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Thread: Open carrier stopped in Dayton

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Open carrier stopped in Dayton

    Thanks to TJW815 on OFCC for the initial find

    http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-...-public/ndXyZ/

    Dayton police said a man walking around with an AK-47 rifle caused concern Friday, but he didn't violate any laws.

    Officers responded shortly before 3 p.m. to North Gettysburg Avenue in the area of James H. McGee Boulevard on reports of a man carrying an assault rifle in public.

    Police said the man had the rifle strapped across his back and did not point it at anyone or threaten others.

    He was not arrested because he didn't break any laws, said Dayton Sgt. Mark Spiers.

    "It's not illegal to possess and carry a firearm," he said. "As long as it's not concealed and he's not discharging it ... If he did point it in a menacing manner that would make it a crime."

    Spiers said the man was not from the area and may have done this simply to draw police response and get attention.

    Officers checked the man's background and found he was not restricted from owning a firearm.


    Facebook, lots of positive comments: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...l_comments=233
    Last edited by BB62; 02-25-2014 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Thanks to TJW815 on OFCC for the initial find

    http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-...-public/ndXyZ/

    Dayton police said a man walking around with an AK-47 rifle caused concern Friday, but he didn't violate any laws.

    Officers responded shortly before 3 p.m. to North Gettysburg Avenue in the area of James H. McGee Boulevard on reports of a man carrying an assault rifle in public.

    Police said the man had the rifle strapped across his back and did not point it at anyone or threaten others.

    He was not arrested because he didn't break any laws, said Dayton Sgt. Mark Spiers.

    "It's not illegal to possess and carry a firearm," he said. "As long as it's not concealed and he's not discharging it ... If he did point it in a menacing manner that would make it a crime."

    Spiers said the man was not from the area and may have done this simply to draw police response and get attention.

    Officers checked the man's background and found he was not restricted from owning a firearm.


    Facebook, lots of positive comments: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...l_comments=233
    Sue the cops. They made it easy.

  3. #3
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    first your title is extremely misleading...
    second, why do i give a rat's arse if some idiot in the gem city is carrying a long rifle
    third, think, may have read that wrong, but discussions of long rifles is off limits here?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    first your title is extremely misleading...
    second, why do i give a rat's arse if some idiot in the gem city is carrying a long rifle
    third, think, may have read that wrong, but discussions of long rifles is off limits here?

    ipse
    To answer your questions:

    1) your title is extremely misleading: Not wanting to fail to credit the original poster or modify his title, I simply copied the title from the original posting: http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtop...57675#p4257675

    2) why do i give a rat's arse if some idiot in the gem city is carrying a long rifle: I know it may be news to you, but I don't exist to interest or please you.

    3) third, think, may have read that wrong, but discussions of long rifles is off limits here?: I actually didn't even think of that. The rules are well known -I simply put the link and story here in the Ohio forum for the enlightenment of Ohioans who dislike or don't know of OFCC and/or its forum. Any discussion desired would of course have to take place there or at Buckeye Firearms' forum.

    No malice, deviousness, promotion or discussion was intended. The posting was done as an FYI. If the moderator or site owner(s) finds that my action is sanctionable, he/they will smite me, lock this thread, and place me in solitary confinement. I will accept my punishment with a smile.

    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by BB62; 02-26-2014 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    To answer your questions: <snip> No malice, deviousness, promotion or discussion was intended. The posting was done as an FYI. If the moderator or site owner(s) finds that my action is sanctionable, he/they will smite me, lock this thread, and place me in solitary confinement. I will accept my punishment with a smile.

    Have a nice day.
    Double secret probation for you.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The issue is not the carrying of a long gun, but stopping and harassing someone exercising their 2nd. Amendment right.
    Last edited by color of law; 02-26-2014 at 02:59 PM.

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    For what it's worth I'd like to add that as memory serves the neighborhood in question, relatively speaking, merits carry of firearms by law-abiding folk.

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    Regular Member Tackleberry1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    first your title is extremely misleading...
    second, why do i give a rat's arse if some idiot in the gem city is carrying a long rifle
    third, think, may have read that wrong, but discussions of long rifles is off limits here?

    ipse
    Dude?

    An OC citizen was stopped, delayed, and ID'd. If thats not appropriate here because it happened to be a long gun then lots of OC folks may just look for a new forum.

    Is there a particular disdain for OC of long guns that missed?

    Tack

  9. #9
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
    Dude?

    An OC citizen was stopped, delayed, and ID'd. If thats not appropriate here because it happened to be a long gun then lots of OC folks may just look for a new forum.

    Is there a particular disdain for OC of long guns that missed?
    Kinda making me wish we had upvotes there, Tack. This isn't a long gun v handgun issue, it's an issue of legal conduct being inspected without suspicion of illegality.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Tackleberry1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Kinda making me wish we had upvotes there, Tack. This isn't a long gun v handgun issue, it's an issue of legal conduct being inspected without suspicion of illegality.
    That's what I thought too. Gun type is irrelevant... It's the infringement that concerns me.

    Perhaps Solus will explain his ire?

  11. #11
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    ok, here we go...

