his1A,
    The area inside the polling place is not a "public forum" where unlimited free speech is allowed.

    Whether a court would find there was a 1A violation would likely depend on how precisely the Texas statute was drafted, and how clear it was under the law that wearing the T shirt was not permitted. If the law was vague, or there was evidence of viewpoint discrimination, things might not go so well for the Lone Star state.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey View Post
    The area inside the polling place is not a "public forum" where unlimited free speech is allowed.

    Whether a court would find there was a 1A violation would likely depend on how precisely the Texas statute was drafted, and how clear it was under the law that wearing the T shirt was not permitted. If the law was vague, or there was evidence of viewpoint discrimination, things might not go so well for the Lone Star state.
    Sue the poll workers for violating his 1A. But, it was just a teeny tiny infringement, no big deal, in the big scheme of things that is......chip chip chip.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey
    The area inside the polling place is not a "public forum" where unlimited free speech is allowed.
    According to the article, the polling place was in the county courthouse.
    Can't get much more public.

    Whether a court would find there was a 1A violation would likely depend on how precisely the Texas statute was drafted, and how clear it was under the law that wearing the T shirt was not permitted.
    Since the shirt was not "campaigning for any candidate, measure or political party”, but simply expressing his opinion, no law can prevent him from wearing it even in a public place such as a courthouse or polling booth.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    Note; OC for ME, may I point out this from the article in question,,,

    "This year’s primary ballot happens to include a proposition asking for a yes or no vote on expanded support for the Second Amendment and the places where a concealed weapon can be legally carried

    So, this could be viewed as a *Gray* area with this issue in promoting a "Cause" at the Public Polls...?...

    Ya' think ???
    Well, having a pack of smokes in your pocket could be seen as campaigning against no smoking ballot measures. Drinking a Big Gulp could be seen as campaigning against a ballot measure that would limit sugary drinks to 16oz or less.

    It is very simple, state laws that are in alignment with the 2A are not future laws that are votes for or against "the" 2A.

    Sue the poll workers for violating his 1A!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    According to the article, the polling place was in the county courthouse.
    Can't get much more public.
    It was in a polling place in the county courthouse. Most states ban electioneering inside polling places for fairly obvious reasons. The question, which you recognize below, is whether this activity fits into the state's definition of electioneering ie "campaigning for any candidate, measure or political party" within the prohibited zone, and whether this standard is itself narrowly drawn enough to pass constitutional muster.

    Since the shirt was not "campaigning for any candidate, measure or political party”, but simply expressing his opinion, no law can prevent him from wearing it even in a public place such as a courthouse or polling booth.
    If you do not say "vote for X" within a polling place but just wear a "I support X" tee shirt, is that electioneering? If you cannot tell whether or not it is electioneering by looking at the statute, isn't the statute unconstitutionally vague?

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    Nope, not saying that at all. Texas has a law that forbids "campaigning for any “candidate, measure or political party” which includes "signs" about topics which are to be voted on, & evidently there is a 2A question on the Ballot.

    That's what I'm talking about, nothing more that an individuals "Rights" within the Laws of course, not saying that some Laws aren't able to be changed ever.

    I see in the article that He didn't give up his right to vote, he just kept a positive attitude, borrowed a coat & went ahead & voted.

    from article; "Texas election law bars campaigning for any “candidate, measure or political party” within 100 feet of polling place. His T-shirt could be construed as campaigning in support of gun rights under the law. Violators can be charged with a misdemeanor.

    This year’s primary ballot happens to include a proposition asking for a yes or no vote on expanded support for the Second Amendment and the places where a concealed weapon can be legally carried. "
    DAM that pesky US Constitution has no place with America's laws......

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    Note; OC for ME, may I point out this from the article in question,,,

    "This year’s primary ballot happens to include a proposition asking for a yes or no vote on expanded support for the Second Amendment and the places where a concealed weapon can be legally carried

    So, this could be viewed as a *Gray* area with this issue in promoting a "Cause" at the Public Polls...?...

    Ya' think ???
    Never thought of the US Constitution as a gray area before.....

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, you are making the argument that it should be okay for a candidate to actively campaign at the polling place, as well.

    I don't disagree, but otherwise, a line is somewhere.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-24-2014 at 05:41 PM.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    [ramblings]There should be no line. No line on what sort of message a man may have on his shirt, nor a line to vote at all. The issue "what should be allowed at the voting booths?" "where should that line be?" is so hard to answer because it's all built atop an illegitimate function. It's hard to make up "good" rules for an illegitimate system - even when you apply good values and principles they just don't ever seem to fit quite right. You must go deeper to see why. Take a step back and look at the big picture.[/ramblings]
    Advocate freedom please

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    Any state law regarding gun rights has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. A state can not expand or in any other way have any effect on the 2nd amendment. Nor can a state in any way change its obligations to its citizens under this amendment. So generalized speech regarding the 2nd amendment can not interfere with a state polling location.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    [ramblings]There should be no line. No line on what sort of message a man may have on his shirt, nor a line to vote at all. The issue "what should be allowed at the voting booths?" "where should that line be?" is so hard to answer because it's all built atop an illegitimate function. It's hard to make up "good" rules for an illegitimate system - even when you apply good values and principles they just don't ever seem to fit quite right. You must go deeper to see why. Take a step back and look at the big picture.[/ramblings]
    Back in the "good old days" in the South we knew how to do it right.

    Just have a few boys in sheets and hoods with a few axe handles doing a little electioneering up and down the line, "You know who to vote for boy, don'cha?"

    No line, right?

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    Did they have some kind of special dress code in place for everyone at the polling booth? I think not...

    Another issue I have always had with the voting rules/laws..

    A 17 year old genius cannot vote however a 30 year old idiot could walk in an pull levers until is heart is content... Just does not make sense to me..

    Regards.

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Did they have some kind of special dress code in place for everyone at the polling booth? I think not...

    Another issue I have always had with the voting rules/laws..

    A 17 year old genius cannot vote however a 30 year old idiot could walk in an pull levers until is heart is content... Just does not make sense to me..

    Regards.

    CCJ
    Same 30 year old idiot gets to buy a gun and pull triggers to his hearts content.... and the 17 year old genius may not be able to.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    I suppose it depends on just *Who* the people are that are squawking about the issue of what's being voted on, the Pro's or the Con's and who's $$$ is backing up the issue on the ballot, the "smokers" or the "drinkers"
    It does not depend on anything.

    Sue the poll workers for violating his 1A!!!

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    Are the poll workers employed by the G? If not, no constitutional rights violations law suit will apply.

    Regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Paid or not, they represent the state.

    Sue the poll workers for violating his 1A!!!

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post



    The *Gray* area which I was referring to was Not that of questioning the validity of the US Const., but that of the T-shirt being in proximity of the Polling area, considering the fact that a question about "Public Carry" (specifically New allowable Locations) was up for vote.
    Also, I'm not saying that said law restricting the "promotion of any issue" is a legitimate one, if someone doesn't approve of said law then there are ways of changing that problem as they perceive it to be as well.



    .
    They are not voting on the US Constitution, that has already been done. The shirt with part of the US Constitution shouldn't be an issue. His shirt didn't say vote for or else. It was just a shirt with words that are LAW already. Now if his shirt referenced the current vote that would be one thing. They should be sued for violation of his rights, as he wasn't telling people on how to vote for an issue that wasn't the 2A.

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