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Off-duty cop, OCing, shoots, kills firefighter.

ron73440

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Mar 3, 2013
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Suffolk VA
Can't watch the videos, but the article explains the situation, and unless they left something out, I don't see anything that says it isn't justified

Also, a cop in uniform does not count as an OC'er.
 

Stretch

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Pasco, WA, ,
Can't watch the videos, but the article explains the situation, and unless they left something out, I don't see anything that says it isn't justified

Also, a cop in uniform does not count as an OC'er.

It doesn't?

It seems based on witness testimony and the report published, along with the video he was justified in his actions.
 

Alpine

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Aug 10, 2012
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Idaho
The video is pretty damning for the guy who died, he mounted the cop and started beating his face in while onlookers were pleading with him not to.
 

FreeInAZ

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Secret Bunker
We don't see the whole context of the events. It is hard to tell what exactly is going on in the beginning before we see the video? I will say this may have been calmed by the officer deploying OC spray or a taser...both would have required him to yield distance. I see him attempting to jump forward with his full body weight and place his knee/shin down across the mans neck. From there all hell breaks loose. A 200lb weight being dropped towards my neck is going to make me want to move also. This seems to be a escalating series of misjudgements with both parties involved. Just MHO...YMMV.
 
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FreeInAZ

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While I'm not saying the person who fired the shots was wrong - is assault a death sentence crime? I could not see the citizen going for the LEO's gun? If he was fine...but let's think a little before we just OK instantaneous executions being carried out.

Let's put it another way - I see a fellow citizen being beaten in the street, who happens to be wearing a holstered pistol. Can I shoot the attacker and kill him or her or them, if they have not attempted to take said pistol in their hand? Laws vary greatly by state...but as a citizen, I don't think I'd fare too well in a court room and a jury judging me. Police are citizens! A case can be made that they are not held to the same standards as LAC's when it comes to the use of deadly force.

Edit***
The video is confusing - just as the shots are fired you see a person who looks to be in uniform run by the camera. This person did not fire. It's the security guard / LEO on the ground who fired fearing he was going to pass out. This being the case, it becomes a "in fear for my life" issue.

Again, had other options been used such as: following while calling for backup been used I think the firefighter would still be alive. Both parties could have made much better choices IMHO. Glad only one person died and no bystanders or other innocents. :( Sad happenings all around.
 
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Dave_pro2a

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Hubbard, who was working security for the Marriott while wearing his Police Department uniform

Yeah that's the problem.

PRIVATE security GUARD shoots someone who is OFF the PRIVATE property he was hired to guard.

Wrong on so many levels.
 

mikeyb

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Feb 19, 2013
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Bothell
If the article is true to the word, I see no problem.

A non-critical point that some might get hung up on is the off-duty cop wearing his uniform as private security.
 

countryclubjoe

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Mar 3, 2013
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nj
the security guard/cop should go back to training and learn how to apply handcuffs on a suspect... Had the guy been properly cuffed he would probably be alive today... Training, training, training....

CCJ
 

Gallowmere

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Richmond, VA
As much time as I spend running overly aggressive cops through the ringer, for this, I have to say 100% justified. I don't give a damn who you are, if someone has you in that kind of position, beating you about the face, you would have to be a fool to not fire, while you still had a chance.

I see so many factors here that contributed to this turning into what it did, and it really just proves something that all of us here already know. All it takes is a moment of distraction. The situation was clearly never under control, but in that moment that he yelled to the onlookers, he was distracted, lost any advantage that he had, and was taken by surprise, ending up on his back.

Also, at any given point, that cop probably could have hit him with a taser, or enough pepper spray to blister the skin, and wouldn't have faced any repercussions for it. The fact that he didn't, tells me that he was an officer not wanting to use excessive force. It's just sad that this time, not using excessive force, ended with the need for using deadly force.
 

WalkingWolf

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As much time as I spend running overly aggressive cops through the ringer, for this, I have to say 100% justified. I don't give a damn who you are, if someone has you in that kind of position, beating you about the face, you would have to be a fool to not fire, while you still had a chance.

I see so many factors here that contributed to this turning into what it did, and it really just proves something that all of us here already know. All it takes is a moment of distraction. The situation was clearly never under control, but in that moment that he yelled to the onlookers, he was distracted, lost any advantage that he had, and was taken by surprise, ending up on his back.

Also, at any given point, that cop probably could have hit him with a taser, or enough pepper spray to blister the skin, and wouldn't have faced any repercussions for it. The fact that he didn't, tells me that he was an officer not wanting to use excessive force. It's just sad that this time, not using excessive force, ended with the need for using deadly force.

Agree completely!
 

kparker

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Tacoma, Washington, USA
is assault a death sentence crime? ... before we just OK instantaneous executions being carried out.

WHAT??? No, it's not a "death sentence crime", but it's certainly a "justifiable case of self-defense crime". And NO again, killing someone in self-defense is NOT an execution. Words have meaning.


Laws vary greatly by state...

Actually in this particular arena, they don't. About all you can say is some states have Stand Your Ground by statute, some have it by case law (basically the situation here in WA), and some have a degree of duty-to-retreat. But I defy you to find a single state where protecting yourself against serious bodily harm isn't a justification for using lethal force.
 

ron73440

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Suffolk VA
It doesn't?

It seems based on witness testimony and the report published, along with the video he was justified in his actions.

A cop in uniform, even off duty is not the same as a person OC'ing as they go about their daily business.

The title makes it look like he was OC'ing unrelaed to being a cop, when in fact he was providing security in his uniform.
 

Dave_pro2a

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WHAT??? No, it's not a "death sentence crime", but it's certainly a "justifiable case of self-defense crime". And NO again, killing someone in self-defense is NOT an execution.

Whut? Assault is grounds for justifiable self defense?

That cabbie should not have assaulted* the female passenger by throwing something in her face, resulting in her husband beating the cabbie in the face.

So the cop killed a guy who was defending his wife.


*Throw something in a cops face and you're pretty much guaranteed an assault charge, be it a dollar bill, an empty starbucks cup, a baseball hat, etc.
 
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