    Dayton police said a man walking around with an AK-47 rifle caused concern Friday, but he didn't violate any laws.

    Officers responded shortly before 3 p.m. to North Gettysburg Avenue in the area of James H. McGee Boulevard on reports of a man carrying an assault rifle in public.

    Police said the man had the rifle strapped across his back and did not point it at anyone or threaten others.

    He was not arrested because he didn't break any laws, said Dayton Sgt. Mark Spiers.

    "It's not illegal to possess and carry a firearm," he said. "As long as it's not concealed and he's not discharging it ... If he did point it in a menacing manner that would make it a crime."

    Spiers said the man was not from the area and may have done this simply to draw police response and get attention.

    Officers checked the man's background and found he was not restricted from owning a firearm.

    - See more at: http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-....zizEVLmx.dpuf

    my contention still stands...which centers on the same disdain for the other idiots at starbucks et al., and public places who go out of their way to carry provocative firearms just incite the local citizens to alert police who do an intervention then have the audacity to cry foul screaming 'the police are picking on me' verses john q public OC'g a handgun in their daily lives.

    critical thinking says you also do not know the ethnic (ROM 60% black) social, or economic (ROM $~23K/household) status of the area where a young white idiot who is not from the area wanders with a AK-47 strapped to his back so he can have an adventure.!

    what infringement occurred?

    so wake me when you have an actual citizen who is not stirring up or purposely seeking trouble and confrontation with the locals and police like this idiot, but find me someone who gets into a hassle for OC'g his handgun in public i might exhibit some sympathy and join the crusade. otherwise...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 02-27-2014 at 12:33 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Tackleberry1's Avatar
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    So... Handgun SMART... Long Gun DUMB.

    Got it... Thanks for clearing that up.

    Tack


    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ok, here we go...

    Dayton police said a man walking around with an AK-47 rifle caused concern Friday, but he didn't violate any laws.

    Officers responded shortly before 3 p.m. to North Gettysburg Avenue in the area of James H. McGee Boulevard on reports of a man carrying an assault rifle in public.

    Police said the man had the rifle strapped across his back and did not point it at anyone or threaten others.

    He was not arrested because he didn't break any laws, said Dayton Sgt. Mark Spiers.

    "It's not illegal to possess and carry a firearm," he said. "As long as it's not concealed and he's not discharging it ... If he did point it in a menacing manner that would make it a crime."

    Spiers said the man was not from the area and may have done this simply to draw police response and get attention.

    Officers checked the man's background and found he was not restricted from owning a firearm.

    - See more at: http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-....zizEVLmx.dpuf

    my contention still stands...which centers on the same disdain for the other idiots at starbucks et al., and public places who go out of their way to carry provocative firearms just incite the local citizens to alert police who do an intervention then have the audacity to cry foul screaming 'the police are picking on me' verses john q public OC'g a handgun in their daily lives.

    critical thinking says you also do not know the ethnic (ROM 60% black) social, or economic (ROM $~23K/household) status of the area where a young white idiot who is not from the area wanders with a AK-47 strapped to his back so he can have an adventure.!

    what infringement occurred?

    so wake me when you have an actual citizen who is not stirring up or purposely seeking trouble and confrontation with the locals and police like this idiot, but find me someone who gets into a hassle for OC'g his handgun in public i might exhibit some sympathy and join the crusade. otherwise...

    ipse

  13. #13
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    what infringement occurred?
    Officers checked the man's background and found he was not restricted from owning a firearm. - See more at: Whio.com
    I'm sure the checking of his background was completely consensual, but we don't know one way or the other do we, Solus?
    Do you have some proof it was?

    Would they have "checked his background" had he been carrying another legal item, such as a cellphone?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 02-27-2014 at 01:10 AM.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Long gun carry is off-topic when such is being "promoted." See Rule 14, Forum Rules
    OCDO will not allow extended discussion about long guns - it does distract from our primary mission of defending and promoting the carry of OCd handguns as we go about our everyday lives.

    In this case, I think the primary point that hasn't been made clear is how was the man "checked out" and were there any violations of law in doing so? Stay on that point and the thread will remain open.

    And gentleman, I caution you on the personal insults - they will backfire on you.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-27-2014 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Thanks to TJW815 on OFCC for the initial find

    http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-...-public/ndXyZ/

    Dayton police said a man walking around with an AK-47 rifle caused concern Friday, but he didn't violate any laws.

    Officers responded shortly before 3 p.m. to North Gettysburg Avenue in the area of James H. McGee Boulevard on reports of a man carrying an assault rifle in public.

    Police said the man had the rifle strapped across his back and did not point it at anyone or threaten others.

    He was not arrested because he didn't break any laws, said Dayton Sgt. Mark Spiers.

    "It's not illegal to possess and carry a firearm," he said. "As long as it's not concealed and he's not discharging it ... If he did point it in a menacing manner that would make it a crime."

    Spiers said the man was not from the area and may have done this simply to draw police response and get attention.

    Officers checked the man's background and found he was not restricted from owning a firearm.


    Facebook, lots of positive comments: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...l_comments=233
    Thanks for the story **I** personally found it interesting ...The banter that ensued therein was even better.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Ohioans who dislike or don't know of OFCC and/or its forum.
    How could any self respecting Ohioan "dislike" OFCC?

    That organization has done more for Open Carry than any other group, , , ,

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Three uniforms that we can see, and a plain clothes, may be. Nope, nothing to see here. He was not arrested nor "detained" it seems. I wonder what the cops would have done if the citizen declined to be "checked."

    Sue those cops, though, he consenting mitigates any redress of wrongs, which are clearly evident from the photo.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...In this case, I think the primary point that hasn't been made clear is how was the man "checked out" and were there any violations of law in doing so? Stay on that point and the thread will remain open...
    I don't know what training Dayton officers receive regarding OC, but it would be instructive for someone from that area to do a records request and find that out, as well as asking for a copy of the report which was no doubt written. Was it a consensual stop, were there extenuating circumstances?

    FYI - Dayton has a database for LEOs (at least) to enter information about people. I don't like it, but I'm not the king. Was an entry made in this case? Also FYI - entries can create physical or legal dangers to individuals, for example:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post2037417

    The comment attributed to police, "... the man was not from the area and may have done this simply to draw police response and get attention..." (as reported in the always accurate media ) troubles me.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck! View Post
    How could any self respecting Ohioan "dislike" OFCC?

    That organization has done more for Open Carry than any other group, , , ,
    Chuck, you are so amusing.....
    Last edited by color of law; 02-27-2014 at 08:55 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I'm sure the checking of his background was completely consensual, but we don't know one way or the other do we, Solus?
    Do you have some proof it was?

    Would they have "checked his background" had he been carrying another legal item, such as a cellphone?
    no we don't know those tidbits do we we, Fallschirmjäger! neither of us have proof which could lead to an objective conjecture? so...your point?

    so alas, your perspective is also hyperbole contrived based on a news article (loose choice of words for news article) of the young man (men since there was fotos taken of the encounter - nawlllll it wan't staged, nawlll) carrying his AR 47 into an impoverish and disadvantaged area he is not remotely associated with so they can have their 15m of fame and a war story to tell their friends.

    So...you are telling me, if a young man (or two/.three since they are filming the young man's stroll) whom you unequivocally knew didn't belong in your neighbourhood w/an AK47 slung across their back is seen walking the streets - would you ignore them and let someone else intervene or walk up w/sidearm OC'd and say 'HOWDY' and engage them in conversation to discern their intent in your neighbourhood or notify the local polizei to allow them discern the groups intent?

    let's take the firearm out of the equation and have the same young men wandering your neighbourhood who obviously do not belong...same questions.

    i know the response i would make but do not wish to bias your response...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 02-27-2014 at 09:14 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The cop that has his back to us has his hand on his weapon.

    But, after closer investigation the cops other hand is on his radio.

    No alarm, his pants are falling down.

    Punch that cop's Dunkin Donuts rewards card......

  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    <snip>

    So...you are telling me, if a young man (or two/.three since they are filming the young man's stroll) whom you unequivocally knew didn't belong in your neighbourhood w/an AK47 slung across their back is seen walking the streets - would you ignore them and let someone else intervene or walk up w/sidearm OC'd and say 'HOWDY' and engage them in conversation to discern their intent in your neighbourhood or notify the local polizei to allow them discern the groups intent? <snip>
    At least one logical fallacy, at least.

    If there is no "gun in hand" those cops should not approach. Their own statements prove that the know his behavior is lawful. They want to follow the guy? No law against that. Take the "fifteen minutes of fame" away from the citizen. Do not make contact unless a crime is observed.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    .........

    let's take the firearm out of the equation and have the same young men wandering your neighbourhood who obviously do not belong...same questions.

    i know the response i would make but do not wish to bias your response...

    ipse
    Wandering???????
    Your neighborhood??????
    Who obviously do not belong??????

    I see where you are attempting to drag this thread....

    We are not going there.....

  24. #24
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    interestingly,
    quote: Adam Seaton: That was me that opened carried Dayton police acted apropletly as seen I wasn't illegally disarmed unquote
    quote: Adam Seaton: I was doing a craigslist deal needed for protection I got stabbed and jumped over a car radio in Miami township and same people out ruining street unquote
    quote: Adam Seaton: I'm not old enough for ccw I'm only 18 but new kind of lied for entertainment purposes I was never near a school unquote

    comments accompanying a HS foto w/his 'friend'

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...l_comments=233

    master Seaton also has quite the variety of utube videos...

    btw who is the individual w/their back to the camera? do not believe it is LE but perhaps a friend w/Master Seaton ?

    finally, who called it into WHIO as this would not have warranted a news crew to respond!!

    as stated it was staged to get attention period!
    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 02-27-2014 at 10:09 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    In the facebook comment section.
    Cheryl Howard Adam Seaton you are not exactly correct. You were with in a half mile of 2 elementary schools.Westwood ele. And one on the corner of James H McGee and Gettysburg. You all most caused these 2 schools to go into lock down because of your actions. Also you did cause Weslyan Nature Center to go in lock down. This place holds several after school programs for the youth in that area.
    Cheryl, You are the problem........

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